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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 13.0

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Old
05-18-2012, 04:11 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Different players, different knees, different recoveries. No one knee operation is the same and neither is the recovery. To make a blanket statement like that is irresponsible. Same thing was said about Markovs knee and now it's a huge debate as to whether he'll ever recover.
ACL surgeries in hockey are like Tommy John surgeries in baseball, I have yet to hear of a player NOT making it back. This is the era of arthroscopy not the days of Bobby Orr.

Markov's situation was a piss poor job handling by our medical staff, couldn't they figure out in May or June taht the swelling was due to loose particles instead of needing another "clean up" surgery in December?

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05-18-2012, 04:25 PM
  #977
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It's not just about the injury though. It's a complete year of lost development in one of the most important period as a hockey player. It's the inaccuracy of the information that we have on him coming into the draft. On top of that, there's the "knee" factor, and that makes Galchenyuk an extremely risky choice at 3rd overall.

There's been countless highly regarded 16 years old players out there who fell off the map on their draft year for whatever reason. Some of you just assume Galchenyuk is immune to that. I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not a "hater", just putting things into perspective.

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05-18-2012, 04:28 PM
  #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
ACL surgeries in hockey are like Tommy John surgeries in baseball, I have yet to hear of a player NOT making it back. This is the era of arthroscopy not the days of Bobby Orr.

Markov's situation was a piss poor job handling by our medical staff, couldn't they figure out in May or June taht the swelling was due to loose particles instead of needing another "clean up" surgery in December?
No, they couldn't. And it's not important in the big picture. That extra cleanup was part of a process that was extended about 3 months, from 9 months. (Just a quick counting) It's a 25% increase. Not a big deal medically.

However it was a big deal for the Habs season, right. I'm sure management wants Markov fully healthy, because he might play 7-8 more years after this. If it happens that he plays 5+ more years then that 3 months will be just a bad memory.

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05-18-2012, 04:35 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
It's not just about the injury though. It's a complete year of lost development in one of the most important period as a hockey player. It's the inaccuracy of the information that we have on him coming into the draft. On top of that, there's the "knee" factor, and that makes Galchenyuk an extremely risky choice at 3rd overall.

There's been countless highly regarded 16 years old players out there who fell off the map on their draft year for whatever reason. Some of you just assume Galchenyuk is immune to that. I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not a "hater", just putting things into perspective.
You're right. That being said, Galchenyuk's play in this year's playoffs should allay some of those fears. Although Sarnia's playoff run was brief, Galchenyuk was arguably their best player (even better than Yakupov) against Saginaw by most accounts.

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05-18-2012, 04:58 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
You're right. That being said, Galchenyuk's play in this year's playoffs should allay some of those fears. Although Sarnia's playoff run was brief, Galchenyuk was arguably their best player (even better than Yakupov) against Saginaw by most accounts.
What people need to think about is every athlete in a sport like hockey is one game away from being in Galchenyuk's place.(or Markov's)

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05-18-2012, 05:09 PM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
ACL surgeries in hockey are like Tommy John surgeries in baseball, I have yet to hear of a player NOT making it back. This is the era of arthroscopy not the days of Bobby Orr.

Markov's situation was a piss poor job handling by our medical staff, couldn't they figure out in May or June taht the swelling was due to loose particles instead of needing another "clean up" surgery in December?
Until he hurts it again or needs to have it scoped. If a crack NHL medical staff and one of the best surgeons in the world can mess up an operation, it's possible Galys can have issues too. It IS possible now or on the future.

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05-18-2012, 05:55 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Until he hurts it again or needs to have it scoped. If a crack NHL medical staff and one of the best surgeons in the world can mess up an operation, it's possible Galys can have issues too. It IS possible now or on the future.
It is comical watching you nitpick on Galchenyuk and then blindly defend Grigorenko.

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05-18-2012, 05:59 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
What people need to think about is every athlete in a sport like hockey is one game away from being in Galchenyuk's place.(or Markov's)
Exactly!

It is alot different than a lack of heart and courage, some people are born with that life long affliction.

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05-18-2012, 06:48 PM
  #984
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He said.

Bergevin has also been busy working with the scouting staff ahead of next month's draft in Pittsburgh, where the Canadiens hold the third overall pick.

He did not rule out trading up or down at the draft if it was advantageous to the club. And he did not dismiss the notion of picking a Russian player despite concerns they may opt to sign in the KHL.

The top-rated player for the draft is Russian Nail Yakupov, and Mikhail Grigorenko is also highly rated.

"If you limit yourself to non-Russians, you're not doing your job properly," he said.
---
from tsn.ca website.

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05-18-2012, 07:21 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Bergevin has also been busy working with the scouting staff ahead of next month's draft in Pittsburgh, where the Canadiens hold the third overall pick.

He did not rule out trading up or down at the draft if it was advantageous to the club. And he did not dismiss the notion of picking a Russian player despite concerns they may opt to sign in the KHL.

The top-rated player for the draft is Russian Nail Yakupov, and Mikhail Grigorenko is also highly rated.

"If you limit yourself to non-Russians, you're not doing your job properly," he said.
---
from tsn.ca website.
What was he going to say?

"We won't be picking Russians, they are lazy and might not come over"

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:33 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Until he hurts it again or needs to have it scoped. If a crack NHL medical staff and one of the best surgeons in the world can mess up an operation, it's possible Galys can have issues too. It IS possible now or on the future.
He was back playing and was skating like the wind 6 weeks ago. Plus, ever NHL team looking at him will run an MRI or will get a copy of one looked at by a doctor.

What "one of the best surgeons in the world" messed up an operation?

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:37 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
No, they couldn't. And it's not important in the big picture. That extra cleanup was part of a process that was extended about 3 months, from 9 months. (Just a quick counting) It's a 25% increase. Not a big deal medically.

However it was a big deal for the Habs season, right. I'm sure management wants Markov fully healthy, because he might play 7-8 more years after this. If it happens that he plays 5+ more years then that 3 months will be just a bad memory.
I have no problem with 3 more months, it's the fact taht they were asleep at the switch in May-August and never caught on until he showed up in late August and even then they didn't catch on and just prescribed rest. Had they done it in August he probably plays 55-60 games.

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:37 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
I'm wondering if anyone feels like humouring me through the following scenario I've been conjuring up:

I wonder what kind of premium there would be on trading down from #3 to the #6 range? I ask because I'm sort of seeing teams preferences as follows:

Oilers - Defenceman
Jackets - Forward
Habs - Forward
Islanders - Defenceman
Leafs - Forward
Ducks - Defenceman

One scenario I could see playing out is that the Oilers take Yakupov (even though they'd prefer a d-man) and then the Blue Jackets take the next best forward (probably one of Forsberg or Galchenyuk). That leaves us with the next pick with everyone's favourite d-man still on the board (be it Murray, Dumba, Reilly, whoever).

The Habs could realistically be considering a d-man right now (BPA), and the Ducks would see that if that happens, they're likely getting stuck with the 3rd d-man selected (because the Islanders will draft one as well). The Habs, meanwhile, figure the Isles are taking a d-man, know the Ducks would take one if they traded up to #3, and so the only forward likely to go between pick 3 and 5 is to the Leafs and #5.

It could very realistically go something like this:

Oilers - Yakupov
Jackets - Forsberg
Ducks - Murray / Dumba / Reilly / Trouba
Islanders - Murray / Dumba / Reilly / Trouba
Leafs - Grigorenko / Galchenyuk / Teravainen

And that would leave the Habs with 5 out of the following 7 players to choose from:

Murray
Dumba
Reilly
Trouba
Grigorenko
Galchenyuk
Teravainen

If you remove any two of those players, there is still a lot of talent there to choose from.

Thoughts?
I'm more of a philosopher than a scout, so I have to keep things abstract, but I think your scenario is possible if a guy like Rielly happens to be very high on Timmins' list. My sense, for whatever that is worth, is that Rielly is a guy who could be real high on Timmins' list.

Let's say for argument's sake that the list has Yakupov and Galchenyuk at 1 and 2, both are gone, and Rielly is at 3. The Kings were in love with Hickey, and just took him, as did Phoenix with Wheeler. That's one approach. But maybe, if presented an opportunity to slide down a few spots and pick up some other stuff for the trouble, the Habs would take a calculated risk that the intervening teams would have other players on their list.

And as a failsafe, as you point out, there are still going to be some decent prospects no matter how the top 5 or 6 ultimately shakes down.

Going into the draft, as an armchair GM, part of the fun is arguing about who the Habs should take at 3rd overall, but the other fun is trying to guess Timmins' list, which actually matters a lot more to the Habs. We've seen that it isn't always what the consensus from the published services say. He was beaming after the McDonagh selection because he had him somewhere around 6th or 7th overall. He had Ellis pretty high too, and even it was left to Gainey, according to internet legend, whether to take Staal or Price at 5th.

All of that to say -- I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs trade down at the draft.

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:40 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
It could very realistically go something like this:

Oilers - Yakupov
Jackets - Forsberg
Ducks - Murray / Dumba / Reilly / Trouba
Islanders - Murray / Dumba / Reilly / Trouba
Leafs - Grigorenko / Galchenyuk / Teravainen

And that would leave the Habs with 5 out of the following 7 players to choose from:

Murray
Dumba
Reilly
Trouba
Grigorenko
Galchenyuk
Teravainen

If you remove any two of those players, there is still a lot of talent there to choose from.

Thoughts?
At #4, the Isles will not pick the second best defenseman. If the Ducks take Murray, the Isles will go Forsberg, the Leafs Grigorenko. The Habs then get to pick one of Dumba, Rielly, Trouba, or Teravainen. Do you really want to make that tradeoff?

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Old
05-18-2012, 07:49 PM
  #990
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By Portzline from Columbus on Twitter, a REALLY legit source, Petr Straka is going back in the draft. Was not a fan of his to be drafted by us at his draft year but might be an interesting mid-draft pick this time around. Needless to say, he didn't have the greatest regular season....but really good playoffs to say the least. Will not be your most physical player though....and that's an understatement.

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05-18-2012, 07:59 PM
  #991
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The Bergevin quote about Russians in full:

http://www.radio-canada.ca/sports/ho...epechage.shtml

« Il y a de très bons Russes dans la ligue, les Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin, a rappelé Bergevin. Si tu exclus les Russes, tu ne fais pas ton travail comme il faut. Mais tu dois faire tes devoirs. Si tu les fais et que tu es à l'aise, tu dois y aller. »

In short: ''There are very good Russians in the league (names them). If you ignore Russians, you are not doing your job like you should be doing it. But you have to do your homework. If you do your homework and you are comfortable with the player, you gotta move ahead.''

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
And that would leave the Habs with 5 out of the following 7 players to choose from:

Murray
Dumba
Reilly
Trouba
Grigorenko
Galchenyuk
Teravainen

If you remove any two of those players, there is still a lot of talent there to choose from.

Thoughts?
Pretty sure it would be 4 of those 7 would be available, not 5.

3 of them would go 3rd, 4th and 5th.

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Old
05-18-2012, 08:00 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
By Portzline from Columbus on Twitter, a REALLY legit source, Petr Straka is going back in the draft. Was not a fan of his to be drafted by us at his draft year but might be an interesting mid-draft pick this time around. Needless to say, he didn't have the greatest regular season....but really good playoffs to say the least. Will not be your most physical player though....and that's an understatement.

I watched the whole series with Halifax. He played in the perimeter, cut across the slot at the top of the faceoff circles. I think he had one hit...and it was an accident

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05-18-2012, 08:10 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
I am following the habs on facebook and the only player they have talked about in the draft is Galchenyuk....
I see a Rielly profile (ranked 5th by Central scouting) from Tuesday. Galchenyuk (ranked 4th) was posted 22 hours ago. I would assume 3, 2 and 1 are next.

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05-18-2012, 08:21 PM
  #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
By Portzline from Columbus on Twitter, a REALLY legit source, Petr Straka is going back in the draft. Was not a fan of his to be drafted by us at his draft year but might be an interesting mid-draft pick this time around. Needless to say, he didn't have the greatest regular season....but really good playoffs to say the least. Will not be your most physical player though....and that's an understatement.
They also let their 4th rounder Archibald walk, pretty ugly compared to Ellias and Gallagher and potentially macMillan if he keeps developing.

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05-18-2012, 08:39 PM
  #995
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Which is more of a risk, Galchenyuks shoddy knee or Grigorenkos shoddy spine?

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05-18-2012, 09:19 PM
  #996
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Griffin Reinhart sure looked good tonight versus Shawinigan. He looked like a 19 year old defenseman....very imposing presence, played on both special teams units and scored a goal. He'll be a top 10 pick for sure.

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05-18-2012, 09:20 PM
  #997
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Which is more of a risk, Galchenyuks shoddy knee or Grigorenkos shoddy spine?
Malkin had the same operation and I don`t think too many fans would be pissed if we traded for him. The missed season is a bigger concern for me.

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05-18-2012, 09:22 PM
  #998
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Griffin Reinhart sure looked good tonight versus Shawinigan. He looked like a 19 year old defenseman....very imposing presence, played on both special teams units and scored a goal. He'll be a top 10 pick for sure.
That's what I've been saying. Kid is dynamite.

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05-18-2012, 09:32 PM
  #999
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That's what I've been saying. Kid is dynamite.
No. I'm Kid Dynamite.

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05-18-2012, 09:34 PM
  #1000
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Reinhart played a great game today. Looking like a Larry Robinson type, physical force, scored a sharp goal, good wheels. Looked like Seth Jones tonight. What I seen of the game. I was flipping between the Blue Jays game and Memorial Cup.

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