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Old
05-17-2012, 09:58 PM
  #26
blasted_Sabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
Probably true since it's rumoured (or outright told, not sure) the leafs asked to get Schultz in that trade instead of Gardiner. However, Gardiner has made the jump to the NHL and played well so at least for now I would have to say Gardiner > Schultz although that can easily change after we see Schultz for a couple dozen NHL games.
Its not true at all anymore. Burke wouldnt trade Gardiner for Schultz today. Gardiner exceeded all expectations. No one expected him to play as well as he did.

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Old
05-17-2012, 09:58 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
Probably true since it's rumoured (or outright told, not sure) the leafs asked to get Schultz in that trade instead of Gardiner. However, Gardiner has made the jump to the NHL and played well so at least for now I would have to say Gardiner > Schultz although that can easily change after we see Schultz for a couple dozen NHL games.
That's fair. It depends on how risk averse your team is. Either way, I don't think Gardiner would go 2nd overall in this 2012 draft. That's not to say he couldn't become better than everyone else in the 2012 draft - it's just unlikely.

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05-17-2012, 10:00 PM
  #28
Badger Mayhew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Colbrone,Gunnarson,Kulemin,2nd for NYI 4th overall

Kadri,Schenn,Bozak for Duchene

D'Amigo,Holzer,Reimer,3rd for Luongo

Get rid of L.A.C.K somehow

Draft-Galchenyuk 4th overall & Forseberg 5th overall

Sign-Suter,Penner,Schultz,Semin,Stoll

Lupul-Duchene-Kessel
Grabo-Gally-Forseberg
Penner-Stoll-Macarthur
Crabb-Steckel-Brownie

Suter-Phaneuf
Schultz-Gardiner
Liles-Franson/Holzer

Luongo
Scrivens
I'm asking fans of other teams to make proposals, not the other way around. Otherwise this will turn into another "LOL Leaf fans" topic, when all I want is to get a realistic feel for what could be accomplished this off season.

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:01 PM
  #29
Falcons93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Morrow for Bozak+Gunnarson?
or
Morrow for Liles?
First one - absolutely not.
Second one - sure, why not?

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:02 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Huge for Nuge View Post
Strome + 4th for Gardiner + Kadri + 2nd

idk, just throwing **** out there.
lol no chance.

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
J Schultz > Gardiner (according to the coach of both)
J Schultz was said to go 5-10th in this draft...ergo...
Gardiner > Schultz in terms of success in the NHL.

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
That's fair. It depends on how risk averse your team is. Either way, I don't think Gardiner would go 2nd overall in this 2012 draft. That's not to say he couldn't become better than everyone else in the 2012 draft - it's just unlikely.
Agreed, Gardiner is a few years older then the others so you have to try and project down the road a little. Murray is said by some to be NHL ready now, in 3 years you have to imagine he would be pretty good then. I would say Gardiner would be drafted higher then what he was taken in his year (17th) but don't think he would be a top 5

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Colbrone,Gunnarson,Kulemin,2nd for NYI 4th overall

Kadri,Schenn,Bozak for Duchene

D'Amigo,Holzer,Reimer,3rd for Luongo

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:26 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Sign-Suter,Penner,Schultz,Semin,Stoll

I always get a good laugh on these... bunch of trades then oh just go ahead and sign the best Dman (and player) in free agency, the best scorer (assuming Parise resigns) etc.

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:50 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Colbrone,Gunnarson,Kulemin,2nd for NYI 4th overall

Kadri,Schenn,Bozak for Duchene

D'Amigo,Holzer,Reimer,3rd for Luongo

Get rid of L.A.C.K somehow

Draft-Galchenyuk 4th overall & Forseberg 5th overall

Sign-Suter,Penner,Schultz,Semin,Stoll

Lupul-Duchene-Kessel
Grabo-Gally-Forseberg
Penner-Stoll-Macarthur
Crabb-Steckel-Brownie

Suter-Phaneuf
Schultz-Gardiner
Liles-Franson/Holzer

Luongo
Scrivens
Sign one of the best scorers on the market. Leave out of lineup.

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:56 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bonecrusher11 View Post
Sign one of the best scorers on the market. Leave out of lineup.
Uh, Semin's not good enough to crack that killer lineup dude

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Old
05-17-2012, 10:57 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bonecrusher11 View Post
Sign one of the best scorers on the market. Leave out of lineup.
Marlies might have a title to defend..

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Old
05-17-2012, 11:11 PM
  #38
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Not taking anything away from Gardiner... But he was a part of a pretty weak class of Rookie D-men this past season was he not? I mean, There wasnt a great Dman to compare with just a bunch of people ready to make the jump but not into a huge role.

Not taking anything away from him, but I mean if some people really believe that he wouldn't be traded for the 2nd pick in the draft are crazy... Ryan Murray will most certaintely be at his level, if not better. Matt Dumba has that same chance. Trouba I personally would take over him because of the size and defensive play. Morgan Reilly is 50-50 with me for him and Gardiner.

If you look at the past few years for rookie D-men, it seems that this past season wasa huge drop off in talent. His rookie year compares to Jamie Mcbain, who is a great young player but not at the talent level that some of the players in this draft are at.

I get it, you have a great young defensmen for your team that you value highly, but he isnt on the level as some of the other young dmen in this league and if Burke passed up on the chance to trade him for another top 5 pick in this draft he would be crazy.

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Old
05-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Not taking anything away from Gardiner... But he was a part of a pretty weak class of Rookie D-men this past season was he not? I mean, There wasnt a great Dman to compare with just a bunch of people ready to make the jump but not into a huge role.

Not taking anything away from him, but I mean if some people really believe that he wouldn't be traded for the 2nd pick in the draft are crazy... Ryan Murray will most certaintely be at his level, if not better. Matt Dumba has that same chance. Trouba I personally would take over him because of the size and defensive play. Morgan Reilly is 50-50 with me for him and Gardiner.

If you look at the past few years for rookie D-men, it seems that this past season wasa huge drop off in talent. His rookie year compares to Jamie Mcbain, who is a great young player but not at the talent level that some of the players in this draft are at.

I get it, you have a great young defensmen for your team that you value highly, but he isnt on the level as some of the other young dmen in this league and if Burke passed up on the chance to trade him for another top 5 pick in this draft he would be crazy.
Scoring was down this season. Anyways, over the past five seasons, the only d-men above him in rookie scoring are Shattenkirk, Fowler, Subban, Carlson, Myers, Del Zotto, Enstrom, Johnson, and Gilbert. Some of the best defensemen in the game like Karlsson and Doughty didn't score as much as Gardiner.

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Old
05-17-2012, 11:32 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
Scoring was down this season. Anyways, over the past five seasons, the only d-men above him in rookie scoring are Shattenkirk, Fowler, Subban, Carlson, Myers, Del Zotto, Enstrom, Johnson, and Gilbert. Some of the best defensemen in the game like Karlsson and Doughty didn't score as much as Gardiner.
Karlsonn didnt play as many games as Gardiner and Doughty was 2 years younger. Also, Doughty had a huge season the year after which I dont think Gardiner will have.

I'm not saying he was bad but there is some definate overvaluing IMO. He is to me, and fan of a different team, worth a 1st rounder around 10-15 this year or a proven 2b maybe 2a center on a team needing a D-man for this upcoming season. But I dont think that he is this untouchable figure that cant be had for a second overall pick.

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Old
05-18-2012, 01:07 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Straight up proposals from Leaf fans never seem to work out, so I'd like to flip things around.

In order of need, Leafs are missing:

1) #1 goalie (at least one that can start for 2-3 years while Reimer/Scrivens develop)
2) #1 centre
3) Power-forward in their Top 6
4) Veteran defense-man

Kessel is the only untouchable. Everyone else is fair game (including our #5)

For those teams willing to shop a player that fills one of our needs, what would you want coming back?
if you need that many pieces it's not really a re-toll is it?

if gardiner, lupul, kessel and so on are untouchables, the leafs do not have the pieces to get those you mentioned above ^.

sit tight, draft right is my suggestion.

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Old
05-18-2012, 01:27 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Colbrone,Gunnarson,Kulemin,2nd for NYI 4th overall

Kadri,Schenn,Bozak for Duchene

D'Amigo,Holzer,Reimer,3rd for Luongo

Get rid of L.A.C.K somehow

Draft-Galchenyuk 4th overall & Forseberg 5th overall

Sign-Suter,Penner,Schultz,Semin,Stoll

Lupul-Duchene-Kessel
Grabo-Gally-Forseberg
Penner-Stoll-Macarthur
Crabb-Steckel-Brownie

Suter-Phaneuf
Schultz-Gardiner
Liles-Franson/Holzer

Luongo
Scrivens

Yeah... not happening.

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Old
05-18-2012, 01:33 AM
  #43
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Gaborik + 1st + for Kessel?

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Old
05-18-2012, 02:06 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Karlsonn didnt play as many games as Gardiner and Doughty was 2 years younger. Also, Doughty had a huge season the year after which I dont think Gardiner will have.

I'm not saying he was bad but there is some definate overvaluing IMO. He is to me, and fan of a different team, worth a 1st rounder around 10-15 this year or a proven 2b maybe 2a center on a team needing a D-man for this upcoming season. But I dont think that he is this untouchable figure that cant be had for a second overall pick.
can i borrow your crystal ball?
Gardiner showed no sign that he couldn't improve on his total from last year. For the first half of the season, they couldn't even get him to shoot the puck. The only thing that may reduce his production is the change over to Carlyles system.

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Old
05-18-2012, 02:08 AM
  #45
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Yeah... not happening.
More like everything not happening including bolded.

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Old
05-18-2012, 03:04 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatic View Post
can i borrow your crystal ball?
Gardiner showed no sign that he couldn't improve on his total from last year. For the first half of the season, they couldn't even get him to shoot the puck. The only thing that may reduce his production is the change over to Carlyles system.
You don't need to be Nostradamus to suggest Gardiner won't have a Norris worthy sophomore season, which is what Doughty had.

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Old
05-18-2012, 06:26 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Not taking anything away from Gardiner... But he was a part of a pretty weak class of Rookie D-men this past season was he not? I mean, There wasnt a great Dman to compare with just a bunch of people ready to make the jump but not into a huge role.

Not taking anything away from him, but I mean if some people really believe that he wouldn't be traded for the 2nd pick in the draft are crazy... Ryan Murray will most certaintely be at his level, if not better. Matt Dumba has that same chance. Trouba I personally would take over him because of the size and defensive play. Morgan Reilly is 50-50 with me for him and Gardiner.

If you look at the past few years for rookie D-men, it seems that this past season wasa huge drop off in talent. His rookie year compares to Jamie Mcbain, who is a great young player but not at the talent level that some of the players in this draft are at.

I get it, you have a great young defensmen for your team that you value highly, but he isnt on the level as some of the other young dmen in this league and if Burke passed up on the chance to trade him for another top 5 pick in this draft he would be crazy.
So there is a 100% chance that all four of these defensemen will be better than Gardiner, let alone play in the NHL? Because Gardiner has already shown that he has the potential to be a great defenseman in the league, most likely similar to Duncan Keith. Why the hell would you trade a proven defenseman for an 18 year old kid who hasn't played a single pro game? Sounds like you've got a case of the shiny new toy syndrome, or you just haven't seen Gardiner play more than a couple of games. If he played for your team, I'm sure you would defend him to no end.

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Old
05-18-2012, 06:27 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Karlsonn didnt play as many games as Gardiner and Doughty was 2 years younger. Also, Doughty had a huge season the year after which I dont think Gardiner will have.

I'm not saying he was bad but there is some definate overvaluing IMO. He is to me, and fan of a different team, worth a 1st rounder around 10-15 this year or a proven 2b maybe 2a center on a team needing a D-man for this upcoming season. But I dont think that he is this untouchable figure that cant be had for a second overall pick.
Ok great you've said your piece.

I've watched him all season and he is a very special player. Carlyle said so, Wilson said so, analysts all said so and compares him to Niedermeyer and Coffey. He's a special player. It's scary to think that Gardiner only got his confidence offensively at the all star break and after that he produced at a 45 point pace.

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:00 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Ok great you've said your piece.

I've watched him all season and he is a very special player. Carlyle said so, Wilson said so, analysts all said so and compares him to Niedermeyer and Coffey. He's a special player. It's scary to think that Gardiner only got his confidence offensively at the all star break and after that he produced at a 45 point pace.
Even players around the league were calling him silver or something to that effect, as in silver fox or silver stick, because he plays such a composed game. He's a top-pairing D without a doubt.

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:05 AM
  #50
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1) Kulemin and Schenn for J. Staal
2) Reimer + something for Bernier (Franson? Pick? Prospect?)
3) Draft Galchenyuk (he may be gone before then)
4) Sign a veteran defenceman such as Oduya, Jackman, Allen, Roszival, etc

Trades may need to be tweeked, but I dont think value is terribly far off. Id also hope they draft a goalie with their 2nd round pick.

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