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General Talk '12 — U.S.A.

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Old
05-17-2012, 06:00 PM
  #951
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proud of these guys from top to bottom.

I have no complaints as everyone played their role and played like a team.

good mix of young guys and grinders, hopefully with Sochi coming next year will be loaded with top line players and top 4 dmen....though you never know.

this team did better then I expected and I wish we got a medal, I am still proud of them and how well they performed overall.

who would have thought we would have scored all these damn goals????

our defense is going to be wicked to play against from here on out...we have tons of players that can play up tempo offensive minded hockey : McDonagh, Shatty, Yandle, Suter, Gardiner, Faulk, Petry, McBain, JJ, Fowler, Carlson, Leddy, Goligoski, etc are all young and offensively skilled...this is only going to get better///

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05-17-2012, 06:34 PM
  #952
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Very disappointing loss tonight.

Everyone in the building knew that the US was the better team and even played the better game.

The first goal against was one Howard simply needed to have. He saw the puck all the way and it was a wrister from a good 15 feet or so out. Bad one to let in.

The second goal was a REAL bummer, because Johnson lost his stick, got one from a forward, then gave it back and then BOOM, the guy he was covering in front of the net tipped the puck in. There were less than 7 minutes to go in the game.

The GW unfortunately was a defensive breakdown and Joensuu was left alone a tick too long.

Otherwise, I was really, really surprised that the US didn't bring more pucks and traffic to the net. They were playing the second string goalie and he sometimes looked shaky. They didn't pressure him nearly enough.

In addition, that Finnish team didn't have ONE NHL defenseman on it. They were not the fastest and they were losing lots of corner battles. This wasn't effectively made use of by the US, which controlled the puck for large portions of the game.

Very, very disappointing loss.

I don't know which loss was more disappointing, this or Cananda's or Sweden's?

In any case, the only teams that look halfway capable of knocking off Russia are now out of the tournament.

I've gotta think we're in store for a Russia vs. Czech Republic final.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 05-18-2012 at 06:32 AM.
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05-17-2012, 06:59 PM
  #953
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At least the US team behaved more professionally on and off the ice than the Canadians. Yes, I just said that.

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05-17-2012, 07:05 PM
  #954
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At least the US team behaved more professionally on and off the ice than the Canadians. Yes, I just said that.
Bobby Ryan?

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05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
  #955
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Bobby Ryan?
No word yet on him hitting on former Miss Finland Sara Sieppi(unlike Getzlaf and Purcell).

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05-18-2012, 12:02 AM
  #956
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Anywhere I can find out how many goals against Jack Johnson was on the ice for this tourney?

I can see why his +/- is so brutal every year, yet Kings fans would continue to defend him. IDK why, he clearly is clueless without the puck.

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05-18-2012, 12:23 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Anywhere I can find out how many goals against Jack Johnson was on the ice for this tourney?

I can see why his +/- is so brutal every year, yet Kings fans would continue to defend him. IDK why, he clearly is clueless without the puck.
you know not what you speak of my friend...

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05-18-2012, 12:23 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
No word yet on him hitting on former Miss Finland Sara Sieppi(unlike Getzlaf and Purcell).
well all Getzlaf and Perry seemed to care about was partying and getting drunk, so why stop even in defeat eh?

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05-18-2012, 12:24 AM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Anywhere I can find out how many goals against Jack Johnson was on the ice for this tourney?

I can see why his +/- is so brutal every year, yet Kings fans would continue to defend him. IDK why, he clearly is clueless without the puck.
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/272/IHM2720USA_83_8_0.pdf

Click on the game summaries. They list the numbers of each player for every goal for & goal against


Last edited by Uncle Rotter: 05-18-2012 at 12:34 AM.
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05-18-2012, 12:25 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Bobby Ryan?
are you for real?

the guy is pissed that his team lost and he makes a blip on the radar comment and you act like that was disrespectful...come on man....

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05-18-2012, 12:28 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
you know not what you speak of my friend...
Really didn't impress me other than offensively, which I knew he was good at anyways.

Chris Butler was another guy who I thought was pretty bad all tourny. Not sure why he was on the team.

Justin Faulk on the other hand was great. 4 goals, 4 assists, wow. Pissed the Hawks passed on him in favor of Rensfeldt. Actually, pissed they took Rensfeldt over a lot of guys... especially the far superior Swedish prospect taken after him in Calle Jarnkrok. But Faulk had a really hard, accurate shot. He is going to be a good one.

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05-18-2012, 12:33 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Really didn't impress me other than offensively, which I knew he was good at anyways.

Chris Butler was another guy who I thought was pretty bad all tourny. Not sure why he was on the team.

Justin Faulk on the other hand was great. 4 goals, 4 assists, wow. Pissed the Hawks passed on him in favor of Rensfeldt. Actually, pissed they took Rensfeldt over a lot of guys... especially the far superior Swedish prospect taken after him in Calle Jarnkrok. But Faulk had a really hard, accurate shot. He is going to be a good one.
A. Jack Mother ****ing Johnson is the son of Jesus....its fact, look it up..

B. The amount of ice time that JJ gets is astounding....he is going to have hiccups at times with his physical play and offensive minded style...but still plays a pretty steady game.

C. plus minus is idiotic as I care less and less about that stat each year... JJ gets 24 minutes of ice time a game, dwarfing his teammates, ofcourse he is going to be on the ice for more goals against as he is the guy usually playing against the oppositions best...

D. Son of Jesus.....

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05-18-2012, 03:05 AM
  #963
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Jussi Jokinen said on an interview that it was the best Team USA he has ever seen in the Worlds, an extremely tight margin game. A lot of respect from Finnish analysts too for example.

The way US international program is progressing I like them a lot for the next Olympics.

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05-18-2012, 06:01 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by teme View Post
Jussi Jokinen said on an interview that it was the best Team USA he has ever seen in the Worlds, an extremely tight margin game. A lot of respect from Finnish analysts too for example.

The way US international program is progressing I like them a lot for the next Olympics.
What do you mean with that? Because their international program (sending good team to WC or what?) is progressing they will have a good team at next olympics?


Saw no mention of Petry and Butler here. Said this in GDT too, but damn were they brutal last night. Absolutely terrible. Petry was ok for the tournament until this game,imo.

JJ was solid throughout, small mistakes but that happens to every player.

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05-18-2012, 06:15 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Very disappointing loss tonight.

Everyone in the building knew that the US was the better team and even played the better game.

The first goal against was one Howard simply needed to have. He saw the puck all the way and it was a wrister from a good 15 feet or so out. Bad one to let in.

The second goal was a REAL bummer, because Johnson lost his stick, got one from a forward, then gave it back and then BOOM, the guy he was covering in from of the net tipped the puck in. There were less 7 minutes to go in the game.

The GW unfortunately was a defensive breakdown and Joensuu was left alone a tick too long.

Otherwise, I was really, really surprised that the US didn't bring more pucks and traffic to the net. They were playing the second string goalie and he sometimes looked shaky. They didn't pressure him nearly enough.

In addition, that Finnish team didn't have ONE NHL defenseman on it. They were not the fastest and they were losing lots of corner battles. This wasn't effectively made use of by the US, which controlled the puck for large portions of the game.
I dont know what game you were watching, US didnt play better. It was very even and both teams had their chances. Maybe US had couple more than us, but especially in the 3rd period we just started to look stronger and stronger while US got abit tired. Im quite sure that if the deflection goal by Koivu didnt go in we would've tied it anyways.

About the goals.. Yeah, Joensuu's shot was a shot that Howard could save, but it was a damn perfect shot and might've hit Butler's stick too. Im pretty sure that shot goes in more times than not against any goalie.

Besides, before Ryan scored the puck was cleared by our D but then it hit the ref's skate and stayed in the zone - seconds later Ryan scores. So some bad luck for us aswell.

I dont know how anyone can think that US were the better team in that game.

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05-18-2012, 06:46 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Saw no mention of Petry and Butler here. Said this in GDT too, but damn were they brutal last night. Absolutely terrible. Petry was ok for the tournament until this game,imo.

JJ was solid throughout, small mistakes but that happens to every player.
Yep, Petry had a few real boo-boos and coughed up the puck several times. Not solid.

Butler was -1 and I didn't really see him at all. I didn't notice his name even once. Strange, because he appearantly played almost 18 minutes.

Faulk, Fowler, Johnson and Goligoski were clearly the best and most active US Dmen.

Dwyer and Gordon's favorite player Thompson were each a -3. YIKES! They were supposed to be the 'defensive' guys.

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05-18-2012, 07:05 AM
  #967
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I dont know what game you were watching, US didnt play better. It was very even and both teams had their chances. Maybe US had couple more than us, but especially in the 3rd period we just started to look stronger and stronger while US got abit tired. Im quite sure that if the deflection goal by Koivu didnt go in we would've tied it anyways.

About the goals.. Yeah, Joensuu's shot was a shot that Howard could save, but it was a damn perfect shot and might've hit Butler's stick too. Im pretty sure that shot goes in more times than not against any goalie.

Besides, before Ryan scored the puck was cleared by our D but then it hit the ref's skate and stayed in the zone - seconds later Ryan scores. So some bad luck for us aswell.

I dont know how anyone can think that US were the better team in that game.
Then we clearly saw different games. That happens. I respect your points and understand where you're coming from with them.

As I saw it:
The US DOMINATED along the boards until the last 10 minutes of the game.

The US DOMINATED in puck control and puck possession, which however was something Finland knew would happen going in and thus, the laid back approach was obviously part of the game plan.

The US was MUCH BETTER at organizing a productive transition out of their own zone.

What I still don't understand is how come the US didn't just throw the puck at the goal and crash with EVERY opportunity. They kept playing the boards and cycling, cycling, cycling. It's like Gordon, a former goalie himself, didn't want them to 'warm up' Vehanen because, who knows, maybe he could get hot if he saw lots of pucks???

They should have shot and crashed with every opportunity. This certainly isn't the best goalie or best defense Finland could put out there. To be honest, this Finnish team only looks half as good as what I (felt) I saw in Bratislava last year.

Anyhow, the lack of urgency in Team USA's game really disappointed me.

Joensuu's wrister for the first goal was a bullet and very precise. Excellent shot. But when you're in the elimination stage, your goalie cannot let unscreened shots from 15-20 feet away go in. You just can't if you have any intention of winning.

I'll give you that with Ryan's goal coming after the unfortunate incident seconds before, just as Koivu's goal took incredible advantage of a stickless Johnson. Both teams experienced a few unfortunate bounces or shots that were going wide and hit some body and ended up staying in the zone or around the net (like with the gamewinner).

I'll also admit that Finland played its best hockey in the game in the last 7 or 8 minutes - and that was enough to win.

In my opinion, Gordon was outcoached, but the nominally better, stronger, more puck-possessing team was the US. If these two teams would play five times, the US would win four. This one they lost happened to be in the do-or-die playoffs. Shame on them for not wanting it more. There were times in last night's game where Finland just looked desperate to get the puck out of the zone. Had the US made it 3-1 in the third, it would have been over.

They didn't, they lost.

Same could be said of Canada when they were leading 3-2 for so long. Had they made it 4-2, that game is over. They didn't, they lost.

Lack of urgency in the scoring department damned the North Americans yesterday.

However, my biggest tournament thesis was once again reinforced yesterday: When two teams play each other in the preliminary round and then see each other again in the playoff round, the team that wins the first time most often loses the second time.

Norway was the one exception yesterday, but this Russian line-up is simply out of their league.

Sweden, Canada and US are out - three of the preliminary round's top 4 teams.

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05-18-2012, 07:15 AM
  #968
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I thought we did very good job along the boards considering our D is one of the worst of the "top 6" countries in this tournament.

US was better in some areas during the first half of the game, but definitely didnt dominate in my opinion..

Maybe crashing the net would've produced some goals as the north americans are usually better in front of the net but then again its all speculation. Its possible they wouldnt had scored any if they crashed the net more.

Anyways, good, even game in my opinion and it could've gone either way.

The last 10 minutes gave me some hope that we can challenge Russia and possibly win, its certainly not impossible. Our current style of play suits better against european teams, and their D isnt anything special.

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05-18-2012, 07:15 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Then we clearly saw different games. That happens. I respect your points and understand where you're coming from with them.

As I saw it:
The US DOMINATED along the boards until the last 10 minutes of the game.

The US DOMINATED in puck control and puck possession, which however was something Finland knew would happen going in and thus, the laid back approach was obviously part of the game plan.

The US was MUCH BETTER at organizing a productive transition out of their own zone.

What I still don't understand is how come the US didn't just throw the puck at the goal and crash with EVERY opportunity. They kept playing the boards and cycling, cycling, cycling. It's like Gordon, a former goalie himself, didn't want them to 'warm up' Vehanen because, who knows, maybe he could get hot if he saw lots of pucks???

They should have shot and crashed with every opportunity. This certainly isn't the best goalie or best defense Finland could put out there. To be honest, this Finnish team only looks half as good as what I (felt) I saw in Bratislava last year.

Anyhow, the lack of urgency in Team USA's game really disappointed me.

Joensuu's wrister for the first goal was a bullet and very precise. Excellent shot. But when you're in the elimination stage, your goalie cannot let unscreened shots from 15-20 feet away go in. You just can't if you have any intention of winning.

I'll give you that with Ryan's goal coming after the unfortunate incident seconds before, just as Koivu's goal took incredible advantage of a stickless Johnson. Both teams experienced a few unfortunate bounces or shots that were going wide and hit some body and ended up staying in the zone or around the net (like with the gamewinner).

I'll also admit that Finland played its best hockey in the game in the last 7 or 8 minutes - and that was enough to win.

In my opinion, Gordon was outcoached, but the nominally better, stronger, more puck-possessing team was the US. If these two teams would play five times, the US would win four. This one they lost happened to be in the do-or-die playoffs. Shame on them for not wanting it more. There were times in last night's game where Finland just looked desperate to get the puck out of the zone. Had the US made it 3-1 in the third, it would have been over.

They didn't, they lost.

Same could be said of Canada when they were leading 3-2 for so long. Had they made it 4-2, that game is over. They didn't, they lost.

Lack of urgency in the scoring department damned the North Americans yesterday.

However, my biggest tournament thesis was once again reinforced yesterday: When two teams play each other in the preliminary round and then see each other again in the playoff round, the team that wins the first time most often loses the second time.

Norway was the one exception yesterday, but this Russian line-up is simply out of their league.

Sweden, Canada and US are out - three of the preliminary round's top 4 teams.
Puck possession was 54-46 for Finland. Also, US had to start their attack from their own zone more often than Finland, though the difference was small, which means that overall Finland had a better forecheck. I agree that Jalonen outcoached his US colleague, he completely read the aggressive forecheck of the US forwards and adjusted the team. The game was completely different from the 5-0 game.

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05-18-2012, 07:43 AM
  #970
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Puck possession was 54-46 for Finland. Also, US had to start their attack from their own zone more often than Finland, though the difference was small, which means that overall Finland had a better forecheck. I agree that Jalonen outcoached his US colleague, he completely read the aggressive forecheck of the US forwards and adjusted the team. The game was completely different from the 5-0 game.
Some Finns noted that Kazahkstan used the same type/formation forecheck that the US used, so Finland got extra training on Monday how to play against it (and had some issues with it then). The coaching staff was able to react to it accordingly for the quarterfinal.

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05-19-2012, 02:49 AM
  #971
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I was positively surprised by the way that JJ and Fowler played together. The pairing seemed like it would be a defensive train wreck, but not only were they dominant in the offensive end, they handled their own zone well. It might be because of the larger surface, but especially Fowler was more relaxed and using his shot more, but they both seemed to play really well together, which was surprising.

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05-19-2012, 06:49 PM
  #972
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Puck possession was 54-46 for Finland. Also, US had to start their attack from their own zone more often than Finland, though the difference was small, which means that overall Finland had a better forecheck. I agree that Jalonen outcoached his US colleague, he completely read the aggressive forecheck of the US forwards and adjusted the team. The game was completely different from the 5-0 game.
I'm not sure where you got that bolded stat from. I can't find it at IIHF.com. Maybe it's there, but I couldn't locate any such puck possession statistic.

However, I spoke to five other journalists today who, like me, saw the game live.

Three seemed to see it like Reimi29 describes it. Two saw it like I saw it. Only two of these journalist were Fins, one was American.

What we all agreed on is that Jalonen started with a sit-back tactic and then adjusted in the latter course of the game. We agreed that he outcoached Gordon. We agree that the US did not shoot enough and did not bring enough pucks and traffic to the slot.

We agreed that one way or the other, Finland was the better team in the last 8 minutes of the game, when they ultimately decided it for themselves.

Those who felt Finland were the better team thought so because
A) The Finns showed the better tactical changes in the game
B) Were readier to just shoot and not wait for the optimal opportunity
C) Because the US just didn't show the hunger to score that they had shown in the previous games.

Where we disagreed most was
A) Which team was better along the boards
B) Which team did a better job in the transition game
C) Which team was more productive with the puck when that team had it

I thought it was clear that for the first 50 minutes, 'Team USA' was the unequivocal answer to all three of these issues. Guess it depends on how you want to define 'better' in this case. Several of the jounalists felt it was Finland, but admitted that's because they went into the game thinking Finland would get killed again by the USA, so that maybe this 'stigma' influenced their impression of the situation.

Regardless, Team USA is back in the States. Finland is playing tomorrow for bronze.

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05-20-2012, 05:44 AM
  #973
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I'm not sure where you got that bolded stat from. I can't find it at IIHF.com. Maybe it's there, but I couldn't locate any such puck possession statistic.
It was on a Finnish tv program that analyzed teh game.

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