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Old
05-13-2012, 05:27 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Thanks for the insight. Looks like Isayenko is really the only guy who will be there long-term though as he's the only one south of 30. I'm interested to know more about him. What kind of game does he play? Is he a future bottom 6/depth player or does he have top 6 KHL potential?
Probably every Donbass Ukrainian will be an ineffective bottom six player.

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05-16-2012, 07:18 AM
  #177
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Any news regarding this team? Has Donetsk made any move to sign Toryanik or Ramazanov? Both look like they may have KHL potential and are still young enough to be developed.

If this team is a success, what are the chances that Kiev gets a KHL team? Does Ukraine have enough KHL calibur players to be able to field at least 5 Ukrainians to each team, with Fedotenko, Ponikarovsky, Razin and Kasyanchuk playing elsewhere?

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05-16-2012, 09:51 AM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Any news regarding this team? Has Donetsk made any move to sign Toryanik or Ramazanov? Both look like they may have KHL potential and are still young enough to be developed.

If this team is a success, what are the chances that Kiev gets a KHL team? Does Ukraine have enough KHL calibur players to be able to field at least 5 Ukrainians to each team, with Fedotenko, Ponikarovsky, Razin and Kasyanchuk playing elsewhere?
I'm not sure what defines a successful club in the KHL in your eyes but I do think that Ukraine's chances of getting a second team are increased by the fact that the first one is in Donetsk and not in the capital, because IMO KHL are not that keen (putting it mildly) on having non-Russian teams in regional cities (that said Donetsk isn't that small to begin with).

I'm not sure anyone is capable of answering the remaining questions you are wondering about with anything but pretty wild speculations.

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05-16-2012, 02:20 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Any news regarding this team? Has Donetsk made any move to sign Toryanik or Ramazanov? Both look like they may have KHL potential and are still young enough to be developed.

If this team is a success, what are the chances that Kiev gets a KHL team? Does Ukraine have enough KHL calibur players to be able to field at least 5 Ukrainians to each team, with Fedotenko, Ponikarovsky, Razin and Kasyanchuk playing elsewhere?
I think there are good chances. I'm sure Sokil wanted to join with them being the top club and all, and always playing in better leagues like BOL or VHL. They couldnt make the jump but just might get enough inspiration to get actively pursuing it. Last year there was Budivelnyk Kiev that was close but fell through last minute because of arena problems. I think interest for a Kiev KHL team is more or less there, and with a successful team like Donbass setting an amazing example might make people get serious. I think Ukraine can sustain 2 KHL teams and eventually (10 yrs) have some new home-grown talent on it. I hear Donbass has a strong 98 class so they are 14 now and will be in their mid twenties in 10 yrs. The PHL getting better is a strong positive as well since that creates better players too and sparks hockey interest in the country.

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05-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #180
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Quote:
I hear Donbass has a strong 98 class so they are 14 now and will be in their mid twenties in 10 yrs.
swedish coach Jim Brithen is working with them. You can find interesting articles with him at Donbass website. Kids played tourney in Stockholm during april, were 2nd or so.

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05-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by yunost View Post
I think Ukraine can sustain 2 KHL teams
If there's enough willing owners who can piss away at least 10 M$ per year, Ukraine can sustain hundred KHL clubs. Even if there would multiple Kiev-sized cities in the Ukraine, it's all about the ownership and not any other variable.

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05-16-2012, 03:49 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
If there's enough willing owners who can piss away at least 10 M$ per year, Ukraine can sustain hundred KHL clubs. Even if there would multiple Kiev-sized cities in the Ukraine, it's all about the ownership and not any other variable.
The money right now is in Donetsk. That's why they have a team. There aren't any big oligarchs based in Kiev.

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05-16-2012, 04:00 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The money right now is in Donetsk. That's why they have a team. There aren't any big oligarchs based in Kiev.
That's not the point of my post.

But surely there are more than enough oligarchs in Kiev (they doesn't even have to have such a deep pockets like Kolesnikov have), they simply doesn't care for the hockey. Soccer is the name of the game in the city. Knowing that the budget of no name soccer team in Latvia has a budget of 2-4M $, it's easy to speculate that budgets of each Kiev's three soccer teams are at least three times as big. And I don't even want to think how unholy huge is the budget of Dynamo alone.

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05-16-2012, 04:21 PM
  #184
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Dynamo aren't being funded as a pet project like Shakhtar are. They are relatively self funded. Sokil would have a tough time making the dynamo model profitable. They'd néed an owner to fund the entire project and Kiev doesn't have people like Akhmetov that want to buy off those he stole from.

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05-16-2012, 07:41 PM
  #185
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who needs Obolon' or Arsenal??? fold one - there's your money for Sokol.

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05-17-2012, 09:58 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The money right now is in Donetsk. That's why they have a team. There aren't any big oligarchs based in Kiev.
Not entirely true. I mean, Kolomoisky is from Dnipropetrovsk but he wanted to get the team (Budivelnyk) in Kiev - he said he didn't want the team in Dnipro, only Kiev. There are a bunch of oligarchs in Dnipro as well, but I doubt it gets a team.

Kolesnik, owner of Donbas...he's from Donetsk and has the team there, but lives in Kiev

so yeah, the money comes from the oligarch groups in other cities, but in the end they wind up in the capital, and it's the next logical place to blow some cash on a team

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05-17-2012, 10:01 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
Not entirely true. I mean, Kolomoisky is from Dnipropetrovsk but he wanted to get the team (Budivelnyk) in Kiev - he said he didn't want the team in Dnipro, only Kiev.

Kolesnik, owner of Donbas...he's from Donetsk and has the team there, but lives in Kiev

so yeah, the money comes from the oligarch groups in other cities, but in the end they wind up in the capital, and it's the next logical place to blow some cash on a team
The guys from Dnipro I could see putting a team in Kiev. They are on the losing end right now in their rivalry with the Donetsk clan. Could be a starting point to try and win the loyalty in Kiev. Problem is most people in Kiev don't think the same way as in Donetsk. In Donetsk they feel loyalty to the oligarchs because they clean the city up. I guess it doesn't matter that they stole your money to do it. People in Kharkov wish they had their own Akhmetov.

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05-17-2012, 10:20 AM
  #188
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I guess that's what happens when you live your whole life surrounded by propaganda *sigh*

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05-20-2012, 09:32 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
the current 6 Ukes are: Liutkevych, Isayenko, Donika, Materukhin, Shafarenko, Varlamov
Well Shafarenko's (and Oseledets too) picture has been pulled from Donbass website. Does it means anything, hard to tell.

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05-20-2012, 09:36 PM
  #190
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Laco just got awarded best goaltender in the WCs

really loving this signing!

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05-21-2012, 09:59 AM
  #191
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HCD signs Erik Ersberg and Petteri Wirtanen

http://www.hcdonbass.com/home/news/news/18447?lang=ru

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05-21-2012, 03:09 PM
  #192
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Any word on what the structure of Ukrainian hockey will take since Donetsk will officially play in the KHL? From what I gather, most people on here doubt that a team will advance to the VHL to take over and act as a farm club for Donbass, but Donbass-2 will instead play in the Ukrainian league. However, what will happen as far as junior ranks are concerned? Will an MHL and MHL-B team be created or just one or will they not create anything like that?

IMO they need to have a natural progression. Maybe have a MHL-B team for their weaker prospects, MHL team for their best prospects, and when those players graduate they can play in the Ukrainian league until they're ready for the KHL.

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05-21-2012, 03:15 PM
  #193
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As I know, Donbass-2 (ukrainian league) will consist of young players (cca 21 years + a few older). Main team will be in KHL. I did not hear about MHL/ MHL B team for next season, but IMO Donbass will create MHL/MHL B team in near future.

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05-22-2012, 03:50 AM
  #194
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Donbas-2 acting as a farm team is the best solution. A VHL team would be pointless.

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05-22-2012, 05:45 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
Donbas-2 acting as a farm team is the best solution. A VHL team would be pointless.
i disagree, the the level of PHL is lower than RSL, any weackest VHL team wouldn't loose a game in PHL. How are you going to develop players for KHL in such a league is beyond me.

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05-22-2012, 09:49 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
i disagree, the the level of PHL is lower than RSL, any weackest VHL team wouldn't loose a game in PHL. How are you going to develop players for KHL in such a league is beyond me.
we're comparing MHL to PHL, not VHL to PHL

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05-22-2012, 10:53 AM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
we're comparing MHL to PHL, not VHL to PHL
MHL-A is miles above PHL. and aren't you the one saying VHL team is pointless....get your stuff straight!


Last edited by cska78: 05-22-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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05-22-2012, 11:29 AM
  #198
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I said having a second farm team in the VHL would be pointless

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05-22-2012, 11:31 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
I said having a second farm team in the VHL would be pointless
I understood that you mean Donbass-2 in PHL is good enough, no need to have a VHL team at all...my bet if I had misunderstood.

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05-22-2012, 12:26 PM
  #200
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yeah, I mean, have D2 in the PHL until they are set up to enter that team into the MHL

but having a VHL team of adult players, in addition to likely having a PHL team of adult players....4 teams? Just seems like overkill

Major, minor, and junior. Perfect scenario.

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