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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

General Talk '12 — Russia

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Old
05-14-2012, 09:26 PM
  #301
DegenX
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
This is so wrong to bring Ovechkin and Semin right now on so many levels. Let me list them:

1. Chemistry right now is undeniable. The team gelled really well, why play with it now?

2. Ovechkin never performed well for team Russia on any levels. He is easily shut down by top defensive teams. The only important goal he scored for team Russia which I remember was in 2006 versus Canada. That was more than 6 years ago. One can say that he dished an assist to Semin against Canada in 2008 final but it was just an assist.

3. Ovechkin and Malkin on the same team have never been successful.

4. The only time Ovechkin won anything was when he was playing secondary roles on team Russia.

5. Every time team Russia relied on him as an offensive weapon team Russia failed (2005 Juniors, bunch of WC's)

6. Travelling to Europe from North America is much tougher than travelling from Europe to North America due to time change going ahead, which is my own observation. Russia's NHL'ers who joined team Russia on short notice after NHL playoffs rarely perform well for some exceptions (Kovalchuk and Bryzgalov in 2009).

7. How invested can both Semin and Ovechkin be after these playoffs? Sometimes people are just spent and there is nothing can help outside of long rest.

8. Both Ovechkin and Semin showed below average average speed. I thought they were the slowest players on the whole Caps roster. I can't stand watching Ovechkin who without the puck just stops skating, that is what allows him to play those long shifts, his work output is just nowhere close to an average NHLer. Any player on team Russia right now has been working hard, I do not believe Ovechkin can match that.
But can they really not invite the Alexes? Or not play either of them if they accept?

I know it was said by some in the media that Bryzgalov got a phone call but not an invitation, but it was still reported that he declined. Big difference though between Bryz and Ovi.

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05-14-2012, 10:11 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
This is so wrong to bring Ovechkin and Semin right now on so many levels. Let me list them:

1. Chemistry right now is undeniable. The team gelled really well, why play with it now?

2. Ovechkin never performed well for team Russia on any levels. He is easily shut down by top defensive teams. The only important goal he scored for team Russia which I remember was in 2006 versus Canada. That was more than 6 years ago. One can say that he dished an assist to Semin against Canada in 2008 final but it was just an assist.

3. Ovechkin and Malkin on the same team have never been successful.

4. The only time Ovechkin won anything was when he was playing secondary roles on team Russia.

5. Every time team Russia relied on him as an offensive weapon team Russia failed (2005 Juniors, bunch of WC's)
1. I haven't watched all WC games, but I had the impression that Team Russia plays with 1.5 lines that can score. Yes, Malkin is awesome, and his line is on fire, but Datsyuk is struggling mightily, and the only guy who produces on the second line is Kuznetsov. The fourth line, on the other hand, combined for 0 points in 7 games, which included playing against Italy and Denmark.

2. Yes, the old coach seemed to have been clueless on how to use Ovechkin. When he imported the whole Caps line (Ovechkin-Fedorov-Semin), Ovechkin produced very well (6g+6a in 9gp in 2008, 4 gwg in the preliminary stage in 2010). Otherwise, it seemed that neither Ovechkin nor his partners had a clue. In 2011, it was painful to see how many good passes from Ovechkin were wasted, and how many times he did not get the puck in a good position. In 2007, Ovechkin played on the fourth line, and that's after being the best LW in NHL for two seasons. Let's hope coach Bill does have a clue on how to use Ovechkin.

4,5 - Ovechkin's only WC gold came in 2008, when his line (Ovechkin-Fedorov-Semin) was easily the best one on the team. They had 12 points each and were +11 each, which is pretty insane (how about this poor D by Ovechkin and Semin, yeah). In the playoffs that year, Ovechkin collected 4 pts and assisted on Kovalchuk's GWG in the final.

Overall, I think that Ovechkin+Semin for the playoffs is a bet. We will see how it plays out, but we will never be able to know whether they fit with the team etc., because three games is too small sample.
I think this bet is a reasonable one to take, because the Russian D and goalies seem rather good, but half of the offense comes from Malkin. If things get tight, I can see Team Russia needing a goal or two from someone not named Malkin.

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Old
05-15-2012, 12:32 AM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
This is so wrong to bring Ovechkin and Semin right now on so many levels. Let me list them:

1. Chemistry right now is undeniable. The team gelled really well, why play with it now?

2. Ovechkin never performed well for team Russia on any levels. He is easily shut down by top defensive teams. The only important goal he scored for team Russia which I remember was in 2006 versus Canada. That was more than 6 years ago. One can say that he dished an assist to Semin against Canada in 2008 final but it was just an assist.

3. Ovechkin and Malkin on the same team have never been successful.

4. The only time Ovechkin won anything was when he was playing secondary roles on team Russia.

5. Every time team Russia relied on him as an offensive weapon team Russia failed (2005 Juniors, bunch of WC's)

6. Travelling to Europe from North America is much tougher than travelling from Europe to North America due to time change going ahead, which is my own observation. Russia's NHL'ers who joined team Russia on short notice after NHL playoffs rarely perform well for some exceptions (Kovalchuk and Bryzgalov in 2009).

7. How invested can both Semin and Ovechkin be after these playoffs? Sometimes people are just spent and there is nothing can help outside of long rest.

8. Both Ovechkin and Semin showed below average average speed. I thought they were the slowest players on the whole Caps roster. I can't stand watching Ovechkin who without the puck just stops skating, that is what allows him to play those long shifts, his work output is just nowhere close to an average NHLer. Any player on team Russia right now has been working hard, I do not believe Ovechkin can match that.
Now let me give the good reasons, to counter your points:

1. Only Malkin's line has really been producing, just check the stats. Only 1 line has REAL chemistry, everyone else gets by OK. Ovi joining could make 2 HIT lines, and 2 Holding lines

2.Ovechkin NEEDS to learn how to perform for Russia before the Olympics. Better do it now, figure out where he belongs, get the **** working. Because Russia needs him in the Olympics and by then it'll be too late!

3.Ovi and Malkin defeated Cze in the Olympics. They can work on the same team. Don't know where you got that myth from..

4.Kovy, before 2008 was always questionable. If they told him to stay home he would never score the tying and winning goals for Russia. They NEED to get the same out of Ovi. He can start now..

5.See above

6. Syomin is a weapon if used properly

7. Bill and the coaching staff have proven to be amazing so far. If anyone can make this work, its them.


Yes, it's a bet. It's a bet that NEEDS to be done. These players are key players and Russia has no choice but to make it work with these two. Because if they do- watch the **** out!!!

Imagine what a machine the Russian team can be if they get Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Syomin and Kuznetsov all playing at their best by Olympics.

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05-15-2012, 08:31 AM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Imagine what a machine the Russian team can be if they get Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Syomin and Kuznetsov all playing at their best by Olympics.
Yes, and hopefully Radulov, Tarasenko, Voynov, Kulikov, Orlov, Chudinov, Varlamov and maybe Yakupov.

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05-15-2012, 10:23 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
I think it would be crazy to put Semin and Oveckhin in the top line right off the bat. I haven`t watched the chemistry, but I would put each of them individually in separate lines 2-3 or put them in the 3rd line. ? Considering Russia seems to be doing fine.
No doubt, there is some risk to team chemistry, but for me, the risk is worth it. You always have to go with the best players available, and Ovechkin and Semin are both talented and highly experienced in pressure situations. To me, Ovechkin is always a plus for team chemistry, because he would literally go through a wall to win. When Semin is at the top of his game, he can be brilliant.

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Old
05-15-2012, 11:09 AM
  #306
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Wasn't 2008 in NA rink? Or did the use international size rink there?

edit. Found it, they used NHL size rink.

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05-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by CSKA View Post
If Bil thinks the same way as you ....than goodbay Russia
Well he does think the same way as me, just as any sane coach would.

Ovie and Semin on line #2.

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05-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #308
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tomorrow: Varlamov between the pipes
http://allhockey.ru/news/123488/

some pictures from the training:



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Old
05-16-2012, 06:04 PM
  #309
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Any word on practice lines from today?

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05-16-2012, 06:08 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Night_Vole View Post
Any word on practice lines from today?
Popov-Malkin-Perezhogin
Ovechkin-Datsyuk-Syomin
Shirokov-Tereshenko-Zherdev
Kulyomin-Svitov-Kuznetsov

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05-16-2012, 09:44 PM
  #311
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Pumped to see Varly

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05-17-2012, 12:12 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Ovechkin: We're going to hang out here by the red line Pav, you just get us the puck.

Datsyuk: Whaa?

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05-17-2012, 07:55 AM
  #313
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Ovechkin with the capitals helmet?

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:12 AM
  #314
InjuredChoker
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Didn't see the game, how did Ovy-Dats-Semin work out?

Congrats for the win and gl for the next game. Hoping for a thriller.

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05-18-2012, 10:53 PM
  #315
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Since I'm relying on Google Translate, I have a question for those who speak Russian, if you'd be so kind ...

There seem to be complaints regarding the hospitality of the Swedish hosts? Something about the food? And the hosts refusing to do any laundry after the last game ... that Finland was now the Russian teams hosts and they could wash their uniforms? And also mixing up the Russian and Czech equipment trunks?

Are these standard complaints? Something the media likes to make a big deal of? Something that happens all the time? Just seems a pretty ****** way to host a tournament ...

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Old
05-19-2012, 12:32 AM
  #316
Acallabeth
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Well, our guys had some complaints - building process at a building near the hotel (when it happened during Summit Series in 1972, it was a biiig deal), small rooms, low quality food. Spartan conditions. But they didn't pay much attention to that, so I don't think we should either.

They didn't mix it up, they just had to send Russian equipment in 2 different planes due to Russian being overweight (Tarasenko ), and didn't deliver Kalinin's and Ketov's stuff in time (late 15 min). Now that's a serious fail!

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05-19-2012, 07:47 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
Well, our guys had some complaints - building process at a building near the hotel (when it happened during Summit Series in 1972, it was a biiig deal), small rooms, low quality food. Spartan conditions. But they didn't pay much attention to that, so I don't think we should either.

They didn't mix it up, they just had to send Russian equipment in 2 different planes due to Russian being overweight (Tarasenko ), and didn't deliver Kalinin's and Ketov's stuff in time (late 15 min). Now that's a serious fail!
Ahhh ... thanks

And Tarasenko is just getting ready for life in the American Midwest


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Old
05-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #318
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Loved the way Malkin played. The best player in the world right now. First player since Gretzky about thirty years back to lead NHL and WHC in scoring. Wish this guy was Canadian. Maybe Hockey Canada could have a private conversation with him, bribe him to become a Canadian, give up his Russian Citizenship, so he can one day play with Crosby. Love the way he played in this tournament and all year with the Penguins.

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05-19-2012, 03:09 PM
  #319
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Any word about Malkin's condition for tomorrow's game?

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Old
05-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
Loved the way Malkin played. The best player in the world right now. First player since Gretzky about thirty years back to lead NHL and WHC in scoring. Wish this guy was Canadian. Maybe Hockey Canada could have a private conversation with him, bribe him to become a Canadian, give up his Russian Citizenship, so he can one day play with Crosby. Love the way he played in this tournament and all year with the Penguins.
Even if he becomes Canadian he wont be able to represent Canada as he already played for Russia. Not only is there a -100% he goes and becomes Canadian but upon hearing this idea he will take a huge dump and hand it other to the beavers as his opinion.

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05-19-2012, 03:19 PM
  #321
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Even if he becomes Canadian he wont be able to represent Canada as he already played for Russia. Not only is there a -100% he goes and becomes Canadian but upon hearing this idea he will take a huge dump and hand it other to the beavers as his opinion.
Wait, there's a something like a 4 year rule of playing in the country, bla-bla. Look at Nedved

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05-19-2012, 07:46 PM
  #322
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yep, 4-year rule

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05-19-2012, 07:48 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Ovechkin: We're going to hang out here by the red line Pav, you just get us the puck.

Datsyuk: Whaa?
I lol'ed

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