HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Canada's goaltending since 2010

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-17-2012, 09:22 AM
  #51
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Anyways, I've never had faith in Cam Ward and tonight, despite what his biggest fans will tell you, he let us down. We needed the big save from him and instead he was outplayed by Jan Laco. Ward should definitely NOT be on the Olympic team.
A few days ago, in the Olympics topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks
In the long run none of this matters. It'll be how the goalies perform in 2013-2014 that matter.
Your reaction was expected, because even if Canada had won today's game, you'd still find someway to fault Ward.

At least Someguy admits he didn't watch the game, so his wrong assessment of Ward's play can be excused. You apparently watched it, but still managed to screw it up. That takes skill.

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:23 AM
  #52
Samcanadian
Registered User
 
Samcanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,306
vCash: 54
I still can't understand why Luongo is repeatedly looked over as the goaltender for Team Canada. He's done nothing but play as solid as any other goaltender we've had in recent memory, yet for some reason Canadian hockey fans still claim that we would have been better off with playing someone else in Vancouver. Wtf? Did we not win a gold medal?

Luongo:

Olympics:
7gp
6-1
.927 Sv %
1.69 GAA

I guess numbers aren't good enough for HFboard trolls. To put him at the bottom of 6 current Canadian goalies is retarded.

Samcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:31 AM
  #53
Drij
Registered User
 
Drij's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
1. Price
2. Elliot
3. Smith

4. Fleury
5. Luongo
lol

Drij is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:32 AM
  #54
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,644
vCash: 100
There really isn't much competition for the goalie job for the Olympics.

Price seems like the only option for #1. Every other "top" goalie isn't playing like one right now.

Price
Luongo
Ward.

Luongo backs Price up because he's had the experience and won it. I can't see Fleury getting a nod if he keeps sucking. He's been really poor and has pretty much lived off of the SC win.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:32 AM
  #55
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
A few days ago, in the Olympics topic:



Your reaction was expected, because even if Canada had won today's game, you'd still find someway to fault Ward.

At least Someguy admits he didn't watch the game, so his wrong assessment of Ward's play can be excused. You apparently watched it, but still managed to screw it up. That takes skill.
Just watched the highlights and it was not Ward's fault we lost the game. The first and fourth goal he had no chance on. He wasn't really completely at fault on any of the goals to be honest. None are what I'd consider soft. Again, the problem is that he didn't come up with the big saves. Sure, the 2nd and 3rd goals were difficult shots to stop, but once in awhile, you have to make those kind of saves. Every other team's goaltender makes several per game it seems.

So in summary, wasn't Ward's fault we lost, but he certainly didn't help matters either, with his inability to make big saves. Canada is a great hockey country with lots of talent, but we're not invincible. We're going to have defensive breakdowns. We're going to make mistakes. We need a goaltender to make a big save for us every now in then. We've not gotten the big saves on any level since Vancouver and that is a disturbing trend.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:41 AM
  #56
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,880
vCash: 500
Ward made big saves. Every save made after Canada's lackluster start (again) was a big one, to ensure the team could climb out of the 2-0 hole it put itself in. Something they were able to do (and take the lead), because of Ward's goaltending.

However, the problem the entire tournament has been special teams. So giving an opposing team a 5-minute powerplay late in a tied game (let alone one with Chara on the backend) against a very bad penalty kill, the result wasn't entirely unexpected.

Like I said earlier, there's a difference between making big saves and expecting him to steal the game. Like any goaltender, the first can be done. The latter depends on the situation the team in front of the goaltender puts itself in. You can't expect a goaltender to steal a game, and if he doesn't, you don't blame the goaltender, you blame the team for forcing him to do so.

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:43 AM
  #57
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Ward made big saves. Every save made after Canada's lackluster start (again) was a big one, to ensure the team could climb out of the 2-0 hole it put itself in. Something they were able to do (and take the lead), because of Ward's goaltending.

However, the problem the entire tournament has been special teams. So giving an opposing team a 5-minute powerplay late in a tied game (let alone one with Chara on the backend) against a very bad penalty kill, the result wasn't entirely unexpected.

Like I said earlier, there's a difference between making big saves and expecting him to steal the game. Like any goaltender, the first can be done. The latter depends on the situation the team in front of the goaltender puts itself in.
The bottom line is that .857 isn't good enough. If Ward put up .857 for the Hurricanes, I bet there would be plenty of your fans who would be upset about it. He didn't make the big saves. He lost the game. End of story.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:45 AM
  #58
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,586
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Cam Ward was outplayed by Jan Laco. That's just not acceptable.

y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 09:48 AM
  #59
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Cam Ward was outplayed by Jan Laco. That's just not acceptable.
This.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:01 AM
  #60
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
The bottom line is that .857 isn't good enough. If Ward put up .857 for the Hurricanes, I bet there would be plenty of your fans who would be upset about it. He didn't make the big saves. He lost the game. End of story.
Depends on the situation of the game. If he put up an .857 giving up goals like he did today, most fans would do the rational thing and realize that "Hey, maybe we should show up for the first period" or "Hey, maybe our players shouldn't take stupid penalties when our penalty kill sucks so much".

The fact of the matter is, Canada once again shot themselves in the foot by A: not playing up to their potential and B: taking stupid penalties. The same thing that they've been doing all tournament.

The stat argument works for those who didn't watch the game. Thank god those that actually make the decisions actually watch the games and don't rely simply on stats.

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:07 AM
  #61
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Depends on the situation of the game. If he put up an .857 giving up goals like he did today, most fans would do the rational thing and realize that "Hey, maybe we should show up for the first period" or "Hey, maybe our players shouldn't take stupid penalties when our penalty kill sucks so much".

The fact of the matter is, Canada once again shot themselves in the foot by A: not playing up to their potential and B: taking stupid penalties. The same thing that they've been doing all tournament.

The stat argument works for those who didn't watch the game. Thank god those that actually make the decisions actually watch the games and don't rely simply on stats.
Don't get me wrong. I've been the most critical Canadian fan on these boards throughout this tournament. Look at my post history. I've called this team things like embarrassing, pathetic, a joke, etc. In no way am I defending the teams play and saying Ward lost the game for us. But he was not without his bad moments. It wasn't his fault we lost, but he contributed to the loss effort just as much as everyone else on the team.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:10 AM
  #62
FrozenFloor
Pest
 
FrozenFloor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
We'll be more then fine. Not worried at all, as long as we have our choice of stud D to pick from I'd be comfortable throwing Reimer out there in Sochi.

FrozenFloor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:13 AM
  #63
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,171
vCash: 500
I think Luongo was most certainly invited by Team Canada but he declined. I don't believe the Team Canada executives are as silly and uninformed as some posters here that they have Luongo at the bottom of the list of Canadian goaltenders.

NuxFan09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:18 AM
  #64
Chootoi
Registered User
 
Chootoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,521
vCash: 500
It's ridiculous to be picking goalies for Sochi in 2012 if you're Canada.

I'm a firm believer in riding the hot hand. Canada is in a fortunate (enough) position to have enough talent in net that any one guy from a long list is fully capable of stepping up at the right time. Enough with the pedigree picks and just go with whoever is playing the best at the right time. Whether that's Fleury, Luongo, Mason, Ward or Jason freaking Labarbera, at the very least they should put a hot hand on the roster and give the other two a real short leash.

Chootoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:24 AM
  #65
Plante
Registered User
 
Plante's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chootoi View Post
It's ridiculous to be picking goalies for Sochi in 2012 if you're Canada.

I'm a firm believer in riding the hot hand. Canada is in a fortunate (enough) position to have enough talent in net that any one guy from a long list is fully capable of stepping up at the right time. Enough with the pedigree picks and just go with whoever is playing the best at the right time. Whether that's Fleury, Luongo, Mason, Ward or Jason freaking Labarbera, at the very least they should put a hot hand on the roster and give the other two a real short leash.
Imagine what future Canadians would think if they saw we rode a hot Labarbera rofl.

Plante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:31 AM
  #66
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chootoi View Post
It's ridiculous to be picking goalies for Sochi in 2012 if you're Canada.
I don't think anyone is making sure fire picks. Just speculating. And to be honest, that's a problem. Americans can say Ryan Miller/Jonathan Quick. The Swedes can say Henrik Lundqvist. The Finns can say Pekka Rinne. Those countries all have a bonifide number one. We don't. We don't have that one guy who we can say "This will be our goaltender". Carey Price is our best option at this point, in my opinion and even he's not at the same level as the previously mentioned goaltenders.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #67
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
Don't get me wrong. I've been the most critical Canadian fan on these boards throughout this tournament. Look at my post history. I've called this team things like embarrassing, pathetic, a joke, etc. In no way am I defending the teams play and saying Ward lost the game for us. But he was not without his bad moments. It wasn't his fault we lost, but he contributed to the loss effort just as much as everyone else on the team.
So...he's like every goaltender ever?

Rarely do goaltenders steal games on a consistent basis, and if the Canadian team is good enough, they don't have to (See: last Olympics). Luongo was never required to "make the big saves" and in situations that, in fact, required him to do so, he failed. (See: Parise's game-tying last minute goal). Likewise, Brodeur's performance in those Olympics were similar to Ward's now. He didn't play great, but neither did the team in front of him. Canadian goaltending ebbs and flows with the strength of the team in front of it.

Why does this happen? Because you've got a group of players that have never played together in front of a goaltender that doesn't know the tendencies of the team in front of him. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how much trust plays into the part of goaltending. You trust that if you give up a rebound, your team will be the first one on it. You trust that they're not going to let the pass through on a two-on-one or turn over the puck at the blueline. A goaltender can only do so much.

As the tournament went along, the Canadian team should have meshed, both offensively and defensively. They never did. We've seen flashes of the dominant Canadian team, but never enough consistency. The only line that generated consistent offense in every game was the Eberle-JT-Skinner line and the only defenseman that was somewhat consistent was Keith. So when you've got a team that plays the QF the same way they played game 1 of the prelims, you're not going to see much success.

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:48 AM
  #68
Plante
Registered User
 
Plante's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
I don't think anyone is making sure fire picks. Just speculating. And to be honest, that's a problem. Americans can say Ryan Miller/Jonathan Quick. The Swedes can say Henrik Lundqvist. The Finns can say Pekka Rinne. Those countries all have a bonifide number one. We don't. We don't have that one guy who we can say "This will be our goaltender". Carey Price is our best option at this point, in my opinion and even he's not at the same level as the previously mentioned goaltenders.
Give him a couple years to actually pass the 25 yr old mark. We'll see nothing but increased proficiency from Carey. Where was Henrik, Pekka, Thomas when they were 24?

Plante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:50 AM
  #69
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plante View Post
Give him a couple years to actually pass the 25 yr old mark. We'll see nothing but increased proficiency from Carey. Where was Henrik, Pekka, Thomas when they were 24?
All we can do is hope he reaches that level. There's certainly no guarantee that we'll get that good just because he gets to age 25+. As the old saying goes, hope in one hand and **** in the other, see which one fills faster.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 10:56 AM
  #70
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So...he's like every goaltender ever?

Rarely do goaltenders steal games on a consistent basis, and if the Canadian team is good enough, they don't have to (See: last Olympics). Luongo was never required to "make the big saves" and in situations that, in fact, required him to do so, he failed. (See: Parise's game-tying last minute goal). Likewise, Brodeur's performance in those Olympics were similar to Ward's now. He didn't play great, but neither did the team in front of him. Canadian goaltending ebbs and flows with the strength of the team in front of it.

Why does this happen? Because you've got a group of players that have never played together in front of a goaltender that doesn't know the tendencies of the team in front of him. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how much trust plays into the part of goaltending. You trust that if you give up a rebound, your team will be the first one on it. You trust that they're not going to let the pass through on a two-on-one or turn over the puck at the blueline. A goaltender can only do so much.

As the tournament went along, the Canadian team should have meshed, both offensively and defensively. They never did. We've seen flashes of the dominant Canadian team, but never enough consistency. The only line that generated consistent offense in every game was the Eberle-JT-Skinner line and the only defenseman that was somewhat consistent was Keith. So when you've got a team that plays the QF the same way they played game 1 of the prelims, you're not going to see much success.
Again, I'm not defending the team's play. The entire time I've posted in this thread, my main point is that our opposition's goaltenders always outplay our own. It happened at all the WJCs I mentioned, it happened last year at the WHC and it happened again today.

TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 11:13 AM
  #71
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,586
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So...he's like every goaltender ever?

Rarely do goaltenders steal games on a consistent basis, and if the Canadian team is good enough, they don't have to (See: last Olympics). Luongo was never required to "make the big saves" and in situations that, in fact, required him to do so, he failed. (See: Parise's game-tying last minute goal). Likewise, Brodeur's performance in those Olympics were similar to Ward's now. He didn't play great, but neither did the team in front of him. Canadian goaltending ebbs and flows with the strength of the team in front of it.

Why does this happen? Because you've got a group of players that have never played together in front of a goaltender that doesn't know the tendencies of the team in front of him. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how much trust plays into the part of goaltending. You trust that if you give up a rebound, your team will be the first one on it. You trust that they're not going to let the pass through on a two-on-one or turn over the puck at the blueline. A goaltender can only do so much.

As the tournament went along, the Canadian team should have meshed, both offensively and defensively. They never did. We've seen flashes of the dominant Canadian team, but never enough consistency. The only line that generated consistent offense in every game was the Eberle-JT-Skinner line and the only defenseman that was somewhat consistent was Keith. So when you've got a team that plays the QF the same way they played game 1 of the prelims, you're not going to see much success.
Umm...Luongo made several big saves at the Olympics. In the gold medal overtime he came up big stopping Pavelski who had a clear cut path to the net. Against Slovakia in the dying seconds Luongo absolutely robbed Demitra. These are saves we didnt get out of Cam Ward to save the game late.

__________________
May 17, 2014: The day nightlife changes in Vancouver...ask me how.
y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 11:17 AM
  #72
TonsofPuppies*
#ThePriceIsRight
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Umm...Luongo made several big saves at the Olympics. In the gold medal overtime he came up big stopping Pavelski who had a clear cut path to the net. Against Slovakia in the dying seconds Luongo absolutely robbed Demitra. These are saves we didnt get out of Cam Ward to save the game late.
To be fair, if Luongo doesn't allow that absolutely putrid first goal, he never has to be in a position to make that huge save on Demitra in the dying seconds. I think the soft goals are what put people off when it comes to Luongo, also his number one position has been usurped by Cory Schneider, which doesn't help his image. Still, he's a better goalie than Ward and would have given us a better chance to win than Ward did. My ranking as of right now is:

1. Price
2. Luongo
3. Fleury (would have been #2 if not for that awful 1st round exit against the Flyers)


Last edited by TonsofPuppies*: 05-17-2012 at 11:22 AM.
TonsofPuppies* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 11:20 AM
  #73
M A K A V E L I*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: van Coevorden
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,518
vCash: 500
Luongo would've won gold.

M A K A V E L I* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 11:27 AM
  #74
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Umm...Luongo made several big saves at the Olympics. In the gold medal overtime he came up big stopping Pavelski who had a clear cut path to the net. Against Slovakia in the dying seconds Luongo absolutely robbed Demitra. These are saves we didnt get out of Cam Ward to save the game late.
If the Pavelski shot is your definition of a big save, then Ward made several during the 5-minute PK Getzlaf put the team on. And, similar to Luongo against Slovakia, Ward saved the game against Finland by making an outstanding save in the final minutes.

The difference between Luongo's performance and Ward's performance is that Canada was a dominant team during their Olympic run, often right from the puck drop. Rarely did Luongo have to keep his team in the game while the Canadians were greatly outplayed. That's pretty much all Ward did in this tournament, since for 90% of the games they played, Canada never showed up for the first period.

I've gotten into enough arguments with you about Ward to know it's not worth debating. I guarantee you if Luongo was beat by the goals Ward was today, you'd be singing a different tune.

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2012, 11:28 AM
  #75
5RingsAndABeer
John MacKinnon Fan
 
5RingsAndABeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 10,156
vCash: 1220
In my opinion, Luongo and Dubnyk were better choices than Ward or Fleury. The latter two are living off SC success from a while ago

5RingsAndABeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.