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Old
05-17-2012, 12:32 PM
  #51
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
To the OP, I would switch the 2nd from Boston to Winnipeg and still do the deal.

E. Kane
2nd in 2013

for

Krejci
Hamilton
Nope. I think Kane/Krejci are closer in value than what the deal suggests. Certainly not as much as the difference between a 2nd rounder and Hamilton.

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05-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I wouldn't touch that deal.

I think Kane has more value than Krejci, a resigned Enstrom has more value than Marchand, and the late 1st and the Jets prospect are close to a wash.
Not if he refuses to re-sign with the JETS. If this is his intention, other teams will know about it. Things like that always have a way of making their way to the media.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the JETS end up painted into a corner of having to trade Enstrom mid-year after he's A) had another off year or B) has been injured. Both of these scenarios decrease his value.

I love Kane and really don't want him moved (I have his jersey), but if Kane is equivalent to Marchand, Knight and a 1st as Bruins' fans are proposing, I'd definitely consider it if it was expanded to include Krejci for Enstrom.

Helps us with prospect depth. Knight is a fantastic young player and the extra 1st this year or next could be a nice piece as well going forward. Adding Krejci give us immediate help and allows us to use this year's # 9 to replenish with one of the top defenseman to eventually replace the loss of Enstrom.


Last edited by untouchable21: 05-17-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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05-17-2012, 12:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Nope. I think Kane/Krejci are closer in value than what the deal suggests. Certainly not as much as the difference between a 2nd rounder and Hamilton.
That's cool, I wasn't really proposing that as much as trying to illustrate that the OP is so lopsided that you could move one asset from 1 team to the other and it still works for me as a Jets fan.

As for your Kane/Krejci argument, I can get behind that, but you also have to realize that part of the package when dealing for Kane is the potential he brings to the table. You'd never get Kane for Krejci in 2 years if he explodes for 45+ goals. I know that may seem like a big if, but it's not bigger than the if that comes along with Hamilton.

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05-17-2012, 12:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JetNation View Post
The last thing i want is the Jets trading for Marchand
Absolutely love the player. Successful teams need players of his type and teams always tend to hate those player EXCEPT when they play for your own team. Plus it helps that Marchand has proved his capabilities on the largest stage at the most crucial time of year.

SIGN ME UP!!!!!!!!!!

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05-17-2012, 12:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
What would it take for the Bruins to get Bogosian out of Winnipeg?
Bogosian is not going anywhere anytime soon. There's no Bogosian talk unless Seguin is involved. End of story.

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05-17-2012, 01:18 PM
  #56
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For someone who claims to "hate" Winnipeg, OP sure cut them a sweetheart deal.

I love Kane, but I would do this deal in a heartbeat.

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05-17-2012, 01:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
Not if he refuses to re-sign with the JETS. If this is his intention, other teams will know about it. Things like that always have a way of making their way to the media.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the JETS end up painted into a corner of having to trade Enstrom mid-year after he's A) had another off year or B) has been injured. Both of these scenarios decrease his value.

I love Kane and really don't want him moved (I have his jersey), but if Kane is equivalent to Marchand, Knight and a 1st as Bruins' fans are proposing, I'd definitely consider it if it was expanded to include Krejci.

Helps us with prospect depth. Knight is a fantastic young player and the extra 1st this year or next could be a nice piece as well going forward. Adding Krejci give us immediate help and allows us to use this year's # 9 to replenish with one of the top defenseman to eventually replace the loss of Enstrom.
I hear what you are saying in regards to Enstrom, but in your proposal it included Enstrom signing the extension. So in your proposal the Jets are offering Kane and a signed Enstrom, which I think is a lot to give up.

Your 1st proposal that I replied to was Kane, Enstrom, and Klingberg/ Cormier for Marchand, Krejci, and a 1st.

Above it seems you are saying Kane and Enstrom for Marchand, Krejci, Knight, and a 1st.

I wouldn't do the former, but I would be interested in the latter.

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05-17-2012, 01:55 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
Bogosian is not going anywhere anytime soon. There's no Bogosian talk unless Seguin is involved. End of story.
That would make it the end of the story, I value Seguin more than any player on the jets, it would take a tremendous offer to even get the Bruins to discuss trading Seguin.

So I understand how you feel about the jets players.

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05-17-2012, 01:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I hear what you are saying in regards to Enstrom, but in your proposal it included Enstrom signing the extension. So in your proposal the Jets are offering Kane and a signed Enstrom, which I think is a lot to give up.

Your 1st proposal that I replied to was Kane, Enstrom, and Klingberg/ Cormier for Marchand, Krejci, and a 1st.

Above it seems you are saying Kane and Enstrom for Marchand, Krejci, Knight, and a 1st.

I wouldn't do the former, but I would be interested in the latter.
Yeah, I guess I was sort of undercutting the value somewhat by giving up an additional asset, but then realized that from the Bruins' side of things they seemed okay with including Knight with the 1st and Marchand for just Kane.

Also just to note that what I meant was if Enstrom was willing to sign an extension with the Bruins, but had no intention of re-signing with the Jets meaning they either move him or he goes to free agency.

From a Bruins' standpoint, I wouldn't trade Krejci if I wasn't guaranteed that Enstrom would re-sign. In cases like that would teams allow other teams to talk to the player or does that break some rule?

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05-17-2012, 02:00 PM
  #60
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I would love Kane on the Bs, but this is a vast overpayment on part of the Bruins. Boston prob wouldn't even do Hamilton for Kane straight up...the other part of the deal would work for me Krejci and a draft pick/prospect would work.

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05-17-2012, 03:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
Yeah, I guess I was sort of undercutting the value somewhat by giving up an additional asset, but then realized that from the Bruins' side of things they seemed okay with including Knight with the 1st and Marchand for just Kane.

Also just to note that what I meant was if Enstrom was willing to sign an extension with the Bruins, but had no intention of re-signing with the Jets meaning they either move him or he goes to free agency.

From a Bruins' standpoint, I wouldn't trade Krejci if I wasn't guaranteed that Enstrom would re-sign. In cases like that would teams allow other teams to talk to the player or does that break some rule?
I think teams would allow a GM to speak to a player about a possible extension before a trade. I can't say for sure though. I certainly would want the Jets to do the same thing if the roles were reversed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg4167 View Post
I would love Kane on the Bs, but this is a vast overpayment on part of the Bruins. Boston prob wouldn't even do Hamilton for Kane straight up...the other part of the deal would work for me Krejci and a draft pick/prospect would work.
I can understand Bruins fans liking Hamilton, but I'm just not seeing the logic here (aside from the idea that he represents value at a specific position to the org).

I can't see any way that guys like Kane, Doughty, or Pieterangelo are even discussed for Hamilton and yet it seems like some Bruins fans wouldn't trade him if they were.

That seems like Jets, Kings, and Blues fans saying that they wouldn't trade Scheifele, Toffoli, or Tarasenko for Seguin.

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05-17-2012, 03:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I think teams would allow a GM to speak to a player about a possible extension before a trade. I can't say for sure though. I certainly would want the Jets to do the same thing if the roles were reversed.



I can understand Bruins fans liking Hamilton, but I'm just not seeing the logic here (aside from the idea that he represents value at a specific position to the org).

I can't see any way that guys like Kane, Doughty, or Pieterangelo are even discussed for Hamilton and yet it seems like some Bruins fans wouldn't trade him if they were.

That seems like Jets, Kings, and Blues fans saying that they wouldn't trade Scheifele, Toffoli, or Tarasenko for Seguin.
The Bruins would make those trades in a heartbeat. Hamiltons going to be a stud, but those three are ALREADY studs, and would make the team better instantly.

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05-17-2012, 04:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
The Bruins would make those trades in a heartbeat. Hamiltons going to be a stud, but those three are ALREADY studs, and would make the team better instantly.
True.
What do you think of Hamilton & Marchand for Kane?

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05-17-2012, 04:10 PM
  #64
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
True.
What do you think of Hamilton & Marchand for Kane?
Nah I wouldnt do that, Marchand is a great 50-60 point winger who agitates at the same time. Hes also a staple in Boston right now, so he probably has more value to us.

Youd have to throw something else in I think.

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05-17-2012, 04:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Consider it?

Bogosian is not going anywhere.

I can understand Bruins fans not wanting to trade Hamilton as he is a natural replacement for Chara.

But it's kind of funny that in this thread it's gone from a Bruins fan not wanting to trade Hamilton for Kane, Doughty, or Pieterangelo, to the Jets adding to Bogosian to get Krejci?
No kidding Bogosian's not going anywhere. We are talking hypothetically. .

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05-17-2012, 04:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I would say that Bogosian is a lot closer to being a stud, then Hamilton having anywhere near the value of Doughty and Pieterangelo , which you seemed to only want to "consider".
I never said Hamiltons' value = Doughty or Petriangelo.

Doughty's cap hit is too rich for this fan,, considering Chara is already making 7.5m per.

As far as Petriangelo is concerned, he's a fine player, but its my belief that Hamilton may end up being the better dman one day. Hamilton is cost controlled for the next 3 seasons, which (as I stated in my other post which you obviously ignored) fits in perfectly w/ the age group of Boston's main players. Chara imo has about 3 to 5 years of top level play left in him before he starts to show his age. Hamilton on an ELC for the next 3yrs works perfectly w/ Chara's age.

Bogosian is FAR from a "stud". Infact I'd argue he's been more dud than stud. He's still young enough to turn his game around, but to label him a stud after the hype he had and the mediocre results he's produced is a joke.

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05-17-2012, 04:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I never said Hamiltons' value = Doughty or Petriangelo.

Doughty's cap hit is too rich for this fan,, considering Chara is already making 7.5m per.

As far as Petriangelo is concerned, he's a fine player, but its my belief that Hamilton may end up being the better dman one day. Hamilton is cost controlled for the next 3 seasons, which (as I stated in my other post which you obviously ignored) fits in perfectly w/ the age group of Boston's main players. Chara imo has about 3 to 5 years of top level play left in him before he starts to show his age. Hamilton on an ELC for the next 3yrs works perfectly w/ Chara's age.

Bogosian is FAR from a "stud". Infact I'd argue he's been more dud than stud. He's still young enough to turn his game around, but to label him a stud after the hype he had and the mediocre results he's produced is a joke.
Honest and legitimate question: How many games did you watch him play this year?

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05-17-2012, 04:35 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
Honest and legitimate question: How many games did you watch him play this year?
Less than a dozen, and?

Admittedly he was a more solid defender this season, but he does nothing special imo. 5g 25a is good, but not "stud". Perhaps are difference in opinion hinges on our definition of stud?

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05-17-2012, 04:38 PM
  #69
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[QUOTE=MISC;49780781]I hate both teams for different reasons.

Obviously, still bitter about losing to the B's in the SCF. I was born in Winnipeg and spent 19 years in that cesspool, BUT all that hate shouldn't stand in the way of a good hockey trade!

To Boston

Kane, Evander


To Winnipeg

Krejci, David.
Hamilton, Dougie.
2nd round pick.




Kane epitomizes the Bruins game/system. Young, mean, fights and is a brilliant winger. Every pore in my body would resonate with jealousy if Kane had a B on his chest, but he would be unreal with them.


Winnipeg needs depth at C, desperately and Hamilton helps a much needed prospect pool as well as the 2nd rounder.

(QUOTE]

Wow! People should do some homework before they post possible trade values.

Let's see. Kane is a RFA at 3.1 million and looking for a raise. He is a left winger who has some issues himeself.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-improve-image

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1088805

Kane's stats

2009-10 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 66 14 12 26 62
2010-11 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 73 19 24 43 68
2011-12 Winnipeg Jets NHL 74 30 27 57 53

Versus

David Krejci who has a 3 year contract at 5.25 million. He is a centerman which holds more value and is the top centerman of the Bruins. As many know, how Krejci plays impacts how the Bruins do. Examples would be his loss in the playoffs against the Flyers, his impressive playoff run last years as the leading point getter and his lack of playoff production this playoff season where the Bruins got eliminated by the Capitals. That tells you how impactful his play is on Boston's success.
Could the Bruins move him? Possible. But to think Evander Kane is worth more than Krejci alone is a bit silly.

Krejci's stats

2008-09 Boston Bruins NHL 82 22 51 73
2009-10 Boston Bruins NHL 79 17 35 52
2010-11 Boston Bruins NHL 75 13 49 62
2011-12 Boston Bruins NHL 79 23 39 62

His playoff stat from last year

2010-2011 Bruins 25 12 11 23

Check out the stats. Krejci has a Stanley Cup. Led the team with 23 points.
Kane's day might come, but he is not Krejci plus in a trade.

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05-17-2012, 04:40 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Less than a dozen, and?

Admittedly e was a more solid defender this season, but he does nothing special imo. 5g 25a is good, but not "stud". Perhaps are difference in opinion hinges on our definition of stud?
Less than a dozen, like 11 or like 3? It matters because it helps me assess how much you are talking out your ass when you say he's closer to a dud than a stud. Looking at Bogosian's numbers is not a good way to assess his value. He got very unlucky to score as few goals as he did this past season. I would estimate he hit upwards of 15 posts.

My point is that he skates well, has a cannon of a shot, defends well, hits like a truck, moves the puck well and is 21 years old. I'd like you to explain how that borders on dud.

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05-17-2012, 04:55 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
Less than a dozen, like 11 or like 3? It matters because it helps me assess how much you are talking out your ass when you say he's closer to a dud than a stud. Looking at Bogosian's numbers is not a good way to assess his value. He got very unlucky to score as few goals as he did this past season. I would estimate he hit upwards of 15 posts.

My point is that he skates well, has a cannon of a shot, defends well, hits like a truck, moves the puck well and is 21 years old. I'd like you to explain how that borders on dud.
So your argument is Bogosian hit 15 posts? He's the only NHL player who hits posts?

Your description (bolded) pretty much describes Bruins dman Johnny Boychuk. And for Boychuk whom was a 3rd round draft pick (61st overall), he's had a good career thus far.

Bogosian was drafted 3rd overall, so while he is a solid dman, his draft status suggests he should be an impact player. He has not lived up to the billing (yet). He may fulfill his potential still (he's only 21), but as of yet he's had a rather mediocre career. My only beef with you is that you labeled Bogosian a "stud". He isn't imo.

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05-17-2012, 05:23 PM
  #72
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Yes I would. Not saying Id reject the idea.

Dougie is cost controlled for the next 3yrs. Which is a great lil window of opportunity for the Bruins, considering their core players are age early to mid 20's. Chara in 3yrs could start to decline. Having Hamilton on an ELC gives the Bruins a chance to win another Cup during that window.

Did I mention he's 19yrs old and already 6'5" 197lbs? In 3yrs he could potentially be playing at 220lbs. Great skating ability, very good puck skills. Sorry man, Boston hasn't drafted a dman w/ this much potential since Ray Bourque. Please understand this is why most us Bruins fans are so reluctant to part w/ Dougie.

With that said, Im a huge Kane fan. I'd looove for Chiarelli to work out a deal to get him in a Bruins jersey. Just not the deal the OP proposed.

As a fellow B's fan posted, I'd be ok with a: Marchand, Knight, 1st for Kane

But I understand if Jets fans decline.
At no point in the next 3 years will Hamilton be as good as Pietrangelo or Doughty are right now.

After 3 years? Who knows? And if Hamilton IS as good as you think, then he's going to have a huge salary.

I don't care if he is 6'5 or 6'8.... he's a prospect and IF everything works out great he might be NEARLY as good as those 2 guys.

No way I look to deal Hamilton... but he isn't untouchable.

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05-17-2012, 05:27 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
So your argument is Bogosian hit 15 posts? He's the only NHL player who hits posts?

Your description (bolded) pretty much describes Bruins dman Johnny Boychuk. And for Boychuk whom was a 3rd round draft pick (61st overall), he's had a good career thus far.

Bogosian was drafted 3rd overall, so while he is a solid dman, his draft status suggests he should be an impact player. He has not lived up to the billing (yet). He may fulfill his potential still (he's only 21), but as of yet he's had a rather mediocre career. My only beef with you is that you labeled Bogosian a "stud". He isn't imo.
Boychuk (who I happen to like) is nowhere near the player Bogosian is or will become.. Talent wise, Boychuk is not in Bogosian's league.

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05-17-2012, 05:27 PM
  #74
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Nope. I think Kane/Krejci are closer in value than what the deal suggests. Certainly not as much as the difference between a 2nd rounder and Hamilton.
I think this is true. Boston has to add something, but that something isn't Hamilton. But I think it can't be something minor either. I'd say Krejci + any prospect not named Hamilton would be close, with maybe Winn. adding something from their side depending on who that prospect is.

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05-17-2012, 05:59 PM
  #75
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At no point in the next 3 years will Hamilton be as good as Pietrangelo or Doughty are right now.

After 3 years? Who knows? And if Hamilton IS as good as you think, then he's going to have a huge salary.

I don't care if he is 6'5 or 6'8.... he's a prospect and IF everything works out great he might be NEARLY as good as those 2 guys.

No way I look to deal Hamilton... but he isn't untouchable.
Doughty $8m is the only detractor obviously. 15.5m on two dmen is not wise.

Petriangelo is very good, but again as I stated previously, Dougie is cost controlled for the next 3 years. Huge factor considering Chara's age. Maybe Hamilton will be as good or better than Petriangelo, maybe not, but Im willing to take that chance. The Ice DOogs coaching staff mentioned recently "Dougie Hamilton is the best defenseman I've ever coached",, keeping in mind this coach had Petriangelo on his squad just a few short yrs ago. Maybe he's talking out his arse? But it's certainly great to hear the high praise.

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