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I cant stand Jeff Carter

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Old
05-16-2012, 06:24 PM
  #101
Amateur Hour
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
i hate all other teams but the Flyers. I know players come and go and all it really is is a soap opera but there's no way i could root for old players who couldn't win a cup here to win one elsewhere. i have too much emotionally invested in the orange and black. it is stupid i know but i only root for teams to lose. this years team for me is the kings. I hope the rangers beat em good.
You sound like you're a ****ing miserable person. Also, how you could ever root for the Rangers to win anything is beyond me.

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05-16-2012, 06:35 PM
  #102
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carter is a bum.

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05-16-2012, 07:05 PM
  #103
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I don't mind Carter. I always thought he wasn't given enough credit for his goal scoring ability.

I would be happy for the former flyers to win a Cup. Plus, it helps Hextall's resume for when Holmgren retires and he (hopefully replaces him.

However, I don't want folks saying that the Flyers were hosed by trading them both. Even if we undid the trades, we would not have been any better this year, and could very well have lost to the Pens in the first round.

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05-16-2012, 07:14 PM
  #104
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I don't mind Carter. I always thought he wasn't given enough credit for his goal scoring ability.

I would be happy for the former flyers to win a Cup. Plus, it helps Hextall's resume for when Holmgren retires and he (hopefully replaces him.

However, I don't want folks saying that the Flyers were hosed by trading them both. Even if we undid the trades, we would not have been any better this year, and could very well have lost to the Pens in the first round.
The only thing we do know is the Kings got proven players. Richards is pretty much the same as always but Carter is still improving in some areas. The future looks promising in Philly but will they be able to afford all these young guys? You have to figure Voracek and Simmonds are looking for a big payday. JvR got $4.25 million/year for 6 years and for what? Voracek is likely going to expect the same and Simmonds, too. Will they end up leaving because of money? Right now it's win/win for both sides. Kings fans have more to be delerious about because they weren't expecting this so soon. Flyers fans have the future to look forward to.

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05-16-2012, 07:18 PM
  #105
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Fun fact. Those that shoot the most miss the net the most.

In addition, he was traded for someone just as "high and wide" (Voracek).
Ha! I'm happy he even shots the freakin puck. I don't think he is the new "high and wide" guy, he just can't even shot the puck. I love Voracek though lol. He just really needs to work on that shot of his.

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I so badly wanted Voynov in the Richards deal. He's a total stud.
I said before that the Flyers were interested in him in the deal. The kings gave them a choice I believe, it was Schenn or Voynov that the deal was to be around. The Flyers choose Schenn I guess because they like his upside more than Voynov. I believe it was Bob Mckenzie who tweeted about the Flyers interest in him.

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05-16-2012, 07:35 PM
  #106
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The only thing we do know is the Kings got proven players. Richards is pretty much the same as always but Carter is still improving in some areas. The future looks promising in Philly but will they be able to afford all these young guys? You have to figure Voracek and Simmonds are looking for a big payday. JvR got $4.25 million/year for 6 years and for what? Voracek is likely going to expect the same and Simmonds, too. Will they end up leaving because of money? Right now it's win/win for both sides. Kings fans have more to be delerious about because they weren't expecting this so soon. Flyers fans have the future to look forward to.
This group reminds me so much of the team that went to the conference finals under Stevens. There was a ton of talent on that team that a lot of fans were looking forward to watching grow, but other things got in the way. Who's to say the same fate won't meet this club? Hartnell and Coburn are the only young players from that team who's still here.

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05-16-2012, 07:42 PM
  #107
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OMG I love this post. You brought up Bobby Abreu. So you don't know hockey and you don't know baseball. Awesome.

There is no such thing as a hollow stat. 30 goals are 30 goals. They aren't worth any less because you don't like the player scoring them.
You don't think some stats are misleading? you don't think that guys that score less than carter are more valuable to a team?

ovechkin scores a ton of goals and the caps had their best playoff in years when he was barely on the ice. Is he valuable? Ofcourse he is but I don't think he is as valuable as his stats suggest.

Most of the time I feel carter is the type to pile on the scoring when the game is already decided but turtle up when the game is still up in the air.

As for Abreu, he has very good stats but when you looked at him play the game did you think you were watching a hall of famer? If so, you must of been watching a different game then the rest of us.

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05-16-2012, 07:42 PM
  #108
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Flyers fans have the future to look forward to.
Once again, you mean.

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05-16-2012, 07:44 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
This group reminds me so much of the team that went to the conference finals under Stevens. There was a ton of talent on that team that a lot of fans were looking forward to watching grow, but other things got in the way. Who's to say the same fate won't meet this club? Hartnell and Coburn are the only young players from that team who's still here.
This is a good observation. I actually think it is a great comparison. Lets just hope that the outcome is different this time...

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05-16-2012, 07:50 PM
  #110
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Once again, you mean.
We can look forward to the future right up until Holmgren's continued trading of prospects and picks leads to another trade of major franchise players to rectify the situation, at which point we get to look forward to the future all over again. It's the cirrrrrclee of lifeeeeee.

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05-16-2012, 07:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Most of the time I feel carter is the type to pile on the scoring when the game is already decided but turtle up when the game is still up in the air.
Can you explain these numbers then?

07-08,08-09,09-10,10-11
GOALS: 29,46,33,36
ES GOALS: 20,29,20,28
PP GOALS: 7,13,11,8
SH GOALS: 2,4,2,0
FIRST GOALS: 5,6,10,9
OT GOALS: 0,3,0,0
GW GOALS: 5,12,6,7
VS DIVISION: 8,11,13,9

Led the team in goals for the past 4 years.
30 game winners in 4 years.
30 first goals in 4 years.
Vast majority of goals scored at even strength.

You may believe what you do, but your perception is ****ed.

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05-16-2012, 07:56 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The only thing we do know is the Kings got proven players. Richards is pretty much the same as always but Carter is still improving in some areas. The future looks promising in Philly but will they be able to afford all these young guys? You have to figure Voracek and Simmonds are looking for a big payday. JvR got $4.25 million/year for 6 years and for what? Voracek is likely going to expect the same and Simmonds, too. Will they end up leaving because of money? Right now it's win/win for both sides. Kings fans have more to be delerious about because they weren't expecting this so soon. Flyers fans have the future to look forward to.
JVR's new contract kicks in this season, but it was on the premise that he would have his breakout this year. He lost essentially a whole season of his development to injury. You can't really fault the Flyers on that one, I'm sure they expected a 30/30 season out of him with room to expand on his next contract. If that were the case, his contract would have been more than justified.

I just can't see Voracek getting a huge contract from the Flyers, and frankly, I don't think he's expecting one. For all his flash and dance, he's still hovering right around the 50 point mark for his career high. I could see him getting a shorter deal with the opportunity to prove that he's worthy of a big deal though.

Simmonds is in the same boat as Voracek. He's going to need to prove that he's more than a third liner, and that his goal mark this season wasn't a fluke. If he does, then that's a good problem to have, because he'll have shown that he was worth dealing Richards for in the first place. Part of having a lot of guys that can chip in means that none of them will put up huge offensive numbers individually, which means it should help to keep their second and third contracts somewhat in check.

I also think the Flyers learned from the Richards, Carter, and Pronger deals. All of those were long term. With exception of can't miss guys like Giroux, I think you'll see them stray away from career long deals. Yes the JVR contract is long, but it's below market value if he meets his potential, and it's not nearly as long as a deal like Richards'.

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05-16-2012, 07:58 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Can you explain these numbers then?

07-08,08-09,09-10,10-11
GOALS: 29,46,33,36
ES GOALS: 20,29,20,28
PP GOALS: 7,13,11,8
SH GOALS: 2,4,2,0
FIRST GOALS: 5,6,10,9
OT GOALS: 0,3,0,0
GW GOALS: 5,12,6,7
VS DIVISION: 8,11,13,9

Led the team in goals for the past 4 years.
30 game winners in 4 years.
30 first goals in 4 years.
Vast majority of goals scored at even strength.

You may believe what you do, but your perception is ****ed.
I'm pretty sure he had a tendency to lead the team in game-tying goals too.

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05-16-2012, 08:03 PM
  #114
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JVR's new contract kicks in this season, but it was on the premise that he would have his breakout this year. He lost essentially a whole season of his development to injury. You can't really fault the Flyers on that one, I'm sure they expected a 30/30 season out of him with room to expand on his next contract. If that were the case, his contract would have been more than justified.

I just can't see Voracek getting a huge contract from the Flyers, and frankly, I don't think he's expecting one. For all his flash and dance, he's still hovering right around the 50 point mark for his career high. I could see him getting a shorter deal with the opportunity to prove that he's worthy of a big deal though.
JVR got his big-assed contract following years with 35 and 40 points (including a couple of stints as a healthy scratch), and 13 points in 32 games in those two years in the playoffs. What makes you think Jake isn't looking for the same, with 49 points this year and 10 points in 11 games in playoffs?

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05-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #115
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You don't think some stats are misleading? you don't think that guys that score less than carter are more valuable to a team?

ovechkin scores a ton of goals and the caps had their best playoff in years when he was barely on the ice. Is he valuable? Ofcourse he is but I don't think he is as valuable as his stats suggest.

Most of the time I feel carter is the type to pile on the scoring when the game is already decided but turtle up when the game is still up in the air.

As for Abreu, he has very good stats but when you looked at him play the game did you think you were watching a hall of famer? If so, you must of been watching a different game then the rest of us.
This proves you don't know what you are talking about. The reason why their record was better was because Hunter played Ovechkin less after they took a lead because they went into a defensive shell. When they were losing they were playing Ovie more in hopes he would tie up the game. They weren't winning more because he was playing less.

As for Carter supposedly piling on the scoring read, go to goals by game situation and tell me what you see: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...011&gameType=2

Abreu is not a hall of fame player, but he was a great offensive player that was treated like he was dog ish much like Carter.

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05-16-2012, 08:09 PM
  #116
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Also, how you could ever root for the Rangers to win anything is beyond me.
When they play the Devils or Penguins?

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05-16-2012, 08:09 PM
  #117
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JVR got his big-assed contract following years with 35 and 40 points (including a couple of stints as a healthy scratch), and 13 points in 32 games in those two years in the playoffs. What makes you think Jake isn't looking for the same, with 49 points this year and 10 points in 11 games in playoffs?
I agree, but his playoffs in 2011 really played into that mindframe. It may have been a little short sighted. But, I really think JVR can be a player that Jake can't. His potential, imo, is a lot higher than Jake's. I see a great complimentary player in Jake, but JVR has first line go to guy potential. He was also the prize coming out of the season to end all seasons. The Flyers look at him as the only salvageable piece from that year, and they are probably right.

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05-16-2012, 08:13 PM
  #118
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JVR got his big-assed contract following years with 35 and 40 points (including a couple of stints as a healthy scratch), and 13 points in 32 games in those two years in the playoffs. What makes you think Jake isn't looking for the same, with 49 points this year and 10 points in 11 games in playoffs?
It's amazing to me that Holmgren was so brilliant with the Giroux contract, but is an idiot with contracts the rest of the time. No wonder why Giroux switched agents.

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05-16-2012, 08:15 PM
  #119
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I agree, but his playoffs in 2011 really played into that mindframe. It may have been a little short sighted. But, I really think JVR can be a player that Jake can't. His potential, imo, is a lot higher than Jake's. I see a great complimentary player in Jake, but JVR has first line go to guy potential. He was also the prize coming out of the season to end all seasons. The Flyers look at him as the only salvageable piece from that year, and they are probably right.
I watched Jake in junior a fair bit, and he was as dominant a player as they had in the Q. He has the ability to take over a game, to put the team on his back, and I think he has the potential to be every bit as good or better than JVR. He was rushed to the NHL and mishandled from the get go in Columbus (something JVR never had to overcome, and yet his stats are worse) - it's going to take some time to get his confidence back and to see the player he'll become.

JVR's deal was uber-reactionary and based on a couple of excellent playoff games. If I'm Jake's agent, I have a multitude of arguments to use to get my client a comparable contract.

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05-16-2012, 08:18 PM
  #120
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It's amazing to me that Holmgren was so brilliant with the Giroux contract, but is an idiot with contracts the rest of the time. No wonder why Giroux switched agents.
I have a feeling Roo helped Holmgren look brilliant - not the brightest financial move. His next contract is going to be massive if he continues on the way he did this year.

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05-16-2012, 08:22 PM
  #121
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I watched Jake in junior a fair bit, and he was as dominant a player as they had in the Q. He has the ability to take over a game, to put the team on his back, and I think he has the potential to be every bit as good or better than JVR. He was rushed to the NHL and mishandled from the get go in Columbus (something JVR never had to overcome, and yet his stats are worse) - it's going to take some time to get his confidence back and to see the player he'll become.

JVR's deal was uber-reactionary and based on a couple of excellent playoff games. If I'm Jake's agent, I have a multitude of arguments to use to get my client a comparable contract.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Jake become a great player, and I think he can, I just think JVR has the potential to be a lot better, even if both meet their full potential. Had JVR been healthy this year, I think he would have a better season and we wouldn't be comparing the potential contracts. I'm also not trying to make it seem like I'm a Jake hater either, he'll be a valuable player for this team, mostly because of his versatility. He can play almost any forward position, and in any situation that Lavy would put him in.

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05-16-2012, 08:29 PM
  #122
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As for Carter supposedly piling on the scoring read, go to goals by game situation and tell me what you see: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...011&gameType=2

Abreu is not a hall of fame player, but he was a great offensive player that was treated like he was dog ish much like Carter.
Yeah but all the non-blowout goals Carter scored were against the Islanders

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05-16-2012, 09:01 PM
  #123
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Once again, you mean.
Pretty much. I was trying to be polite

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JVR's new contract kicks in this season, but it was on the premise that he would have his breakout this year. He lost essentially a whole season of his development to injury. You can't really fault the Flyers on that one, I'm sure they expected a 30/30 season out of him with room to expand on his next contract. If that were the case, his contract would have been more than justified.

I just can't see Voracek getting a huge contract from the Flyers, and frankly, I don't think he's expecting one. For all his flash and dance, he's still hovering right around the 50 point mark for his career high. I could see him getting a shorter deal with the opportunity to prove that he's worthy of a big deal though.

Simmonds is in the same boat as Voracek. He's going to need to prove that he's more than a third liner, and that his goal mark this season wasn't a fluke. If he does, then that's a good problem to have, because he'll have shown that he was worth dealing Richards for in the first place. Part of having a lot of guys that can chip in means that none of them will put up huge offensive numbers individually, which means it should help to keep their second and third contracts somewhat in check.

I also think the Flyers learned from the Richards, Carter, and Pronger deals. All of those were long term. With exception of can't miss guys like Giroux, I think you'll see them stray away from career long deals. Yes the JVR contract is long, but it's below market value if he meets his potential, and it's not nearly as long as a deal like Richards'.
The Flyers may have learnt and the agents of the players certainly did. No more doing the organization a favour by taking long term and small cap hit. Those days are long gone.

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JVR got his big-assed contract following years with 35 and 40 points (including a couple of stints as a healthy scratch), and 13 points in 32 games in those two years in the playoffs. What makes you think Jake isn't looking for the same, with 49 points this year and 10 points in 11 games in playoffs?
Exactly. I prefer Jake to JvR, he just seems more consistent. JvR disappears a lot.

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I agree, but his playoffs in 2011 really played into that mindframe. It may have been a little short sighted. But, I really think JVR can be a player that Jake can't. His potential, imo, is a lot higher than Jake's. I see a great complimentary player in Jake, but JVR has first line go to guy potential. He was also the prize coming out of the season to end all seasons. The Flyers look at him as the only salvageable piece from that year, and they are probably right.
There is too much "potential" on this team and not enough "proven players". It's a very risky thing.

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It's amazing to me that Holmgren was so brilliant with the Giroux contract, but is an idiot with contracts the rest of the time. No wonder why Giroux switched agents.
Giroux will ask for a fortune, likely just under what Ovie and Crosby are getting. Maybe that's why he didn't go with a long term deal.

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05-16-2012, 09:24 PM
  #124
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Giroux got his contract while he still wasn't even really a center yet. With Briere, Carter, and Richards ahead of him at center, there wasn't a chance for him to be the go-to-guy and didn't have the same leverage.

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05-16-2012, 09:50 PM
  #125
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90% of the time I think his stats are hollow stats. I mean he gets a hat trick last night which is great and the media views him as a top sniper in the league. Well it was only the second game he scored in the entire playoffs and techinally they had no bearing on the outcome since Quick was lights out (as usual). You would never see him get a hat trick in a 4-3 playoff win. In fact, I can almost guarantee that if last nights game was 3-3 in the 3rd period and he had a chance to score he would have shot high and wide or directly into the goalies chest.
The 3rd goal last night was classic Jeff. Someone else does the work he gets the tip in.

Not that Jeff doesn't work, but it just seems like he gets these tap ins. I swear he's never scored on a break away. He's got no stickhandling really, but a GREAT wrister.

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