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Flames Rebuild

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:20 PM
  #426
blankall
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Leafs: 13 Cups
Oilers: 5 Cups
Flames: 1 Cup

The Oilers and Leafs are trending upwards and have solid young cores, and will only improve them with high picks this year. Calgary is stuck in the position the Leafs and Oilers were in from 2005-2008, not good enough to be a contender, but not bad enough to get a lottery pick. Sure, you can get lucky and nab a Sven Bartschi, but the Oilers nabbed Jordan Eberle and their retooling came to a crashing halt at the end anyways. The fact is, the Flames of now were the Leafs/Oilers of a few years ago, and we've all seen the situation play out. As an Oilers fan, I'm kind of hoping the Flames deal their 2014/2015 first round picks, because 2013 is the year Iginla's contract expires, and 2014 the year Kipper's contract expires. The team will be headed towards some very dark times these two years, and it would be hilarious for them to not get Aaron Ekblad and Connor McDavid out of it.
Firstly, I don't see what about the Leafs puts them on an "upward swing". We hear a ton about their prospects, but the only player so far to step up into anything that even remotely resembles a player you could build around is Kessel. He was dynamite in parts of the season, but pretty lackluster in others. He also becomes a UFA in two years.

Secondly, yes the Oilers have lots of young prospects/players (drafting first three years in a row will do that). However, they didn't choose that plan. It was thrust upon them.

Yes things got much worse for the Oilers/Leafs, but that doesn't mean that will happen to the Flames. There are plenty of teams that have managed to turn things around without tanking. Plus neither of the Oilers or Leafs have turned anything around. Why do we need to follow their model?

It also wasn't just the lack of "rebuild" on the Leafs that made them awful. They traded away first round draft picks and made awful awful free agent signings, which left them right up against the cap. And Toronto still seems to be making awful choices for free agents: Connolly, Komisarek, etc...

So as long as Feaster continues on his path, the Flames can avoid Toronto's fate. Obviously if the right deal for Iggy comes along, you trade him, but trading him for the sake of tanking is going to get you nowhere.

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Old
05-17-2012, 12:25 AM
  #427
trentmccleary
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
yes i get it, you think the flames are in a freefall and there is no way out unless they bottom out. good for you. i think making moves to intentionally make your team worse is pathetic and has no part in the game. i think trying to win is a sign of integrity
Gary Bettman & the Board of Governors intentionally made tanking a clear strategy to create more turnover in the CBA.

The people who enshrined tanking as a legit strategy are the ones who run the NHL and it's teams.

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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
and has drafting in the later middle of the 1st round hurt the Predators drafting? they are still one of the top prospect pools in the NHL.
Nashville's 1st round draft history isn't exactly very good.

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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Yes things got much worse for the Oilers/Leafs, but that doesn't mean that will happen to the Flames. There are plenty of teams that have managed to turn things around without tanking. Plus neither of the Oilers or Leafs have turned anything around. Why do we need to follow their model?
Don't follow their models. Follow the models of Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Carolina and to a lesser extent; Washington.

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Old
05-17-2012, 12:28 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Lanny Mcdonald View Post
Whole-sale Rebuilds are a thing of the past. Retooling is all thats needed to be done.
Yeah those are amazing.

Sincerely

Leafs fan

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05-17-2012, 05:55 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
the only "facepalm" is for you.

No team needs to do a scorched earth rebuild, all a team needs to do is draft well, make smart trades and make smart free agent signings.

To sell everything to intentionally become a bottom feeding loser is just stupid and goes against everything that sport exemplifies.

The Flames are actively getting younger, they are actively trying to improve their drafting (and scouting) and they are becoming more cost conscious than before. The is how they are rebuilding, and it is something they can and will do without throwing in the towel.
Oilers are the perfect example.

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Old
05-17-2012, 06:23 PM
  #430
blankall
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Yeah those are amazing.

Sincerely

Leafs fan
When your retooling involves trading away two first rounders and signing Jeff Finger, that's not a good start.

Do other Flames fans see this thread like a twisted version of the Christmas Carol. Fans from the other underachieving Canadian NHL teams constantly coming in here and telling us we have to change our ways:

Ottawa is the ghost of present.
Edmonton the future
Toronto the past?

Anyways, this thread sucks. Not a single suggestion here other than tank. Toronto, Edmonton, and Ottawa fans need to find another place to gripe.

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Old
05-17-2012, 06:57 PM
  #431
Trafalgar Law
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Originally Posted by abhanot View Post
Oilers are the perfect example.
I can't really tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but ever since 2010, aside from the Cam Barker and Ales Hemsky signings, which were both high risk, high reward moves, all the Oilers signings have been safe moves that don't hurt the team long term. Even an underachieving Eric Belanger doesn't hurt the team due to his low cap hit, and all the trades the Oilers have made have been to build towards the future or to set up a stopgap like the Nick Shultz trade. The Oilers have had two first overall picks, true, but we've also made solid picks with our later picks like Kelfbom, Marincin, Musil, Pitlick, Bunz, Gernat, Reider etc. Stu has also found this guy named Jordan Eberle with the 22nd overall pick a few years ago, I wonder how well known that guy is now.

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05-17-2012, 07:29 PM
  #432
JohnnyGoodDro
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
When your retooling involves trading away two first rounders and signing Jeff Finger, that's not a good start.

Do other Flames fans see this thread like a twisted version of the Christmas Carol. Fans from the other underachieving Canadian NHL teams constantly coming in here and telling us we have to change our ways:

Ottawa is the ghost of present.
Edmonton the future
Toronto the past?

Anyways, this thread sucks. Not a single suggestion here other than tank. Toronto, Edmonton, and Ottawa fans need to find another place to gripe.
in particular the edmonton and toronto fans. sorry the flames organization doesn't fold up and finish bottom 5 every year. at least when the flames are competing for 8th, we're competing. you guys compete as well, only for last place and a chance at first over all. and toronto, our 13th overall pick last year is better than anything you have in your organization, so keep drafting top 10. ps edmonton, are you guys getting any better yet?

ottawa fans are just excited about how much their team over achieved this season. and an over achievement for them is merely 2 points more than the horrible must rebuild now flames team. and that 90 points was considered a disappointment by flames fans and the organization.

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Old
05-17-2012, 07:47 PM
  #433
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The Flames have Iginla and Kipper to deal. That's 2 first round picks in 2013 if they're smart + an alright prospect (in the kipper deal) and a prospect with at least top 6 potential (Iginla) Include their own pick, and probably a 2nd round pick, or 2 from other trades, the Flames could be set in 2-3 years.

With that said, is Tim Jackman available ? More or less near the start of the season if the habs still need a bottom 6 guy.

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Old
05-17-2012, 07:51 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
in particular the edmonton and toronto fans. sorry the flames organization doesn't fold up and finish bottom 5 every year. at least when the flames are competing for 8th, we're competing. you guys compete as well, only for last place and a chance at first over all. and toronto, our 13th overall pick last year is better than anything you have in your organization, so keep drafting top 10. ps edmonton, are you guys getting any better yet?

ottawa fans are just excited about how much their team over achieved this season. and an over achievement for them is merely 2 points more than the horrible must rebuild now flames team. and that 90 points was considered a disappointment by flames fans and the organization.
Quite simply, yes.

As a team:
2011-2012: 74 points, 212 for, 239 against.
2010-2011: 62 points, 193 for, 269 against.
PP went from 30th to 3rd.
PK went from 29th to 14th.

Looking at the stats, Edmonton should have ended up 22nd, and drafted ~8th. Instead, they're about to draft Nail Yakupov. Unless Hemsky reverts to his prior form (and potentially even if he does,) Edmonton's top five scorers next season will be 23 or under. How much will Hopkins, Hall, and Eberle improve next year? If Yakupov improves Edmonton as much as Hopkins, how many point improvement will they have next year?

Will next year be the year that Edmonton starts to rise? Looking at the stats and the players, I'd say that it should be expected.

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