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Old
05-17-2012, 01:10 PM
  #176
hockeywoot
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I think a lot of teams would be interested in Nash.
However, I'm not sure who can give them the needed value in return.
(Though, Howson isn't the best GM.....so who knows)

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05-17-2012, 01:55 PM
  #177
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The bolded in my opinion would be the dealbreaker from the Rangers point of view. If i was a Rangers fan, i'd be pissed if this deal went through.

And frankly, is Nash really a necessity for the Rangers? it just seems like luxury to me.
Well maybe Stepan is replaced by JT Miller and a draft pick. Nash may seem like a luxury now but Gaborik scoring 40 was huge for NYR. IMO Nash is an upgrade on Gaborik and the Rangers need to find a goal scorer to replace Gaborik in two years

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05-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #178
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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San Jose and Boston have to be the front runners....

Toronto is a distant third

Chances he's back with Columbus or headed to Vancouver are very small.
While I agree Toronto is not the front runner I would put them ahead of SJ for sure.

SJ does not have the depth in young talent on the Farm to make a deal IMO and the Leafs have added quite a bit of young talent to the system over the last 2-3 years and that is not including the #5 pick this year With peices like Kadri, Colborne, Biggs, Percey, Gardiner, Blacker and Brad Ross + the 5th pick this year the Leafs have more to offer in terms of prospects then SJ does.

SJ does have higher quality Vets like Thornton and Marleau to offer most of those vets have either NTC or NMC and I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they would waive them for the jackets at this point.

it is because of that reason that I'm not sure SJ can be moved ahead of Toronto for Nash.

Boston is a whole different story they are ahead of us for sure if they want him but SJ? I'm not so sure about.

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05-17-2012, 03:46 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
While I agree Toronto is not the front runner I would put them ahead of SJ for sure.

SJ does not have the depth in young talent on the Farm to make a deal IMO and the Leafs have added quite a bit of young talent to the system over the last 2-3 years and that is not including the #5 pick this year With peices like Kadri, Colborne, Biggs, Percey, Gardiner, Blacker and Brad Ross + the 5th pick this year the Leafs have more to offer in terms of prospects then SJ does.
This is where your analysis breaks down. We really need roster forwards, not Even More Prospects. San Jose has those (Clowe and Pavelski being the ones that most grab our attention); it's a question of whether or not it's smart for them to give those guys up in a Nash trade.

Boston's similarly in the catbird seat simply because of David Krejci.

SJ's lack of prospect depth does make it awkward to balance a trade, but they're much better off than Toronto with regards to the centerpieces we'd be after. Toronto's notable top-6 forwards are, well, Lupul and Kessel; that's not a good place to start.

(Well, okay, Grabo gets some credit too. But he's not particularly desired.)

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05-17-2012, 05:29 PM
  #180
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Howson should've taken Sather's offer, now he'll never get that high. Suckering a GM on deadline day was a great use of hype, there'll be no dance partners at that price, not to mention the fact Howson threw Nash under the bus saying Nash asked for the trade.

Nash has all the power. Pittsburgh could offer Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Dupuis and Fleury plus their next 8 consecutive 1sts and Nash just has to say "No".

He has no reason to do any favours for Howson. Nash is going to the team Nash wants, and he's got no real loyalty to the Blue Jackets now so why would he let the Jackets gouge another team in a trade.

Who wants to be the guy that breaks up a dressing room full of guys? Nash will have input into the trade negotiations and guaranteed it'll be mainly prospects and picks.

And not too many, because Nash's contract is prohibitive if there aren't a lot of salaries coming the other way.

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05-17-2012, 05:31 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Howson should've taken Sather's offer, now he'll never get that high. Suckering a GM on deadline day was a great use of hype, there'll be no dance partners at that price, not to mention the fact Howson threw Nash under the bus saying Nash asked for the trade.

Nash has all the power. Pittsburgh could offer Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Dupuis and Fleury plus their next 8 consecutive 1sts and Nash just has to say "No".

He has no reason to do any favours for Howson. Nash is going to the team Nash wants, and he's got no real loyalty to the Blue Jackets now so why would he let the Jackets gouge another team in a trade.

Who wants to be the guy that breaks up a dressing room full of guys? Nash will have input into the trade negotiations and guaranteed it'll be mainly prospects and picks.

And not too many, because Nash's contract is prohibitive if there aren't a lot of salaries coming the other way.
So, basically, you think low of Howson, Nash, and the Columbus Blue Jackets all together. I'm therefore at a loss as to why this sort of thing should be taken seriously. It's as though it's an opinion formed exclusively through third-hand comments on the situation.


And, incidentally, Sather's rumored offer was the Rangers offering too many assets that Columbus had too many of already. It was pretty hopeless.

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05-17-2012, 05:51 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
This is where your analysis breaks down. We really need roster forwards, not Even More Prospects. San Jose has those (Clowe and Pavelski being the ones that most grab our attention); it's a question of whether or not it's smart for them to give those guys up in a Nash trade.

Boston's similarly in the catbird seat simply because of David Krejci.

SJ's lack of prospect depth does make it awkward to balance a trade, but they're much better off than Toronto with regards to the centerpieces we'd be after. Toronto's notable top-6 forwards are, well, Lupul and Kessel; that's not a good place to start.

(Well, okay, Grabo gets some credit too. But he's not particularly desired.)
I'm not saying these guys should be considered center peices to a Nash deal because they shouldn't but I think you are not giving enough credit to Kulemin or Macarthur

Granted Kuli had a down year last year but his point totals rose the 1st 3 years of his career including a 30 goal season and he's solid on D as well as cheap he made just 2.35 million last year plus he's got size and he's young.

C mac has also proven he can play in the top 6 with back to back 20+ goal seasons he is also relatively young and cheap at just over 3 million. His production did drop last year but that was mostly due to the drop in Kuli's production. Either guy would add speed to your lineup.

I'm not saying either guy should be the main component to a Nash trade because neither guy will be or should be.

What I am saying is I believe they can be in the deal and I think they are 2 guys the jackets would show interest in as both could play in the top 6 while both being relatively young and cheap. and fast.

Obiviously there would need to be more in there, a lot more I would think but they are parts that are worth looking at

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05-17-2012, 06:11 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
I'm not saying these guys should be considered center peices to a Nash deal because they shouldn't but I think you are not giving enough credit to Kulemin or Macarthur

Granted Kuli had a down year last year but his point totals rose the 1st 3 years of his career including a 30 goal season and he's solid on D as well as cheap he made just 2.35 million last year plus he's got size and he's young.

C mac has also proven he can play in the top 6 with back to back 20+ goal seasons he is also relatively young and cheap at just over 3 million. His production did drop last year but that was mostly due to the drop in Kuli's production. Either guy would add speed to your lineup.

I'm not saying either guy should be the main component to a Nash trade because neither guy will be or should be.

What I am saying is I believe they can be in the deal and I think they are 2 guys the jackets would show interest in as both could play in the top 6 while both being relatively young and cheap. and fast.

Obiviously there would need to be more in there, a lot more I would think but they are parts that are worth looking at
Hahaha...I agree with you. They're reasonable NHL players, and have some value in a trade - but they're not the kind that other teams covet. When Kulemin has more than 1 good year (production wise) his value will start to go up to where it should be. Till then, why would another team take that risk, especially heading into an RFA year.

Judging by a number of threads here, even Leaf fans would take Pavelski/Clowe over Kulemin/Mac

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05-17-2012, 06:25 PM
  #184
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Hahaha...I agree with you. They're reasonable NHL players, and have some value in a trade - but they're not the kind that other teams covet. When Kulemin has more than 1 good year (production wise) his value will start to go up to where it should be. Till then, why would another team take that risk, especially heading into an RFA year.

Judging by a number of threads here, even Leaf fans would take Pavelski/Clowe over Kulemin/Mac
I would take Clowe over Mac right now mostly due to the fact Clowe brings an element of size that we need.

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05-17-2012, 06:32 PM
  #185
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I agree. What rush is there? It's not as if NYR has any integral parts that are aging. In fact, most of their talent is still maturing. I'd be pretty surprised if they made a bigger offer for Nash this summer.
I still don't see Howson getting a better offer for Nash than the final offer that the Rangers sent. It's ridiculous that Sather even went that far. He was practically bidding against himself by the time the trade deadline came around. Couldn't see Nashville, a team that will have trouble signing both Suter and Weber adding on Nash, especially if they want to keep Radulov, San Jose doesn't have the pieces, and I don't think Nash wants to go to Toronto. Not sure they have the pieces to pull a deal anyway.

I think it's Rangers or bust, and I think Nash wants to push this on Columbus if anything. With the Rangers success in the playoffs, especially if they go to the finals, they'll go after Zach Parise first and then Nash as a backup plan if anything.

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05-17-2012, 06:37 PM
  #186
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I still don't see Howson getting a better offer for Nash than the final offer that the Rangers sent. It's ridiculous that Sather even went that far. He was practically bidding against himself by the time the trade deadline came around. Couldn't see Nashville, a team that will have trouble signing both Suter and Weber adding on Nash, especially if they want to keep Radulov, San Jose doesn't have the pieces, and I don't think Nash wants to go to Toronto. Not sure they have the pieces to pull a deal anyway.

I think it's Rangers or bust, and I think Nash wants to push this on Columbus if anything. With the Rangers success in the playoffs, especially if they go to the finals, they'll go after Zach Parise first and then Nash as a backup plan if anything.
The Leafs are on Nash's list according to Bobby Mack, DD, and Lebrun so I don't think he'd mind going there or they wouldn't be on his list.

Yes the maple Leafs do have the assets to get a deal done no doubt but they have other needs too like a goalie and a center so Nash might not be the first road traveled.

As for it being Rangers or Bust I don't think they push for him too hard if they go to the final or win they cup as they will have proven they can get there without him.

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05-17-2012, 06:39 PM
  #187
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Sharks have enough pieces IMO, just none they're willing to give up (or at least we think they won't). Gardiner+1st would get it done from the Leafs in my opinion, maybe add a salary dump. Pretty sure the Leafs are on Nash's list too, just to add... I know Burke used to have an unhealthy man crush on Nash, maybe he still does, and has changed his mind on trading Gardiner in order to acquire him after they missed the playoffs. Not to mention that would make them a more attractive free agent destination.

I still think he ends up in San Jose or Columbus, though..

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05-17-2012, 06:55 PM
  #188
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Sharks have enough pieces IMO, just none they're willing to give up (or at least we think they won't). Gardiner+1st would get it done from the Leafs in my opinion, maybe add a salary dump. Pretty sure the Leafs are on Nash's list too, just to add... I know Burke used to have an unhealthy man crush on Nash, maybe he still does, and has changed his mind on trading Gardiner in order to acquire him after they missed the playoffs. Not to mention that would make them a more attractive free agent destination.

I still think he ends up in San Jose or Columbus, though..
Me too, and I am not please. I honestly mean it that the most I would be willing to give up for Nash (alone) is Clowe, Niemi, (your choice of prospect) and a 2nd. Anything more than that and I am going to be pissed. We can't afford to give up assets anymore, especially for another $8m player.

All that said, I still fully expect DW to do it.

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05-17-2012, 07:06 PM
  #189
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What was the NYR offer at the deadline that keeps being referenced here?

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05-17-2012, 07:16 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by hockeywoot View Post
I think a lot of teams would be interested in Nash.
However, I'm not sure who can give them the needed value in return.
(Though, Howson isn't the best GM.....so who knows)
Say what you may about Howson, he's done an excellent job extracting maximum value from his trades, even when there's no leverage. He got a 1st- and 4th-rounder for Adam Foote, who was way past his prime and also said he would waive his NTC for Colorado only. He got a 1st-rounder and Jack Johnson (who's been exceptional) for a completely disinterested Jeff Carter.

If Nash managed to back him up completely against the wall, I still trust that Howson would get multiple excellent pieces for the team now and into the future.

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05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
  #191
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I still don't see Howson getting a better offer for Nash than the final offer that the Rangers sent.
In terms of sheer quantity of assets? Probably not. In terms of "better", particularly for Columbus? It'd be almost trivial to do, and if Nash goes anywhere it damn well better be better for us.

Seriously. Everyone talks about how that Rangers offer was so wonderful and great, but what we were getting were an undersized quality forward prospect (the kind we already have three of), a two-way quality defense prospect (the type we already have 4 or 5 of, plus they never bailed on a team), another C/W prospect who wasn't doing so well and of interest only 'cause he's from Ohio, a forward having a "down year" in which he was getting outscored by our third liners, and a draft pick.

In terms of assets being given up by the Rangers, that was overpayment. In practice, it was comparable to trying to pry Letang from Pittsburgh by offering Brad Richards and Derek Stepan.

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05-17-2012, 08:42 PM
  #192
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Me too, and I am not please. I honestly mean it that the most I would be willing to give up for Nash (alone) is Clowe, Niemi, (your choice of prospect) and a 2nd. Anything more than that and I am going to be pissed. We can't afford to give up assets anymore, especially for another $8m player.

All that said, I still fully expect DW to do it.
A guy who is a UFA in one year, a fringe starting goalie, a prospect and a 2nd? For one of the best goal scoring power forwards in the league?


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05-17-2012, 09:16 PM
  #193
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Wouldn't mind Pavelski, Doherty / Wingels, Stalock, and a 2nd for Nash

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05-17-2012, 10:01 PM
  #194
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Does Vancouver have anything Columbus would want? I'm going to assume the obvious package would have to include Schneider, but what else?

I think Booth would have to go the other way if Vancouver tries a pitch for Nash. He didn't have the best year, but he would still be an excellent stop gap in Columbus' stage of rebuilding. As we see from Florida, they went into complete rebuild mode but still ended up signing guys for the next 3-5 years that can carry the load while they do (Upshall, Fleischmann, Kopecky).

So, a goaltender, a bigger offensive winger, obviously a draft pick... But I don't think Schneider, Booth, and a 1st would be enough.

It doesn't really seem like you need Defense, having guys signed already and some pretty decent prospects.

So anything from Van?

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05-18-2012, 12:32 AM
  #195
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Vanek, Brennan,Enroth and Nashville's # 1



Nash and 2nd

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05-18-2012, 01:04 AM
  #196
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Does Vancouver have anything Columbus would want? I'm going to assume the obvious package would have to include Schneider, but what else?

I think Booth would have to go the other way if Vancouver tries a pitch for Nash. He didn't have the best year, but he would still be an excellent stop gap in Columbus' stage of rebuilding. As we see from Florida, they went into complete rebuild mode but still ended up signing guys for the next 3-5 years that can carry the load while they do (Upshall, Fleischmann, Kopecky).

So, a goaltender, a bigger offensive winger, obviously a draft pick... But I don't think Schneider, Booth, and a 1st would be enough.

It doesn't really seem like you need Defense, having guys signed already and some pretty decent prospects.

So anything from Van?
Given the choice between paying a king's ransom for Schneider, or pushing for a discount on Luongo, I'm taking the latter even if it means being saddled with a very long-term contract.

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05-18-2012, 08:40 AM
  #197
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Stuff I'm kicking around based on just the last couple pages. May need tweaks for whatever reasons (salary, value, whatever) but since I'm making this stuff up off the top of my head I reserve the right to let myself off the hook, and to change my mind.

Anyway, spitballing...

From TML:
5th overall + Schenn + Kulemin + Colborne

From SJS:
Pavelski + Clowe + something small-ish

From NYR:
Staal + Dubinsky + Miller

Haven't thought enough about BOS. I like Krejci, but can't come up with the rest.

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05-18-2012, 08:52 AM
  #198
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What was the NYR offer at the deadline that keeps being referenced here?
Dubinsky, Erixon, Miller, Thomas and their 1st round pick for Nash.

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05-18-2012, 11:51 AM
  #199
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So, basically, you think low of Howson, Nash, and the Columbus Blue Jackets all together. I'm therefore at a loss as to why this sort of thing should be taken seriously. It's as though it's an opinion formed exclusively through third-hand comments on the situation.


And, incidentally, Sather's rumored offer was the Rangers offering too many assets that Columbus had too many of already. It was pretty hopeless.
No I don't think poorly of Nash or the Blue Jackets organization and really have no issue with Howson.

I'm just sharing my opinion on the matter, like anyone else on this forum. Sather may have offered too much of something Columbus didn't need, but no one else seemed to really be kicking tires in that price range on Nash.

So what is going to happen when we get closer to the start of the regular season?

Will Howson say they haven't found a trading partner, will Nash please stay? Is Nash forced to play for the team? Is there really a desire to force a guy to play on your team when he doesn't want to?

If there is not real timeline for Nahs to be dealt, then Howson can wait for the right offer. Things didn't go like that in Ottawa when Heatley said he wanted out. Heatley even nixed a trade because he wasn't interested in playing in that city.

Nash seems a lot more of a team player, but only people who know him personally can assess that, and I won't pretend to be that. But how far will that go?

At some point a decision has to be made. Now that an offer has hit the market, the other GMs know what Howson is looking for, but they also know that there weren't any other offers near that mark.

I think at this point we'll see them sit back and watch the thumbscrews tighten on Howson's hands, and see if he jumps the gun. That would be sound business thinking.

I don't think other GMs want to stick out their own necks to get Howson what he wants at the expense of their own teams.

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05-18-2012, 11:57 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBills2012 View Post
Vanek, Brennan,Enroth and Nashville's # 1



Nash and 2nd
Brennan isn't of use over here. Also, "2nd" is ambiguous - if it's the 2nd overall, you need to add Roy or Pominville*, otherwise it's probably okay.

* By which I mean "Roy, obviously, although if you really, really want to send us Pominville we won't turn him down"

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