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Old
05-16-2012, 07:32 PM
  #76
NitHeel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
So yeah on the Couturier part. But let's not pretend Couturier has played himself into the top 6 and is a sure fire star. A good pick by the Leafs at 5 overall and 27 points as a rookie is hardly a stretch -- Forsberg can duplicate that.
If you're grading Sean Couturier on the basis of points scored while playing a shutdown role on the Flyers 4th line you're either completely missed the point or are intentionally missing it. I'm sure a forward the Leafs pick at #5 could be given very solid ice time and would have every opportunity to exceed 25 points. Would that player be given the role of matching up with Malkin and hold him to 3 assists in 12 games when 5 on 5 as a teenage rookie?



That said, I think we all agree that the discussed deal doesn't make sense for TML. And I think we can all agree that JVR/Couturier for Schenn/#1 makes little or no sense from the Flyers. With Schenn no longer being a great fit for the Flyers needs defensively, can't we just agree that there's not much to be done between the 2 teams? Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

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05-16-2012, 09:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Phatic View Post
5th overall at worst ='s JVR at the moment
That's pretty funny. How do you figure that the 5th overall will "at worst" be better than a 2nd overall who has actually made the NHL and contributed?

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05-17-2012, 11:08 AM
  #78
hockeywoot
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
That's pretty funny. How do you figure that the 5th overall will "at worst" be better than a 2nd overall who has actually made the NHL and contributed?
HFboards logic. Defined.

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Old
05-17-2012, 12:01 PM
  #79
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i was under the impression that most people felt a schenn for jvr swap was pretty fair. at least close enough that a + could be negotiated in the form of a pick/prospect. if thats the case then it means the 5th overall for bobo a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick???????????? i cant see burke being interested in that at all, nor should he be

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05-17-2012, 12:41 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
i was under the impression that Toronto Fans felt a schenn for jvr swap was pretty fair.
Fixed. Schenn had a disaster of a year that cannot be blamed on injury. Call-ups were getting more ice time than him and he's a fourth year veteran. Toronto and Philly don't make good trade partners. Gardiner is the only player that fills a need for the Flyers and Toronto won't move him. And the only players the Flyers have to obtain the 5th overall, Schenn or Couturier, they won't move because it's a lateral move at best.

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05-17-2012, 12:45 PM
  #81
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Toronto is not parting with the 5th overall for Bobrovsky and JVR.

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05-17-2012, 01:05 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
i was under the impression that most people felt a schenn for jvr swap was pretty fair. at least close enough that a + could be negotiated in the form of a pick/prospect. if thats the case then it means the 5th overall for bobo a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick???????????? i cant see burke being interested in that at all, nor should he be
You are wrong. JVR is worth much more than Schenn. Schenn has about the same value ad Wayne Simmonds. THAT has been established in numerous threads and all sides seem to agree on that. However, even though the value may be fair there is no way the Flyers would trade Simmonds for Schenn seeing how we have Grossmann to fill the role that Schenn would and nobody else to fill the void left by Simmonds departure.

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05-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
No chance from Toronto. JVR is seriously over-rated. He's soft and out of shape. And Toronto is going to trade #5 overall -- come on, get real.
well it was real just a few years ago, why wouldnt it happen again? haha
And JVR being out of shape? lol.

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05-17-2012, 04:12 PM
  #84
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IIRC, Burke and Holmgren were talking last season around a JVR for Schenn deal but it fell apart when JVR suffered the concussion.

Holmgren doesn't see a drop in the value of JVR, but Burke feels it is grounds to reduce the asking price.

Not sure how far that would take things, but I will venture a guess that the value, with an off-season of recuperation, is probably back to being 50/50.

The Flyers can still use Schenn in their lineup and the Leafs of course could use JVR. There is good reason to make this deal happen.

Bobrovsky+2nd+3rd in that case doesn't equal the 5thOA and not even the 20thOA+Bobbo will cut it, since Bobrovsky isn't a clear upgrade over either of Reimer or Scrivens.

The Flyers aren't getting the 5thOA nor should they want to, can't see them valuing it enough to pay the price they'd need to get it. They have already pillaged CBJ for Voracek and Couturier, they can just wait for their new core players to mature and improve.

No to this deal, but a JVR for Schenn swap could be done.

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Old
05-17-2012, 05:42 PM
  #85
PHIFLY28
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yessssss how about
1st,3rd,bobs,jvr
for
schenn,5thOV,RYNNAS?

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Old
05-17-2012, 06:28 PM
  #86
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Huh? Injured doesn't mean out of shape. And isn't that the rap on Luke Schenn?
Schenn is in too much shape, so much so that his body weight is slowing him down. The guy is 230 points of pure muscle

Anyway, terrible deal. Schenn and JVR have (give or take a 2nd) similar value, that leaves 5th overall for Bob + 2nd? Its laughably bad.

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05-17-2012, 06:49 PM
  #87
NitHeel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
IIRC, Burke and Holmgren were talking last season around a JVR for Schenn deal but it fell apart when JVR suffered the concussion.

Holmgren doesn't see a drop in the value of JVR, but Burke feels it is grounds to reduce the asking price.

Not sure how far that would take things, but I will venture a guess that the value, with an off-season of recuperation, is probably back to being 50/50.

The Flyers can still use Schenn in their lineup and the Leafs of course could use JVR. There is good reason to make this deal happen.

Bobrovsky+2nd+3rd in that case doesn't equal the 5thOA and not even the 20thOA+Bobbo will cut it, since Bobrovsky isn't a clear upgrade over either of Reimer or Scrivens.

The Flyers aren't getting the 5thOA nor should they want to, can't see them valuing it enough to pay the price they'd need to get it. They have already pillaged CBJ for Voracek and Couturier, they can just wait for their new core players to mature and improve.

No to this deal, but a JVR for Schenn swap could be done.


It's been said several times in this thread, but after the Flyers traded for and extended Nik Grossmann, L.Schenn became redundant and unnecessary. The need is for a true all phases #1 or a 2nd pair type defenseman who can skate and move the puck.

The L.Schenn for JVR boat has left the shore. Burke brings that up now, Holmgren asks about Gardner and the talks die a quick death.

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Old
05-17-2012, 08:06 PM
  #88
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Pass. Don't want Luke Schenn. I'd rather keep JVR while his value is "low" and hope he develops like he should (I'd be pleased if he turns into a consistant 30g scorer, even if it's only as a 30/25 player).

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