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Derek Roy-5 reasons to keep him

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Old
05-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #26
Sabresfansince1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
I know you're tongue in cheek, but I'd throw in sweetner with Roy to get Kesler...

If Derek loves the night life in BUF, he'll go ape in VAN.
FWIW, Kesler is quite openly said to be an ego problem and a real jack arse to deal with...even to the point that trading him was speculated about last month. I still doubt that he gets moved at all, and I too would trade Roy+ for him, but it's just a fine example of a good player with questions about injury and/or attitude that is still an obvious talent that shouldn't be traded away for scraps.

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05-18-2012, 11:50 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
FWIW, Kesler is quite openly said to be an ego problem and a real jack arse to deal with...even to the point that trading him was speculated about last month. I still doubt that he gets moved at all, and I too would trade Roy+ for him, but it's just a fine example of a good player with questions about injury and/or attitude that is still an obvious talent that shouldn't be traded away for scraps.
I just don't see why they would trade Hodgson if they planned on trading Kesler later on as well. He's still only 28 the shoulder surgery won't de-rail his career, i think his value his still extremely high.

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05-18-2012, 11:51 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Given his shoulder surgery, Kesler isn't getting moved this off season because teams won't give up a ton to get him right now.
I disagree, healthy shoulder or not teams would line up for Kesler is he were made available.

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05-18-2012, 11:53 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
FWIW, Kesler is quite openly said to be an ego problem and a real jack arse to deal with...even to the point that trading him was speculated about last month. I still doubt that he gets moved at all, and I too would trade Roy+ for him, but it's just a fine example of a good player with questions about injury and/or attitude that is still an obvious talent that shouldn't be traded away for scraps.
Yeah, I know. One might be inclined to draw more than a couple parallels between the two. Kesler, a year younger than Roy, better career production but helped by the Swedish Twin effect in VanCan, etc. He's our expansion sister's pariah in the same way Derek is. But his contract is also good. So if I'm Darcy, I'd roll the dice on a Roy+ for Kesler trade if one was available, and especially if I can't Jedi-mind-trick-fleece someone for a clear top-tier 1C (which personally, I don't think will be available).

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05-18-2012, 12:02 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
I agree. The main reason I would even think of keeping him would be to see how he plays during a contract year. If he does amazing and puts up huge numbers we should sell him at peak value at the trade deadline. But then again if he is doing that well, we would most likely be in the playoff picture and not be in a position to trade him. So its tough either way.
I don't agree. If Roy does good. Then they will not trade him. Then we will get knocked out of the playoffs because Derek Roy does not show up in the playoffs. They need to package him and do what ever it takes to get a #1 center so we can roll>

#1 ???
#2 Hodgson
#3 Ennis

I like our wingers. I like our 2nd and 3rd line centers. We need a #1 center. That is the only thing on my wish list. Oh, and to get rid of Derek Roy.

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05-18-2012, 01:07 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
I disagree, healthy shoulder or not teams would line up for Kesler is he were made available.
Given the current outlook that he'll miss the start of the season and the track record of most players having off years coming off that surgery, and Kesler's off year last year, I wouldn't pay a premium for him.

The idea of Ryan Kesler is a lot better than the reality of Ryan Kesler today.

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05-19-2012, 03:34 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I'll be pleasantly surprised if Roy is moved. I don't think Darcy will get offers that are close enough to how highly he's going to value Derek. That and I think (well, I hope) that Darcy will need to see where his top 2 replacement center is going to come from, and I'm not so sure he's available myself.
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
The only reason to keep Roy would be if Darcy fails to add a center of similar capabilities this offseason.

I fully expect Darcy to land a new center, so there's no reason for Roy.
My gut feeling is that, despite his preference to get maximum return in any trade, Regier will feel that it would be far worse to hold onto him because:

1) the Ruff-Roy relationship is too strained to risk dissension or chemistry issues spilling over to the locker room next season - especially with so many of the team's other core players being fellow alumni of Rochester; and

2) Roy's pending UFA status next summer will make his trade value during the season even less than it is now since any interested teams would think they could just sign him next summer, rather than give up an asset for him - and if Roy underachieves again next season, the Sabres will once again be forced to let a free agent walk without getting anything of value back.

For those two reasons, I can see Regier looking for the best offer he can get this summer - before training camp begins - and accepting it, just to get something back for Roy and eliminate the likely distractions that the Roy-Ruff relationship and trade rumors will fuel.

I also got the sense from his interviews after the season that Regier, while clearly wanting to get another center, isn't that scared with a duo of Ennis-Hodgson in the mix.

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05-19-2012, 03:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by AlexanderMogilny89 View Post
I don't agree. If Roy does good. Then they will not trade him. Then we will get knocked out of the playoffs because Derek Roy does not show up in the playoffs. They need to package him and do what ever it takes to get a #1 center so we can roll>

#1 ???
#2 Hodgson
#3 Ennis

I like our wingers. I like our 2nd and 3rd line centers. We need a #1 center. That is the only thing on my wish list. Oh, and to get rid of Derek Roy.
IMO Hodgson and Ennis go into next year as your 1-2 C

Theyll likely look for a better 2 way 3rd line C and hope the kids grow (ie Stoll)

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05-20-2012, 08:47 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
My gut feeling is that, despite his preference to get maximum return in any trade, Regier will feel that it would be far worse to hold onto him because:

1) the Ruff-Roy relationship is too strained to risk dissension or chemistry issues spilling over to the locker room next season - especially with so many of the team's other core players being fellow alumni of Rochester; and

2) Roy's pending UFA status next summer will make his trade value during the season even less than it is now since any interested teams would think they could just sign him next summer, rather than give up an asset for him - and if Roy underachieves again next season, the Sabres will once again be forced to let a free agent walk without getting anything of value back.

For those two reasons, I can see Regier looking for the best offer he can get this summer - before training camp begins - and accepting it, just to get something back for Roy and eliminate the likely distractions that the Roy-Ruff relationship and trade rumors will fuel.

I also got the sense from his interviews after the season that Regier, while clearly wanting to get another center, isn't that scared with a duo of Ennis-Hodgson in the mix.
The "Ruff-Roy" stuff is overblown. Roy didn't say anything that wasn't in the minds of other players, and he didn't make any dramatic stand about what he said, AND Ruff even apologized for calling out the team the way he did. Nothing to see here folks...nothing to see here.

This past trade deadline Roy was hard to move BECAUSE he still had another year left on his contract. Teams making a trade to bolster a playoff push prefer a pending UFA, not the other way around. They don't want to get hampered by additional years of committment to a player, they just want him for a playoff run. That's why Roy will have a better market later in the season, not this summer.

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05-20-2012, 12:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
The "Ruff-Roy" stuff is overblown. Roy didn't say anything that wasn't in the minds of other players, and he didn't make any dramatic stand about what he said, AND Ruff even apologized for calling out the team the way he did. Nothing to see here folks...nothing to see here.

This past trade deadline Roy was hard to move BECAUSE he still had another year left on his contract. Teams making a trade to bolster a playoff push prefer a pending UFA, not the other way around. They don't want to get hampered by additional years of committment to a player, they just want him for a playoff run. That's why Roy will have a better market later in the season, not this summer.
dustin penner says hi... and brad boyes

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05-20-2012, 01:08 PM
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dustin penner says hi... and brad boyes
Mike Fisher. Jeff Carter (OK so that one is a bit extreme, but still). Antoine Vermette. Chris Kelly.

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05-20-2012, 01:12 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Mike Fisher. Jeff Carter (OK so that one is a bit extreme, but still). Antoine Vermette. Chris Kelly.
exactly, the idea that Roy will have greater trade value at this coming season's deadline verse last year's... is preposterous

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05-20-2012, 01:18 PM
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exactly, the idea that Roy will have greater trade value at this coming season's deadline verse last year's... is preposterous
The one thing I will say is being a rental might change the teams that are interested. A team that has a bunch of your RFAs looking for a raise may have been less likely to take on Derek Roy when he had a year left and more likely now--although given Roy's contract, that also seems a little farfetched as his contract is not by any means anything close to an albatross.

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Old
05-21-2012, 08:59 AM
  #39
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Jame and Swords, sorry but I'm not sure I follow. Are you naming players that were traded at the deadline with multiple years under contract, or naming pending UFAs that were not traded? Either way it depends on the situation and each teams' needs. Sometimes players have been traded for because a team wants them for a long time, because that player fits in long-term. It doesn't happen often at the deadline but it has happened. But what usually happens at the deadline, for playoff bound teams anyway, is a team trading for a player they need for a short time that fills a hole in their line-up. Pending UFAs are preferred in that scenario. Besides, we're talking about Roy and Buffalo, and as that specific situation, Regier or maybe it was Ted Black, said Roy was difficult to move last deadline because he still had one year under contract. You know, I guess I assume you guys paid attention to these details but maybe you didn't. What I'm saying came straight from the organization.

I've said it before - I'm fine with trading Roy asap as long as another competant scoring center is acquired before the season. But his value will be higher later for a few reasons I've already discussed in other threads, including the fact that his value can't be any lower right now coming off the season he and the team had.

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05-21-2012, 11:17 AM
  #40
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Roy won't be traded if he's kept.

He'll either tank the season and murk his trade value, or everything will go back to normal and he'll be too important to Ruff to move, not to mention Regier's abhorrence of trading productive players filling positions of need.

The only way Roy is a deadline casualty involves another lost season.

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05-21-2012, 11:25 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Jame and Swords, sorry but I'm not sure I follow. Are you naming players that were traded at the deadline with multiple years under contract, or naming pending UFAs that were not traded? Either way it depends on the situation and each teams' needs. Sometimes players have been traded for because a team wants them for a long time, because that player fits in long-term. It doesn't happen often at the deadline but it has happened. But what usually happens at the deadline, for playoff bound teams anyway, is a team trading for a player they need for a short time that fills a hole in their line-up. Pending UFAs are preferred in that scenario. Besides, we're talking about Roy and Buffalo, and as that specific situation, Regier or maybe it was Ted Black, said Roy was difficult to move last deadline because he still had one year under contract. You know, I guess I assume you guys paid attention to these details but maybe you didn't. What I'm saying came straight from the organization.

I've said it before - I'm fine with trading Roy asap as long as another competant scoring center is acquired before the season. But his value will be higher later for a few reasons I've already discussed in other threads, including the fact that his value can't be any lower right now coming off the season he and the team had.
I think you are wrong... about everything in this post.

Roy has more value in the offseason where there is a complete lack of quality centers hitting free agency.

Roy adds very little to a team that is a contender at the deadline. He doesn't bring the skill set teams look to add for the long grind of the Stanley Cup Playoffs... and if a team isn't a strong contender, then they aren't or shouldn't be parting with 1st round picks and high end prospects for a rental.

What kind of contender has a need for a Derek Roy?

Your assessment of the trade deadline is far to general and misses the point of what teams are trying to do at that time of year

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05-21-2012, 03:58 PM
  #42
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Roy will be back next season

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05-21-2012, 04:17 PM
  #43
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Roy will be back next season
Is Phoenix coming to Buffalo next year?

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05-21-2012, 04:29 PM
  #44
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John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl
Sabres GM Darcy Regier on Derek Roy: "We expect him back at this point, and we expect him to have a good season at this point."

The fact that Regier said "at this point" twice is telling.

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05-21-2012, 04:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl
Sabres GM Darcy Regier on Derek Roy: "We expect him back at this point, and we expect him to have a good season at this point."

The fact that Regier said "at this point" twice is telling.
That does seem odd.

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05-21-2012, 09:00 PM
  #46
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i understand the "at this point" term regier talks about in the sulzer-presser as follows:

if there is a deal that brings that top tier player or top 3 draftpick to buffalo requires derek roy to be involved, regier is willing to trade him.

but he will not trade him for anything of low value, like a 2nd round pick or mid-prospect.

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05-21-2012, 09:17 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by koarl View Post
i understand the "at this point" term regier talks about in the sulzer-presser as follows:

if there is a deal that brings that top tier player or top 3 draftpick to buffalo requires derek roy to be involved, regier is willing to trade him.

but he will not trade him for anything of low value, like a 2nd round pick or mid-prospect.
Well, in the presser he also mentioned the fact that trade talk doesn't actually start until the playoffs are over and the discussions start to become serious just before the draft. So, "at this point", nobody is really being discussed in a trade, and that includes Roy.

Obviously, that's subject to change.

If they do trade him then, I agree with your assessment. There's high risk/high reward for letting him play out the final year of his contract. But I'm sure that if the deal is right, Darcy Regier would prefer to trade him well before camp. That way he can pursue UFA's if need be.

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05-21-2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl
Sabres GM Darcy Regier on Derek Roy: "We expect him back at this point, and we expect him to have a good season at this point."

The fact that Regier said "at this point" twice is telling.
Let us not forget what Regier said about Tim Kennedy two days before getting rid of him.

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05-22-2012, 09:40 AM
  #49
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I think you are wrong... about everything in this post.

Roy has more value in the offseason where there is a complete lack of quality centers hitting free agency.

Roy adds very little to a team that is a contender at the deadline. He doesn't bring the skill set teams look to add for the long grind of the Stanley Cup Playoffs... and if a team isn't a strong contender, then they aren't or shouldn't be parting with 1st round picks and high end prospects for a rental.

What kind of contender has a need for a Derek Roy?

Your assessment of the trade deadline is far to general and misses the point of what teams are trying to do at that time of year
If I'm so wrong about everything where is the avalanche of posters calling me out for it? Clearly your own bias against Roy is affecting your reasoning, as other posters have mentioned before...as if no playoff team would ever have a need for a 2nd line center, uh ok. My assesment of the trade deadline doesn't need to be specific. I'm not about to dissect the last 20 years of trades to prove what any experienced hockey fan knows - that buyers (generally) overpay at the deadline. Yet somehow, as bad as Roy is according to you and coming off a major injury, he's going to buck that trend. Sure, it's totally possible that Regier could trade Roy for fair value this summer, but it's more likely that Roy rebounds to some extent and has more value to a semi-desperate team in February. I'm done arguing the same thing over and over though, so I'll allow you another insulting post if it makes you feel better.

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05-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #50
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I think Regier will look to move him, but as for finding another quality center, idk. Maybe a guy like Jokinen for 1 year, or Stoll, other than that, the market seems bare. But trading Roy for an upgrade at center just seems unlikely. And really, I'd almost rather keep Roy for a year than sign a guy pike Jokinen. Although Stoll, I think I'd like that. Although his offensive ability seems to be diminishing, he's a guy that can spot in the top-6 but is a perfect 3C.

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