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Old
05-16-2012, 10:48 AM
  #51
SIDGENO8771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Toronto Trades
Luke Schenn
5th Overall

Philadelphia
James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
2012 3rd and 4th Rounders
2013 2nd rounder

Philadelphia is then guaranteed either galchenyuk, grigs, forsberg, or murray for a large improvement either on the blue line, or to ultimately replace jvr's production. This makes a guy like simmonds or voracek become more expendable if need be. Schenn can be a good 4/5th defenseman for us next year making a major signing like suter less neccesary. we also save some cap space for the time being.

With their 20th pick the flyers pick slater koekkoek.

Before im ripped to shreds, here is my honest explanation: We had come to a fairly mutual agreement that a healthy JVR= Luke Schenn + 2nd. Having said that, Bob, and those three picks, along with the extra imbalance from jvr's value evens things out.

Thoughts?
You wont get 5th overall for that package.

Schenn + Couturier

for

Schenn + 2012 5th

much closer

We dont want JVR- the most overrated player on HF, he is useless, soft, and overpaid

And if u guys say that Schenn sucks then why do u want him on Philly so bad?

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Old
05-16-2012, 10:50 AM
  #52
Bourne Endeavor
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Yes, let's give Philadelphia another dynamic young rookie, because they never make good use of them.

What, the fifth overall is an unknown? Well he may not be dynamic yet but when he gets to Philly, he will be. Just how they roll.

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Old
05-16-2012, 11:17 AM
  #53
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ok, so heres the thing; with JVR and Bob we have an established level of ability at the NHL level. They have both shown they may be something more, but at the very least need more time to develop into that. This holds true for Schenn as well.
However, the #5 pick the leafs could be getting the next Couturier, B. Schenn, or possibly someone that turns into Kessel, or Backstrom, or if its a D Pietrangelo.
Fact is, the #5 holds more value than any single piece in this trade proposal, because these are the expectations.

If JVR and Bobroski need time to mature anyhow, why does toronto not just hang onto the #5 and let whoever they select develop in a similar time frame?

Imagine, grigorenko available at 5? considered by some to be the best player in this draft class, with some kinks to work out of course.

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Old
05-16-2012, 11:31 AM
  #54
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If Burke trades the 5th overall pick for a player that isn't a number #1 centre, Leafs fans will burn the Air Canada Centre to the ground.

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Old
05-16-2012, 11:34 AM
  #55
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kulemin + Schenn + 2nd (34th)
for
Vanrymsdyk + Bobrovsky

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:02 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
You wont get 5th overall for that package.

Schenn + Couturier

for

Schenn + 2012 5th

much closer

We dont want JVR- the most overrated player on HF, he is useless, soft, and overpaid

And if u guys say that Schenn sucks then why do u want him on Philly so bad?
What type of parallel universe did the maple leafs disappear into since 2004? You need to be more realistic with your demands. Jeff carter netted jake voracek and a 7th overall.

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:09 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
kulemin + Schenn + 2nd (34th)
for
Vanrymsdyk + Bobrovsky

why do we do this?

Bob wouldnt even be the clear starter... and thats too much for JVR



Quote:
Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
What type of parallel universe did the maple leafs disappear into since 2004? You need to be more realistic with your demands. Jeff carter netted jake voracek and a 7th overall.
i agree its terrible but you're not actually comparing Jeff Carter to JVR are you?

Carter averaged 70 points the previous 3 seasons before that deal went down and had 115 goals in that time frame...

JVR is no where near that level so if you expecting a roster player and a high pick for him... dont hold your breath.

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:10 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
kulemin + Schenn + 2nd (34th)
for
Vanrymsdyk + Bobrovsky
I think that's probably fair value--maybe the Flyers toss in a 4th.

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:33 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
JVR is no where near that level so if you expecting a roster player and a high pick for him... dont hold your breath.
And don't expect anything for Luke Schenn who was 7th in average ice time for defenseman on the 2nd worst defensive team in the league. If coaches don't trust you on the ice for a bottom 5 team what good team will want you? And it's his 4th year in the league.

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:41 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
why do we do this?

Bob wouldnt even be the clear starter... and thats too much for JVR
I understand....i just came up with that quick.

JVR and Kule have ALOT of untapped talent.

Schenn has had an off year, But i still like his potential.

I still have faith in Reimer, but adding some competent fresh blood who can step in whenever and is still young and improving.

It should be close. Philly may need to sweeten it a bit.


or:
Kule + Schenn + 3rd
for
JVR + Bob

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Old
05-16-2012, 01:45 PM
  #61
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
I understand....i just came up with that quick.

JVR and Kule have ALOT of untapped talent.

Schenn has had an off year, But i still like his potential.

I still have faith in Reimer, but adding some competent fresh blood who can step in whenever and is still young and improving.

It should be close. Philly may need to sweeten it a bit.


or:
Kule + Schenn + 3rd
for
JVR + Bob
JVR, Bob, 4th

for

Kulemin, Schenn, 2nd.


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Old
05-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
You wont get 5th overall for that package.

Schenn + Couturier

for

Schenn + 2012 5th

much closer

We dont want JVR- the most overrated player on HF, he is useless, soft, and overpaid

And if u guys say that Schenn sucks then why do u want him on Philly so bad?
You do realize that it's JVR to Toronto threads that continually pop up (along with Burke is after JVR speculation), not L.Schenn to Philadelphia threads, right?

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Old
05-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
i agree its terrible but you're not actually comparing Jeff Carter to JVR are you?

Carter averaged 70 points the previous 3 seasons before that deal went down and had 115 goals in that time frame...

JVR is no where near that level so if you expecting a roster player and a high pick for him... dont hold your breath.
The trade he quoted didn't even have JVR in it.

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Old
05-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
You do realize that it's JVR to Toronto threads that continually pop up (along with Burke is after JVR speculation), not L.Schenn to Philadelphia threads, right?
Also because Luke Schenn sort of fills a need for the Flyers as a stay at home, hard hitting type of d-man. Now that Grossmann is signed long term that really isn't as pressing of a need as it used to be. In fact it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to dangle a guy like JVR for a d-man that in all likelihood would end up on our 3rd pairing.

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Old
05-16-2012, 02:34 PM
  #65
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No from the Leafs. If they were willing to trade a package like that it would be for a legit #1 Centre OR a #1 goalie. Nothing else.

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Old
05-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Younghockey94 View Post
No from the Leafs. If they were willing to trade a package like that it would be for a legit #1 Centre OR a #1 goalie. Nothing else.
I'm not sure which proposal you are referring to, but none of the ones in this thread get you anywhere close to an established 1C or 1A goalie...

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Old
05-16-2012, 03:20 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
You do realize that it's JVR to Toronto threads that continually pop up (along with Burke is after JVR speculation), not L.Schenn to Philadelphia threads, right?
You do realize that it was a Philly fan that started this thread. Right?

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05-16-2012, 03:23 PM
  #68
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Wasn't the difference between JVR and Schenn earlier a smaller piece (2nd or something)?

How is the Bob + 2nd and 3rd worth a top 5 pick?

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Old
05-16-2012, 03:24 PM
  #69
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Wouldn't touch this. TOR needs to keep the 5th overall, or package it in a better deal.

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Old
05-16-2012, 04:15 PM
  #70
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Couterier + JVR

for

5th overall + Schenn + 2nd in 2013


Only way Philly gets ahold of 5th overall. Don't like it? Tough

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Old
05-16-2012, 04:20 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Couterier + JVR

for

5th overall + Schenn + 2nd in 2013


Only way Philly gets ahold of 5th overall. Don't like it? Tough
It is always hard to take posters seriously when they do things like this, but...

In abstract terms, the value is probably reasonably close; in practice, it is a pretty bad deal for the Flyers.

JVR = Schenn + 2nd,but Couturier has already played a full NHL season at 18, and it is far from clear that Forsberg or Grigorenko or whoever drops to 5 will be as good as he is and will be in the future. THe Flyers take all the risk for a short-term downgrade with no real future reward.

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Old
05-16-2012, 04:28 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
It is always hard to take posters seriously when they do things like this, but...

In abstract terms, the value is probably reasonably close; in practice, it is a pretty bad deal for the Flyers.

JVR = Schenn + 2nd,but Couturier has already played a full NHL season at 18, and it is far from clear that Forsberg or Grigorenko or whoever drops to 5 will be as good as he is and will be in the future. THe Flyers take all the risk for a short-term downgrade with no real future reward.
Schenn + Leafs 2nd (35th overall) >> JVR

JVR = disappointment. Concussion, lowers value. 24 points? 2 in the playoffs? 40 point career high? 4.5 million??

I'll keep Schenn. JVR has to raise his play night in and night out more than Schenn does.

So yeah on the Couturier part. But let's not pretend Couturier has played himself into the top 6 and is a sure fire star. A good pick by the Leafs at 5 overall and 27 points as a rookie is hardly a stretch -- Forsberg can duplicate that.

Bottom line Leafs are MUCH better off status quo than touching the original proposal.

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Old
05-16-2012, 05:13 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Toronto Trades
Luke Schenn
5th Overall

Philadelphia
James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
2012 3rd and 4th Rounders
2013 2nd rounder

Philadelphia is then guaranteed either galchenyuk, grigs, forsberg, or murray for a large improvement either on the blue line, or to ultimately replace jvr's production. This makes a guy like simmonds or voracek become more expendable if need be. Schenn can be a good 4/5th defenseman for us next year making a major signing like suter less neccesary. we also save some cap space for the time being.

With their 20th pick the flyers pick slater koekkoek.

Before im ripped to shreds, here is my honest explanation: We had come to a fairly mutual agreement that a healthy JVR= Luke Schenn + 2nd. Having said that, Bob, and those three picks, along with the extra imbalance from jvr's value evens things out.

Thoughts?
Leafs say no!

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:22 PM
  #74
NitHeel
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
You do realize that it was a Philly fan that started this thread. Right?
The main asset in the deal was the #5 pick but yes, I do realize that. The implication made wasn't that the OP was a Flyer fan, it was that Flyers fans keep coming back trying desperately to get Luke Schenn in different threads rather then people clamoring for JVR. That's not the case, this thread being the exception.

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:25 PM
  #75
SIDGENO8771
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Schenn + Leafs 2nd (35th overall) >> JVR

JVR = disappointment. Concussion, lowers value. 24 points? 2 in the playoffs? 40 point career high? 4.5 million??

I'll keep Schenn. JVR has to raise his play night in and night out more than Schenn does.

So yeah on the Couturier part. But let's not pretend Couturier has played himself into the top 6 and is a sure fire star. A good pick by the Leafs at 5 overall and 27 points as a rookie is hardly a stretch -- Forsberg can duplicate that.

Bottom line Leafs are MUCH better off status quo than touching the original proposal.
I hope its Galy.

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