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Leafs retool

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Old
05-18-2012, 08:21 AM
  #51
Marco Esquandolas
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Well it didn't take long for this thread for fans of other teams to come in and make offers to devolve into a bunch of Leafs fans arguing about Gardiner is and posting their NHL 12 off-season plans.

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Old
05-18-2012, 08:43 AM
  #52
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Schultz hasnt played a game in the NHL. Comparing how they played previously doesnt really have bearing now. Gardiner led rookie dmen in pts this past season by a huge margin.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
I did not know that, I didn't want to move the kid before now he's damn near untouchable

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05-18-2012, 08:50 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Ok great you've said your piece.

I've watched him all season and he is a very special player. Carlyle said so, Wilson said so, analysts all said so and compares him to Niedermeyer and Coffey. He's a special player. It's scary to think that Gardiner only got his confidence offensively at the all star break and after that he produced at a 45 point pace.
if he truly gains confidence he will be something special.
...google his end to end goal from last night's Marlies game; true, AHL, but, man did he make the whole team look bad.

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Old
05-18-2012, 09:47 AM
  #54
Badger Mayhew
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
if you need that many pieces it's not really a re-toll is it?

if gardiner, lupul, kessel and so on are untouchables, the leafs do not have the pieces to get those you mentioned above ^.

sit tight, draft right is my suggestion.
Gardiner and Lupul are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Reason why we'd (ideally) be getting most of these pieces this offseason is because Burke will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs next season. Therefore, he'll likely try to make some big moves. That's why I'd be willing to accept say...a solid goalie in his mid-late 30s. It wouldn't be a long-term solution to our #1 goalie problem, but it'd be better than 3.00 GAA Reimer.

Our long-term future is why I'd prefer to keep our picks, although it does depend on the offer.

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05-18-2012, 09:51 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Gardiner and Lupul are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Reason why we'd (ideally) be getting most of these pieces this offseason is because Burke will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs next season. Therefore, he'll likely try to make some big moves. That's why I'd be willing to accept say...a solid goalie in his mid-late 30s. It wouldn't be a long-term solution to our #1 goalie problem, but it'd be better than 3.00 GAA Reimer.

Our long-term future is why I'd prefer to keep our picks, although it does depend on the offer.
So lets see if i have this, you want to sell a possible 10+ years of Gardiner for a couple of years of a mid to late 30's goaltender?? That doesn't seem like good asset management.

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05-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #56
Badger Mayhew
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
So lets see if i have this, you want to sell a possible 10+ years of Gardiner for a couple of years of a mid to late 30's goaltender?? That doesn't seem like good asset management.
Gardiner for an aging goaltender? No.

Gardiner+ for Staal (23 years old) with the guarantee that he resigns here? Absolutely.

Again, depends on the offer.

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05-18-2012, 09:57 AM
  #57
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Ryane Clowe? Douglas Murray? Antti Niemi? I wouldn't mind trading away those players.

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:13 AM
  #58
Badger Mayhew
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Originally Posted by Vertzedyek View Post
Ryane Clowe? Douglas Murray? Antti Niemi? I wouldn't mind trading away those players.
Don't know much about Murray, but I'd definitely be interested in seeing offers for the other two.

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05-18-2012, 10:21 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Gardiner and Lupul are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Reason why we'd (ideally) be getting most of these pieces this offseason is because Burke will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs next season. Therefore, he'll likely try to make some big moves. That's why I'd be willing to accept say...a solid goalie in his mid-late 30s. It wouldn't be a long-term solution to our #1 goalie problem, but it'd be better than 3.00 GAA Reimer.
Our long-term future is why I'd prefer to keep our picks, although it does depend on the offer.
Maybe i can't read....but....

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:23 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
J Schultz > Gardiner (according to the coach of both)
J Schultz was said to go 5-10th in this draft...ergo...
One has played in the NHL and had great success establishing himself as the best rookie D, the other has not. NCAA accomplishments /= NHL success.

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:34 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
J Schultz > Gardiner (according to the coach of both)
J Schultz was said to go 5-10th in this draft...ergo...
Gardiner was included in the trade that sent Beauchemin to Anaheim becasue of that assessment, now the Ducks have egg on their faces.

Gardiner was deemed to have good skating ability but there were question marks around his hockey IQ and play with the puck.

Anyone who watched him play with the Leafs last season should know those concerns are completely erased with unexpected generous portions of talent.

Again, Schultz hasn't played a game in the NHL, Gardiner had a remarkable rookie season and is tearing it up in the AHL playoffs.

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:34 AM
  #62
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OK, let's get bold.

Let me preface this by saying I DO NOT want to part with the #5, but....

1) TO COL: Liles/Blacker/2nd
OR
Liles/Lupul
OR
#5 oveall straight up

TO TOR:Stastny

Why?: The Avs could use some points from the D, especially on PP, and a Liles' return gives them that long-term at a decent price. Hate the idea of parting with Blacker or Lupul, but Liles alone does not get Stastny. You probably still have to sweeten the pot.

Stastny, at just 26, gives us a legitimate #1 centre and allows for the C drafted (assuming the #5 isn't gone) to develop. He only has one more year left on his deal, so he would have to be signed to an extension.

If above does not work, kick the tires on Getzlaf and if he is available, go hard after him:

TO ANA:Joffrey Lupul/5th overall

TO TOR:Getzlaf

WHY: OK, I know I am about to get flamed by my fellow Leaf fans, but you have to give up something to get something back, right? If Selaane retires, the Ducks need a top six forward. They get that in Lupul, and a high pick for the future. Welcome back, Lupul.

Is it an overpayment? I'm not so sure. Lupul excelled last year, but no one saw that coming. I think you trade him now when his value is high and you can get a stud C in Getzlaf. This deal would obviously hinge on Getzlaf signing an extension. Getzlaf and Kessel (and maybe even Lupul) together? Yes, please.


Goaltending:
A) See if we can acquire Luongo for a decent prospect, a possible cap dump and a second. Don't want to turn this into a Canuck thread saying it isn't enough, but if we can get him at a decent price, he is the best available. If not, Plan B.


B) Attempt to sign Vokoun, if he plans on staying in NA, as a stopgap for a couple of years.

C)Failing that, go after Berner or Harding and platoon him with Reimer or Scrivens and hope for the best. Not an ideal scenario, but one that won't see us part with more than we want.


Last edited by Holy Mackinaw: 05-18-2012 at 10:43 AM.
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Old
05-18-2012, 10:40 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
OK, let's get bold.

Let me preface this by saying I DO NOT want to part with the #5, but....

1) TO COL: Liles/Blacker/2nd
OR
Liles/Lupul
OR
#5 oveall straight up

TO TOR:Stastny

Why?: The Avs could use some points from the D, especially on PP, and a Liles' return gives them that long-term at a decent price. Hate the idea of parting with Blacker or Lupul, but Liles alone does not get Stastny. You probably still have to sweeten the pot.

Stastny, at just 26, gives us a legitimate #1 centre and allows for the C drafted (assuming the #5 isn't gone) to develop. He only has one more year left on his deal, so he would have to be signed to an extension.

If above does not work, kick the tires on Getzlaf and if he is available, go hard after him:

TO ANA:Joffrey Lupul/5th overall

TO TOR:Getzlaf

WHY: OK, I know I am about to get flamed by my fellow Leaf fans, but you have to give up something to get something back, right? If Selaane retires, the Ducks need a top six forward. They get that in Lupul, and a high pick for the future. Welcome back, Lupul.

Is it an overpayment? I'm not so sure. Lupul excelled last year, but no one saw that coming. I think you trade him now when his value is high and you can get a stud C in Getzlaf. This deal would obviously hinge on Getzlaf signing an extension. Getzlaf and Kessel (and maybe even Lupul) togetgher? Yes, please.


Goaltending:
A) See if we can acquire Luongo for a decent prospect, a possible cap dump and a second. Don't want to turn this into a Canuck thread saying it isn't enough, but if we can get him at a decent price, he is the best available. If not, Plan B.


B) Attempt to sign Vokoun, if he plans on staying in NA, as a stopgap for a couple of years.

C)Failing that, go after Berner or Harding and platoon him with Reimer or Scrivens and hope for the best. Not an ideal scenario, but one that won't see us part with more than we want.
We need a top line C so its not horrible. I was going to say Murray is not dumb enough to trade more assets back to Toronto to re-acquire Lupul, however I then realized he let Beauchemin walk and traded us gards and lupul to re-acquire him so i guess its not out of the question.

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05-18-2012, 10:46 AM
  #64
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Acquiring a number one center, a number one goalie and a power forward in the top 6 sounds like a heck of a lot more than a 'retool'. The Leafs will be fortunate if they are able to snag one of those. A lot of teams want those assets and anyone who has one is not likely to be interested in selling it except at a pretty high price.

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05-18-2012, 10:48 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Acquiring a number one center, a number one goalie and a power forward in the top 6 sounds like a heck of a lot more than a 'retool'. The Leafs will be fortunate if they are able to snag one of those. A lot of teams want those assets and anyone who has one is not likely to be interested in selling it except at a pretty high price.
If you read, it is two deals, different scenarios.

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05-18-2012, 10:54 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
If you read, it is two deals, different scenarios.
I did read the OP. It's three deals. Not realistic at all. Like I said, if you get one of those pieces it will have been a very successful offseason.

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05-18-2012, 10:59 AM
  #67
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I did read the OP. It's three deals. Not realistic at all. Like I said, if you get one of those pieces it will have been a very successful offseason.
My apologies. I thought you meant me proposal. My bad.

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05-18-2012, 11:02 AM
  #68
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I'll be the idiot who says this...

The Leafs don't need to retool and make a big splash, they just need some character role players and some vet leadership. That's really not that difficult to pick up if they have cap room.

Once they get that, then just rebuild the system to a more current explosive style (maybe a 2-3) and they are on their way. Does that mean they'll make the playoffs? Maybe - maybe not. But it let's them build their team and their prospects mixed with character guys who can fit in the locker room.

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05-18-2012, 11:03 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
My apologies. I thought you meant me proposal. My bad.
No worries. I thought your proposals did a pretty good job of looking after both teams' needs.

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Old
05-18-2012, 11:32 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
I'm asking fans of other teams to make proposals, not the other way around. Otherwise this will turn into another "LOL Leaf fans" topic, when all I want is to get a realistic feel for what could be accomplished this off season.
That has an unfortunate tendency to happen anyways thanks to the vocal minority around here. Still, I salute your determination; we need more Leafs fans willing to have good discussions about this stuff... and able to deal with the reputation they've been unfortunately saddled with as a result of the incessant crowing of the hopelessly insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Don't know much about Murray, but I'd definitely be interested in seeing offers for the other two.
Murray's a positional shutdown guy and really good at it. Not sure how the Leafs' defense is supposed to be structured, but he'd probably be a nice reliable depth add in case Schenn continues to have issues.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:07 PM
  #71
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Leafs probably won't have the cap space for both Martin and Michalek. If you take out Michalek or add in Komisarek from the Leafs end I think its fair value.
I'd take out Martin (who is trash) way before I take out Michalek who is actually one of the better PK defensmen out there.

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05-18-2012, 12:31 PM
  #72
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To CHI: Grabovski, 5th pick
To TOR: Sharp

Why Chicago does this: They downgrade their top six by replacing Sharp with Grabovski, but they get that elusive 2nd line center that will provide greater balance to the top six (Toews, Grabovski down the middle.. Kane and Hossa at RW, Left Wing remains open for Stalberg likely at one spot and hopefully Saad or a Free Agent). The number 5 pick will give Chicago a great prospect here.

Why Toronto does this: Sharp is a significant upgrade over Grabovski. Sharp's top four seasons have all shattered Grabovski's career high. This gives them a second elusive sniper to go along with Kessel that can play on the 2nd line and the point on the powerplay. With a contract that's the same length and only 0.4 greater in cap hit. Toronto immediately gets better. The 5th pick is the valuable asset that makes it worth Chicago's consideration to do this.

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05-18-2012, 12:37 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
To CHI: Grabovski, 5th pick
To TOR: Sharp

Why Chicago does this: They downgrade their top six by replacing Sharp with Grabovski, but they get that elusive 2nd line center that will provide greater balance to the top six (Toews, Grabovski down the middle.. Kane and Hossa at RW, Left Wing remains open for Stalberg likely at one spot and hopefully Saad or a Free Agent). The number 5 pick will give Chicago a great prospect here.

Why Toronto does this: Sharp is a significant upgrade over Grabovski. Sharp's top four seasons have all shattered Grabovski's career high. This gives them a second elusive sniper to go along with Kessel that can play on the 2nd line and the point on the powerplay. With a contract that's the same length and only 0.4 greater in cap hit. Toronto immediately gets better. The 5th pick is the valuable asset that makes it worth Chicago's consideration to do this.
Leafs pass without much thought.

Grabo for Sharp has the makings of a good deal, but, for the the Leafs to consider moving the 5th, offer up Towes. ...No, didnt think so.

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05-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #74
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Leafs pass without much thought.

Grabo for Sharp has the makings of a good deal, but, for the the Leafs to consider moving the 5th, offer up Towes. ...No, didnt think so.
ridiculous overpayment

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Old
05-18-2012, 02:10 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
1) TO COL: Liles/Blacker/2nd
OR
Liles/Lupul
OR
#5 oveall straight up

TO TOR:Stastny
The Avs have no incentives to do any of those trades.

We traded Liles, he won't be coming back. Which isn't to say Avs fans don't wish him well. We have no need for Blacker or another 2nd rounder. We possibly have 2 this year already and we have 4 d prospects better than Blacker.

We don't want to buy high on Lupul.

We're past the early portions of our rebuild, a #5 overall doesn't help us as much as Stastny does.

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