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Is Leino gone?

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Old
05-18-2012, 03:45 AM
  #1
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Is Leino gone?

So I guess with the new CBA there will be a clause where you can remove one player from the team and cap but still have to pay him and it will not count against the cap(Proposed and I do not know the details)


I am curious, I am sure 4 out of 5 fans would get rid of Leino and it looks like this will be in the new CBA. Does Darcy have the guts to admit he was wrong? Will he give him another season? I think he gives Leino another season, what do you think?

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05-18-2012, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
So I guess with the new CBA there will be a clause where you can remove one player from the team and cap but still have to pay him and it will not count against the cap(Proposed and I do not know the details)


I am curious, I am sure 4 out of 5 fans would get rid of Leino and it looks like this will be in the new CBA. Does Darcy have the guts to admit he was wrong? Will he give him another season? I think he gives Leino another season, what do you think?
The amnesty clause in the new CBA is all rumor and hearsay at this point. Nothing is confirmed because the new CBA isn't in effect.

If there is in fact such a clause, it rises a nice question. My initial reaction is to say yes, but when you really analyze Darcy's work over the course of his tenure, I'm not sure he'd own up to a mistake of that magnitude (and I'm a Leino fan).

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05-18-2012, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
The amnesty clause in the new CBA is all rumor and hearsay at this point. Nothing is confirmed because the new CBA isn't in effect.

If there is in fact such a clause, it rises a nice question. My initial reaction is to say yes, but when you really analyze Darcy's work over the course of his tenure, I'm not sure he'd own up to a mistake of that magnitude (and I'm a Leino fan).
It is not a rumor at all. In fact it has been talked about and GMs have proposed it to the league. As I wrote in my first email. Proposed not rumor.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...t-labor-agreem

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05-18-2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
The amnesty clause in the new CBA is all rumor and hearsay at this point. Nothing is confirmed because the new CBA isn't in effect.

If there is in fact such a clause, it rises a nice question. My initial reaction is to say yes, but when you really analyze Darcy's work over the course of his tenure, I'm not sure he'd own up to a mistake of that magnitude (and I'm a Leino fan).
It's really not much of a GM decision when it gets to this point. It's up to the owner if they want to throw away 20+ million. I would suggest trading him instead, or at least exhausting that possibility.

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05-18-2012, 09:27 AM
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I'd imagine they would give him at least one more year to see if he can return to the form he showed in Philly. So, in short, even assuming an amnesty clause makes its way into the CBA, I don't think they'd use it on Leino before this season.

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05-18-2012, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
It is not a rumor at all. In fact it has been talked about and GMs have proposed it to the league. As I wrote in my first email. Proposed not rumor.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...t-labor-agreem
What I meant is that nothing is official.

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05-18-2012, 09:55 AM
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Amnesty clause is the worst idea ever...

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05-18-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Amnesty clause is the worst idea ever...
Worst idea ever for hockey??? I'd go with bowed nets...

Re: Amnesty clause - I'm not in favor of it, as it likely drives up the cost of tickets, albeit small, so it's inflation at a faster rate than would exist without it, with no increase in the quality of the product (on average, league-wide). If one-time, it's more tolerable the longer the life of the CBA. However, I can't see the NHL doing a 10-year CBA like the NBA did. Certainly not without a TV deal.

If it's a one-time shot, as proposed, I can definitely see where certain GMs would push for it as a way to overcome mistakes of predecessors.

However, as a selling point, I suggest better names than "amnesty clause":

1. NHLTARP
2. PierreGauthierLovesScottGomez clause
3. WhatWereWangandSnowSmoking? clause
4. AlexeiYashinCommemorative clause

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05-18-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Worst idea ever for hockey??? I'd go with bowed nets...

Re: Amnesty clause - I'm not in favor of it, as it likely drives up the cost of tickets, albeit small, so it's inflation at a faster rate than would exist without it, with no increase in the quality of the product (on average, league-wide). If one-time, it's more tolerable the longer the life of the CBA. However, I can't see the NHL doing a 10-year CBA like the NBA did. Certainly not without a TV deal.

If it's a one-time shot, as proposed, I can definitely see where certain GMs would push for it as a way to overcome mistakes of predecessors.

However, as a selling point, I suggest better names than "amnesty clause":

1. NHLTARP
2. PierreGauthierLovesScottGomez clause
3. WhatWereWangandSnowSmoking? clause
4. AlexeiYashinCommemorative clause
5. The Redden Rider.

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05-18-2012, 01:03 PM
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05-18-2012, 01:47 PM
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05-18-2012, 02:14 PM
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05-18-2012, 02:29 PM
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05-18-2012, 02:30 PM
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I think people are giving up on Leino too early.

Is he overpaid? Certainly (although the market was higher last offseason than we would have liked).

Is he a bad player? No.

Yes he is not living up to expectations, but he could very well be a 40-50 point player next season, which is pretty much what is expect of him.

Plus there's a thread about the Sabres being a place UFAs will want to go to. I guarantee signing someone to a 6 year deal then buying them out after 1 will not help.

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05-18-2012, 02:38 PM
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Some of these are gold.

But I think we wait at least a year to use it on Leino, if at all.

Just seems like it lowers the amount of hockey acumen needed to succeed as a GM.

The Glen Sather Stipulation

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05-18-2012, 02:47 PM
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05-18-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
So I guess with the new CBA there will be a clause where you can remove one player from the team and cap but still have to pay him and it will not count against the cap(Proposed and I do not know the details)


I am curious, I am sure 4 out of 5 fans would get rid of Leino and it looks like this will be in the new CBA. Does Darcy have the guts to admit he was wrong? Will he give him another season? I think he gives Leino another season, what do you think?
If Leino was on my team I'd give him 1 more year to sort things out.
As per CBA, it would be nice if they would revise it to ...
Each team gets to give 1 player the option of renegotiating his contract or getting sent to the minors and get fullpay. Said player must play for farm system until contract is concluded, or payment of contract becomes null and void.
Most NHL's players love the game, and skillset involved.
eg. Leino at $2.75-3 Cap hit is not so bad. Phaneuf at 4.75, Gomez at 1-1.25 same thing.

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05-18-2012, 03:17 PM
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05-18-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by questhockey View Post
If Leino was on my team I'd give him 1 more year to sort things out.
As per CBA, it would be nice if they would revise it to ...
Each team gets to give 1 player the option of renegotiating his contract or getting sent to the minors and get fullpay. Said player must play for farm system until contract is concluded, or payment of contract becomes null and void.
Most NHL's players love the game, and skillset involved.
eg. Leino at $2.75-3 Cap hit is not so bad. Phaneuf at 4.75, Gomez at 1-1.25 same thing.
The idea of being able to restructure deals would be great, works well in the nfl. The big problem, though:

Teams could frontload contracts, then, once the frontloaded money is paid, restructure with another frontloaded contract. Keeps the cap low, but player still gets paid. For example

Year 1: 10 million
Year 2: 10 million
Years 3-10: 1 million
That's 28 million over 10 years, cap hit of 2.8 million.

Then, after 2 years, restructured deal:
1st year of new deal: 10 million

etc, etc etc....

Player gets 10 mil every year, team only has caphit of 2.8.

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05-18-2012, 03:23 PM
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Instead of a potential "bad contract" escape clause in the new CBA, what should really be changed is the fact that all NHL players have guaranteed contracts. If the NHL were like the NFL, these guys would still have to perform and justify their roster spot in order to get paid. I think a lot of NHL fans are still under the foggy belief that NHL players are the toughest and most committed athletes in pro sports. While there may be some truth to that, it doesn't mean that guaranteed contracts don't bring out the laziness in many.

Get rid of them, make players earn their roster spot every season, the quality of the regular season will go up, GMs and fans will get rewarded for the talent they acquire, and the potential for cap ruining anchor contracts for lazy players will decrease quite a bit.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/cba...contracts.html

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05-18-2012, 03:30 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Instead of a potential "bad contract" escape clause in the new CBA, what should really be changed is the fact that all NHL players have guaranteed contracts. If the NHL were like the NFL, these guys would still have to perform and justify their roster spot in order to get paid. I think a lot of NHL fans are still under the foggy belief that NHL players are the toughest and most committed athletes in pro sports. While there may be some truth to that, it doesn't mean that guaranteed contracts don't bring out the laziness in many.

Get rid of them, make players earn their roster spot every season, the quality of the regular season will go up, GMs and fans will get rewarded for the talent they acquire, and the potential for cap ruining anchor contracts for lazy players will decrease quite a bit.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/cba...contracts.html
Are you alright with several holdouts each September then?

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05-18-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Husko View Post
The idea of being able to restructure deals would be great, works well in the nfl. The big problem, though:

Teams could frontload contracts, then, once the frontloaded money is paid, restructure with another frontloaded contract. Keeps the cap low, but player still gets paid. For example

Year 1: 10 million
Year 2: 10 million
Years 3-10: 1 million
That's 28 million over 10 years, cap hit of 2.8 million.

Then, after 2 years, restructured deal:
1st year of new deal: 10 million

etc, etc etc....

Player gets 10 mil every year, team only has caphit of 2.8.
You can't drop the salary that much in one year, but at any rate the cap hit formula could be adjusted--similar to how the buyout caphit formula works. Basically, you'd be "buying out" the cap hit for the rest of the contract and replacing it with a new one--so the true cap hit would be the sum of the "buy-out" cap hit and the new contract.

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05-18-2012, 03:45 PM
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Give him another year. If you only have one bullet, it better be used correctly.

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05-18-2012, 04:11 PM
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I'm ok with the amnesty because while it does allow bigger market teams/spenders (including Buffalo now) a chance to cut ties with any mistakes that budgeted teams may have been less likely to make, it eventually corrects the market on players for inflation. If you're overpaid the amnesty clause will make sure that you can be correctly valued.

Anyways, who on earth would be rather use the amnesty on if it's not Leino? Ehrhoff has been very good, Vanek only has two years left on his contract, Pominville isn't going anywhere, and Miller is much more likely to be traded then anything else. We don't have any real troubling contracts other than Leino's.

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05-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #25
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Give him another year. If you only have one bullet, it better be used correctly.
If it's like the previous amnesty it won't be available in another year. It was use it before the start of the season or lose it.

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