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NHL Trade Deadline pt 3 - (Feb 27th at 2 PM CST) Can a brother get a top 30 forward ?

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:50 PM
  #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I would have gladly given up a higher second round pick and the conditional plus Jeremy smith for vermette over ak46. I find north American players have way more desire to actually win a cup and it's not just all about the money like 'some' Europeans.

Not to mention if we had vermette rather than ak we would have had a lot more points for us and radulov wouldn't have had a bar partner to f everything up. But again, hindsight is 20/20.

I doubt we see either kostitsyn back next season, Sergei was terrible last 30 games.

Not really crazy about wanting radulov back either if we can get some good assets for him (defensively thinking if suter leaves) then use Wilson, Blum, lindback and picks/prospects to get big centre.

Radulov always looked angry, don't think I ever seen him smile since he came back. Unless he was drunk at a bar maybe outside of Glendale lol.
You act as though trades happen in a vacuum and that one team's offer would be accepted if from another team ... say one in the division vs one out of the division. Even in your vacuum, the Preds lacked the higher second round pick to trade and with Columbus's goalie injury issues this season it's debatable that they'd take a goalie with no NHL experience over one with 69 games in the big league.


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05-17-2012, 10:52 PM
  #952
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not necessarily racist but north american players probably care alot more about winning a cup than over-seas players.. as im sure north american players in russia probably aren't as thrilled about being over there

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05-17-2012, 10:55 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
Wow, just wow. And on some people dare to call my remarks racist
I guess when the trades were made Poile was looking at players stats not assuming that a NA player will have more points in PO over European. Just looking at their stats at contracts before the PO
Vermette 42 games 4 goals and 4 assists 3.75 mil contract for 4 more years
AK-46 41 games 11 goals and 8 assists 3.25 mil last year contract

Absolutely obvious to me who I would bet on if I needed a boost for a PO run
Some people depend on hindsight. Little things like what teams were looking for in trade, performance of players, or that what a player does on one team doesn't mean that they would have performed identically on another team mean nothing in the pseudo analysis.

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05-17-2012, 10:56 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
not necessarily racist but north american players probably care alot more about winning a cup than over-seas players.. as im sure north american players in russia probably aren't as thrilled about being over there
So just jingoistic, xenophobic ranting?

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05-17-2012, 11:48 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
not necessarily racist but north american players probably care alot more about winning a cup than over-seas players.. as im sure north american players in russia probably aren't as thrilled about being over there
I'm working with a Russian guy. All he cares is NHL and PO in particular. All he talks about is PO, he knows more about NHL than I do and anyone else I know. I haven't seen anyone in my life who is so exited about NHL off season and who is so depressed when his team losses. I'm sure if he played hockey he would give all his heart on a rink especially in PO. What I'm saying it is rather individual than cultural.
The other thing is that NHL is the best league in a world. Not even arguably it just is. That's where best players play and that's where you prove you're best. So comparison to Russia is kinda pointless. Should Russian or let's say Chinese league become the best in the world I'm sure NA players will care about winning in that new best league. Just because it will be the best league.
But there some things you can't change. And that is culture. The same Russian guy for example tells me that back in Europe your contract (wages) says a lot about your role. Him for example won't do more or work faster than a guy who is paid more than him. He won't show anyone he knows something better than our boss for example just cuz of respect to the boss and cuz according to him he should stick to his role in a company. I personally don't care, I just get it done and make thinking later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
the pseudo analysis.
The pseudo analysis says some very simple things. If for example Vermette won't produce Nashville after this trade will have another 3-rd line center (in addition to two they already have) with almost 4 mil in salary cap.
There is a saying. I'm not sure who told me and what language it is coming from (I have many friends from different cultures). But the saying is "If one knew where he is about to fall he would probably lay a pillow there". This saying is so good about judging trades after we all know how did they work or not work for teams

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05-18-2012, 05:38 PM
  #956
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Ok, I can see the point about maybe vermette wouldn't have performed as well here as he did with the dogs. And if ak didn't go out pounding drinks with our most talented forward maybe things would have been different. I'm not blaming poile because he did the best he could at the deadline and also made huge offer for Rick Nash, could not have done more. I brought this thread back up because of 'hindsight'. Just to get some views from some people on if they thought moves made looked better at the time then they do now as we got eliminated again in second round.

To the poster talking about racism, I'm sorry but you are just looking to bicker with me I feel IMO, if that was considered racism then why isn't don cherry fired? He always rants about how Canadian (Ontario born in particular) are the guys you win cups with and the guys who care the most about winning rather than big contracts. I feel to a certain extent it's true and will not retract my statement as everyone is entitled to an opinion. I agree with mr.cherry's opinion.

North American boys grow up watching the NHL with their father and grandfathers just dreaming about winning a Stanley cup in the NHL (not khl). They play road hockey and pretend to be Wayne Gretzky scoring the overtime winner to win the cup. It's a big time dream for any north American men who are into playing organized hockey.
For example, look at the 1990 oilers, those guys took lower contracts to keep the team together because they were so good. Team had Gretzky, messier, anderson, Coffey, ranford, etc, but at same time did have tikannen and kurri who were just as dedicated. How about the penguins the next two following years?? Lemieux, Francis, tocchet, Stevens, Coffey, barasso, Mullen. And also had jagr. I'm just trying to say big time teams in history had lots of Canadian/american talent more than European.

There are some Europeans who are extremely dedicated to winning a cup. But overall it's more of a north American thing to want the cup almost as much as the cash. Europeans leave their families back home mainly for big bucks 'not always' for a cup, but more often for cash.
Even look at our deadline pickups,
Gill was solid, same with gaustad, ak was a ****** and didn't care about playoffs as much.

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05-18-2012, 06:26 PM
  #957
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Ducks fan coming in peace: I'm not dropping by to make an offer, but I was wondering, do you guys think that the benching of Wilson and Smith means that either of them would be available? Thanks ahead of time for any responses.

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05-18-2012, 06:54 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Ducks fan coming in peace: I'm not dropping by to make an offer, but I was wondering, do you guys think that the benching of Wilson and Smith means that either of them would be available? Thanks ahead of time for any responses.
For Bobby Ryan? Sure.

For mid-tier pieces? Nope.

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05-18-2012, 07:07 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
For Bobby Ryan? Sure.

For mid-tier pieces? Nope.
Just to clarify, not trying haggle, you're saying that they're basically untouchable unless first line talent hits the block?

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05-18-2012, 07:22 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Just to clarify, not trying haggle, you're saying that they're basically untouchable unless first line talent hits the block?
Yep. You aren't going to get our best young offensive pieces for mid-tier stuff.

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05-18-2012, 07:48 PM
  #961
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Yep. You aren't going to get our best young offensive pieces for mid-tier stuff.
Cool. Thanks for the input.

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05-18-2012, 07:49 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post

North American boys grow up watching the NHL with their father and grandfathers just dreaming about winning a Stanley cup in the NHL (not khl). They play road hockey and pretend to be Wayne Gretzky scoring the overtime winner to win the cup. It's a big time dream for any north American men who are into playing organized hockey.
For example, look at the 1990 oilers, those guys took lower contracts to keep the team together because they were so good. Team had Gretzky, messier, anderson, Coffey, ranford, etc, but at same time did have tikannen and kurri who were just as dedicated. How about the penguins the next two following years?? Lemieux, Francis, tocchet, Stevens, Coffey, barasso, Mullen. And also had jagr. I'm just trying to say big time teams in history had lots of Canadian/american talent more than European.

There are some Europeans who are extremely dedicated to winning a cup. But overall it's more of a north American thing to want the cup almost as much as the cash. Europeans leave their families back home mainly for big bucks 'not always' for a cup, but more often for cash.



So Patrick O'Sullivan > Martin Hanzal?
Krahn > Rinne?
Hutchinson > Lidstrom?

Cherry's rants make no sense ... the concept that a team can't win with a Euro captain is disproved ... for every non-NA player you can name that either doesn't show the heart you desire or vanishes, a NA player can be named just as easily.

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05-18-2012, 11:02 PM
  #963
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All I know is, I wish we kept that 1st as it seems like Gaustad is leaving.

He was cool, but we could have gotten a similar player without giving up a first.

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05-18-2012, 11:57 PM
  #964
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Where do you get these comparisons below? Seem kind of random.
You may think don cherry is not hockey smart but I (along with millions of others) think he is very knowledgeable in NHL hockey and knows what he is talking about. He makes a lot of great points, picks up a lot of the 'small things' in the game and is usually dead on when he predicts things. Don cherry is a hockey god some may say.

Just a side question, how many european players have ever captained a team to a cup? Lidstrom? Chara? And every other cup winning team in NHL history had a north American captain.
Not putting down European hockey players skills because there are some very elite european players playing overseas and in the NHL. I just think the main thing that lures them to a foreign land is cash more than glory.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post


So Patrick O'Sullivan > Martin Hanzal?
Krahn > Rinne?
Hutchinson > Lidstrom?

Cherry's rants make no sense ... the concept that a team can't win with a Euro captain is disproved ... for every non-NA player you can name that either doesn't show the heart you desire or vanishes, a NA player can be named just as easily.

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05-19-2012, 12:00 AM
  #965
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When north American players go overseas to play in the khl, do you think they would go more for the paycheck to support themselves/family or to 'win the khl championship'?

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05-19-2012, 12:10 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
When north American players go overseas to play in the khl, do you think they would go more for the paycheck to support themselves/family or to 'win the khl championship'?
Money money money money money

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05-19-2012, 12:13 AM
  #967
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Money money money money money
Exactly! And I would imagine it works both ways.

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05-19-2012, 12:13 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by transcend View Post
All I know is, I wish we kept that 1st as it seems like Gaustad is leaving.

He was cool, but we could have gotten a similar player without giving up a first.
don't take this personally, but statements like this are just crap when made three months after the trade deadline.

care to tell me who we could have had and for what price that would have provided what we believed we were getting with gaustad?

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05-19-2012, 12:15 AM
  #969
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Just was thinking,
Toronto wants a young offensive centre and Colin Wilson could easily be that. And if suter departs, just wondering what the chances would be of us adding to Colin Wilson to acquire Luke schenn?

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05-19-2012, 12:19 AM
  #970
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Just was thinking,
Toronto wants a young offensive centre and Colin Wilson could easily be that. And if suter departs, just wondering what the chances would be of us adding to Colin Wilson to acquire Luke schenn?
I thought Schenn was turning out to be not nearly as good as his draft position would indicate??

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05-19-2012, 12:58 AM
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Where do you get these comparisons below? Seem kind of random.
You may think don cherry is not hockey smart but I (along with millions of others) think he is very knowledgeable in NHL hockey and knows what he is talking about. He makes a lot of great points, picks up a lot of the 'small things' in the game and is usually dead on when he predicts things. Don cherry is a hockey god some may say.

Just a side question, how many european players have ever captained a team to a cup? Lidstrom? Chara? And every other cup winning team in NHL history had a north American captain.
Not putting down European hockey players skills because there are some very elite european players playing overseas and in the NHL. I just think the main thing that lures them to a foreign land is cash more than glory.
If you're going to say North Americans are more driven to win the Cup than Euros, than any NA player is therefore a better choice so the comparisons aren't random at all. What you're proposing is flawed logic. Don Cherry's frames of reference are 30+ years old. If NA players are the better choice, man up and propose that we dump Hornqvist, Erat, AK, SK, Radulov, Josi, Rinne, Lindback, Puustinen, Ekholm, Engren, and Hellberg. Cherry also rants against the Quebecois ... so I guess we should get rid of Bourque too and we could then toss in Bouillon as well.

Sorry ... I'll keep the groups that Cherry rants against and leave the xenophobic hockey rants to those who can't remember that it's a game where the ultimate trophy is a silver bowl from a London shop bought by the British Lord Governor.

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05-19-2012, 01:06 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I thought Schenn was turning out to be not nearly as good as his draft position would indicate??
Get him out of spotlight in toronto, I think he will be just fine, besides Colin Wilson is not exactly been living up to his name.

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05-19-2012, 01:12 AM
  #973
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Outside of erat, what did any of them do? Rinne let in 4.5 gaa in first two games against coyotes which still baffles me because he is usually so amazing. I believe rinne is s driven european as well as erat. But the rest of your list are good players, but not overly playoffs driven.
What did ak and radulov do again? Oh yeah, that's right. Ruin everything as far as chemistry.
And how many points did sk and hornqvist get in total between
them??
And Josi was good but the rest didn't even play in playoffs.

Take away legwand, fish, weber, suter, Klein, gill, spaling, and yip and see how good we are as opposed to the players you mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
If you're going to say North Americans are more driven to win the Cup than Euros, than any NA player is therefore a better choice so the comparisons aren't random at all. What you're proposing is flawed logic. Don Cherry's frames of reference are 30+ years old. If NA players are the better choice, man up and propose that we dump Hornqvist, Erat, AK, SK, Radulov, Josi, Rinne, Lindback, Puustinen, Ekholm, Engren, and Hellberg. Cherry also rants against the Quebecois ... so I guess we should get rid of Bourque too and we could then toss in Bouillon as well.

Sorry ... I'll keep the groups that Cherry rants against and leave the xenophobic hockey rants to those who can't remember that it's a game where the ultimate trophy is a silver bowl from a London shop bought by the British Lord Governor.

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05-19-2012, 11:12 AM
  #974
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Outside of erat, what did any of them do? Rinne let in 4.5 gaa in first two games against coyotes which still baffles me because he is usually so amazing. I believe rinne is s driven european as well as erat. But the rest of your list are good players, but not overly playoffs driven.
What did ak and radulov do again? Oh yeah, that's right. Ruin everything as far as chemistry.
And how many points did sk and hornqvist get in total between
them??
And Josi was good but the rest didn't even play in playoffs.

Take away legwand, fish, weber, suter, Klein, gill, spaling, and yip and see how good we are as opposed to the players you mentioned.
Let's see ... that Russian guy Radulov was tied for the team point lead this post season. AK tied for the team goal lead. Hornqvist was busting his butt every shift after leading the team in regular season goals in two of the past three seasons.


Last edited by 101st_fan: 05-19-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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05-19-2012, 12:18 PM
  #975
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Let's see ... that Russian guy Radulov was tied for the team point lead this post season. AK tied for the team goal lead. Hornqvist was busting his butt every shift after leading the team in regular season goals in two of the past three seasons.
As I said, these guys get paid big bucks to put up points. And yes hornqvist led the team in points all season and yes radulov was tied for the team lead in points in playoffs.
Hornqvist - I never said he doesn't produce, because we pay him well because he does produce. But is he playing to just get points and make money or did he leave all of his family at home in Sweden just to win a cup because it's been his dream his whole life? The money isn't as important so he immigrated halfway across the world just to win a cup and not because he is good player and he got paid.

Radulov and ak- same as hornqvist and same as I have said a few times now. European players can produce points and that's why we pay them big bucks to come over here from their hometowns. There are tons of elite Europeans that will produce. My point with them was simply this,
If winning a cup was more important than just $$, why in the hell would two of your most talented players screw off during a pivotal point of the playoffs when your team needs you and you should be just living and breathing playoff hockey. But instead they took their dollar bills and said screw it, let's go get wasted until 5am when we have important playoff game tomorrow, not like we are getting paid extra for playoffs.

Did you see weber, fish, legwand, suter, Klein, Wilson (who was benches half the time and would have been frustrated), gill, etc going out getting hammered and coming to a PLAYOFF game hungover? Not a chance my friend.

This thread is going off topic though, we can agree to disagree because I don't think either of us will change our minds brother. We are all entitled to our opinions.

My bottom line,
Europeans come here for dollar bills, north Americans play for dollar bills as well, but have been brought up with their siblings and parents watching NHL hockey and dreaming of winning a cup their whole lives. And it works both ways. If Shea weber went to play in khl it would be for $$$, not to win the khl championship like some Europeans may value more than birth Americans because they grew up watching it. Cheers

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