Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
And is joined by Joe Thornton and Roberto Luongo, whose current teams decide that they'll bite the bullet and make a move. Vancouver to get out from under Luongo's contract and eliminate the nonstop goalie controversy, and San Jose to clear some space while beginning a rebuild of sorts.
He was supposedly caught off guard when Howson told the media that Nash was the one requesting a trade and was upset. I think he wanted his request to remain quiet and that he approached management as a courtesy instead of waiting a few seasons and then demanding a trade.
The speculation was all exactly that until Nash's agent (Joe Resnick) decided to talk to the media on the last Saturday in February, less than 48 hours before the trade deadline.
If he hadn't done that, Howson says nothing. It was a game of brinksmanship.
Yeah I know Resnick applied pressure by saying Nash's list wouldn't expand.
However, for what little it is worth, Howson's response was the wrong one in my opinion. I think releasing that fact does not serve to improve Nash's value. The less said the better IMO.
And is joined by Joe Thornton and Roberto Luongo, whose current teams decide that they'll bite the bullet and make a move. Vancouver to get out from under Luongo's contract and eliminate the nonstop goalie controversy, and San Jose to clear some space while beginning a rebuild of sorts.
You're not getting both Thornton and Luongo while still retaining the no.2 pick + Johanson + Jack Johnson.
Pavelski plays against tougher competition than all of those guys, consistently, and puts up more points (slightly) than Nash doing so at the same time as shutting down those opposing players defensively to a level Nash cannot touch. Pavelski is a selke level defensive forward and I fully expect him to be nominated for one at some point.
Pavelski produces no matter who he is paired with. Again, I point out, for all your hyperbole, Pavelski had more points than Nash when he played on the 3rd line with the likes of Wellwood and Mitchell.
Nash is hugely overhyped and highly overpaid.
You can continue to hype the Nash train all you like, but it's simply not backed up by any evidence, and let me put it in bold for you since no one seems to grasp this:
JOE PAVELSKI GETS PAID HALF OF WHAT RICK NASH IS PAID.
There value is not equal, Pavelski is a superior two-way player. You talk about hits, Pavelski takes face-offs better than any top centerman int he league. He blocks more shots than Nash, he's better defensively, and he's equal offensively, whether the Nash apologists want to admit it or not.
Until Nash starts putting up 40 goal seasons again I'm not interested in him at $8m a season, sorry. Especially not at the cost of Pavelski, and bringing up Couture isn't even funny. Keep up with the insults, I'll keep up with the facts.
pavelski would be lucky to score 10 goals in columbus
he's not nearly as talented as Nash
theres a reason that the Sharks consistently fall short in the playoffs and Pavelski is a major part of that
nobody in their right mind all things being equal salary wise, would take pavelski over Nash,
you wanna say Nash is paid too much fine, but you cant say Pavelski is his equal as a player, because frankly thats assinine
pavelski would be lucky to score 10 goals in columbus
he's not nearly as talented as Nash
theres a reason that the Sharks consistently fall short in the playoffs and Pavelski is a major part of that
nobody in their right mind all things being equal salary wise, would take pavelski over Nash,
you wanna say Nash is paid too much fine, but you cant say Pavelski is his equal as a player, because frankly thats assinine
Pavelski is his equal as a player. He's not his equal in talent (which i have said several times) but he is absolutely out-performing him at half the value.
And your 10 goals comment is what is asinine. He scored 20 goals with Torrey Mitchell and Kyle Wellwood for gods sake, on our 3rd line.
Here is my challenge to you (which I am sure you will ignore):
1) Find statistical proof over the last two seasons (beceause we base the value of a player on what he is doing today, not 3-5 years ago) where Rick Nash is clearly superior. Keep in mind, whatever your results are need to be $3.8M better.
2) Find statistical proof of 'elite' players being moved from poor teams to good teams and where their stats increased significantly. You cannot use players who were injured during their final season with the team they left, last healthy season only.
If you actually do those things, you will understand my argument.
You're not getting both Thornton and Luongo while still retaining the no.2 pick + Johanson + Jack Johnson.
I don't see any of those being necessary pieces for Luongo. He has better value than many think, but I still think the biggest value for the Canucks is losing that contract.
1) Find statistical proof over the last two seasons (beceause we base the value of a player on what he is doing today, not 3-5 years ago) where Rick Nash is clearly superior. Keep in mind, whatever your results are need to be $3.8M better.
2) Find statistical proof of 'elite' players being moved from poor teams to good teams and where their stats increased significantly. You cannot use players who were injured during their final season with the team they left, last healthy season only.
If you actually do those things, you will understand my argument.
1) Rick Nash is paid 7.8 million per year after because he was paid on his UFA deal, why do people keep bringing up Pavelski's salary as some huge deal? Pavelski came into the league later than Nash and as such his contracts haven't happened at the same time as Nash. When Pavelski re-signs in 2 years the gap will be much closer. For statistical proof...Nash put up 30 goals and 33 goals the last 2 seasons and the best center on the team was RJ Umberger, Antoine Vermette, Derrick Brassard or Ryan Johansen. While the most used d-men were Tyutin and Wizniewski and Jan Hejda 2 seasons ago.
Now if someone ACTUALLY has to explain to you why a players offence is affected by those around him you truly are lost...but at the very least you can appreciate that a team with Dan Boyle playing 26:14 and 25:34 per night the last 2 seasons is going to be much better offensively. That doesn't even take into consideration that the Sharks have 4 guys who are significanlty better than anyone Columbus can play with, and that doesn't include Heatley from last season, Clowe (because he's not that great) or Havlat this season (who missed half the season).
Do you know anything about how teams play defence in the NHL? What do you think is harder for a team to play against, a team like Columbus or a team like San Jose? Don't you think the fact that the team has 1 first liner and not a single top pairing d-man should be taken into consideration in the discussion?
2) The thing is that most teams surround good players with other good players. I'm sure if someone really wanted to take the time to refute your argument there are examples to be found of this but when you so blatantly ignore other facts and act as though you're providing "factual evidence" why would anyone take the time to do that? I'll provide a counter to your argument, how often do great players toil away on bad teams? Since you seem to think you can win an argument by daring people to waste their time refuting what someone on the internet says I'll play along as well. Show me all these great players who had average numbers and underperformed because their team never improved around them OR show me these examples where great players got traded to better teams and didn't improve their numbers.
You can do any number of examples from either. You won't be able to any better or worse than what you've challenged people to do and act as though because no one will care enough about what you say to refute it all that indicates you're right.
For the record Daniel Briere from Phoenix to Buffalo is a great example of a guy going to a much better team and putting up significant better numbers. Also, Thornton when he went to San Jose put up SIGNIFICANTLY better numbers even though he'd had a 101 point season while in Boston.
Again, if you really don't think that had anything to do with going from a weak offensive team to a strong offensive team I don't know what to tell you.
Last edited by UniverStalinGraduate*: 05-16-2012 at 07:09 PM.
Pavelski is his equal as a player. He's not his equal in talent (which i have said several times) but he is absolutely out-performing him at half the value.
And your 10 goals comment is what is asinine. He scored 20 goals with Torrey Mitchell and Kyle Wellwood for gods sake, on our 3rd line.
yes while every other team is focusing on Thornton and Marleau and Couture Pavelski flies under the radar
in columbus, Pavelski on our top line is lucky to score 10 goals, since he would be the focal point of all of our opponents attention
your lack of understanding is astounding. in San Jose Nash can escape constant double coverages since there are others similarly talented in hornton and Marleau and Couture
James Neal
Rick Middleton
Cam Neely
Markus Naslund
Denis Maruk
Last edited by 54roughing*: 05-16-2012 at 07:15 PM.
It's between San Jose and the Blue Jackets at the moment.
That's about where I am at this point. Depends on how this summer goes.
__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards
Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
I don't see any of those being necessary pieces for Luongo. He has better value than many think, but I still think the biggest value for the Canucks is losing that contract.
There are lots of teams that would take Luongo and Thornton on if the price was low, not just Columbus.
I don't think he goes anywhere to be honest, unless the Jackets budge on their asking price. From what I've heard of the deadline offers, they're asking for the world for him and I just don't see a team budging.
i think the sharks are a good fit, theyre looking for a shake up, and have the pieces necessary.
Toronto shouldn't offer the pieces necessary, they are not in a position to be giving away 1st rounders and young prospects.
Detroit, if they strike out on Semin/Parise, could, but I can't imagine clb is huge on trading with them ^^
NYR for Dubinsky,Staal and Stepan. With Kreider ready for full time next season they have extra bodies. Also Dubinsky and Staal have been passed by Callahan and the likes of Girardi and McDonough.
NYR for Dubinsky,Staal and Stepan. With Kreider ready for full time next season they have extra bodies. Also Dubinsky and Staal have been passed by Callahan and the likes of Girardi and McDonough.
Nash is absolutely not worth that.
One of the most over-rated players in the game for three young players (at least two of whom are only gonna get better) who are already more than capable and have playoff experience.
If that's Nash's value, New York needs to run away. Do they want 7.8 on the books for 7 years?
