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Old
05-18-2012, 01:14 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by King Panther View Post
His contract will expire at the end of next year and with Quick being such a stud I think everyone sees the writing on the wall for him. He will walk away for free. So I dont think the price to get him will be that high. He is every bit the prospect that Markstrom has been for us and he has performed well in the NHL. Ive said it before and I will say it again. I dont care who it is that ends up as our stud goaltender of the future, just as long as we get one. Markstrom has injury concerns and I dont see why we should put all our eggs in one basket. I would bring in Bernier and let him compete with Markstrom. If only one of them does well then you keep that one. If they both do well then you take your pick and trade the other away. Neither will command a huge salary so both can be signed.
Bernier can't walk away for free, he'll be an RFA. No team is going to offer sheet him successfully because he hasn't proved much more than Markstrom has in the NHL. Whoever owns his rights will re-sign him to a cheap contract. The Kings won't trade him unless they get a good package that helps them. Either futures, or a good player they feel can push them over the top.

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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
After seeing how good Schneider and Rask have become from a long and patient development plan, I have no problem letting Markstrom tough it out in the minors. I was looking threw some HF archives and I found it funny how a lot of Panther fans thought Marky would be the starter for the Panthers by the 2010/11 season. Boy, sometimes I wish I owned a crystal ball.
Actually, Rask only spent two seasons in the AHL. Varlamov only really played one season in the AHL. Elite goalie prospects don't need to stay in the AHL until their mid-20's. Markstrom is every bit as good as they were when they started playing in the NHL full time, if not better.

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Instead of re-signing Clemmensen, why not have DGM on a 2-way and give him a chance to win the job?

The more I think about it, the more I don't want Clemmensen back. He had a nice year, but let's face it: he is who he is. Because of his year, he's going to get a guaranteed deal from some team.

I have no problem with Markstrom starting in San Antonio next year, but I'd also like to see him have a shot to overwhelm and win a job out of training camp/preseason.

It's a backup goalie. Goalie performance can be volatile and there's certainly no guarantee with Clemmensen next year. He's been a journeyman for a reason. DGM, also a journeyman basically, seems to play well in the A every year and probably should get a shot by now. SA fans seem to love him and, more importantly, he'd be cheaper and give us some options for competition.

Just my opinion about the whole thing.

I've never been for Markstrom being handed a job; however, if he earns it, he should have it.

Edit: Even Rochester fans (the ones who basically hated everything) liked DGM. He basically came in and turned their season around last year. I don't understand why he hasn't even been given an opportunity as a backup yet.
DGM isn't Panthers property. I don't know when his contract expires, but last season he was on an AHL only contract.

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05-18-2012, 01:22 AM
  #52
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It also makes no sense to me if their reasoning is that they want to wait until Theo's contract expires. OK, so say they do that. Then they expect Markstrom to just step right in in his rookie season and be the starter? Why not ease him in a little and let him fight for games with Theo, who btw would be a great mentor for Marky(he's a great pro and guy)if this is to be his last year here? Or are they gonna go and get another starter in the summer of 2013 and start this whole circus over again?

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05-18-2012, 08:42 AM
  #53
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It is either Clemmensen or Bernier as a backup for me.

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05-18-2012, 08:51 AM
  #54
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As much as I love Markstrom and am dying to see him full time in a Cats uniform, I am concerned about his knee. He's gotta prove he can stay healthy and continue to work on his weaknesses.

I'd rather he learn in the AHL and get better there, than come to the NHL get lit up and have his confidence destroyed.

Goalies are a rare and interesting breed - I trust that management is going to handle this one properly.

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05-18-2012, 09:22 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CatWoman34 View Post
As much as I love Markstrom and am dying to see him full time in a Cats uniform, I am concerned about his knee. He's gotta prove he can stay healthy and continue to work on his weaknesses.

I'd rather he learn in the AHL and get better there, than come to the NHL get lit up and have his confidence destroyed.

Goalies are a rare and interesting breed - I trust that management is going to handle this one properly.
Theo and Marky would be a suspect duo in terms of staying healthy. Theo is rarely fully healthy (said so himself) and Marky's got the knee problem. Maybe Tallon doesn't want two injury prone goalies at the same time.

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05-18-2012, 09:24 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
DGM isn't Panthers property. I don't know when his contract expires, but last season he was on an AHL only contract.
Thanks for this info MR. Too bad.

How can they get his rights if they want to?

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05-18-2012, 02:20 PM
  #57
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I think a decision like that should be made at training camp. No one really knows the extent of his injury and how he'll do in the offseason with some rest and some more strength training. He did very well while with the Panthers last season and I am dying to see him in a cats uniform for good. I am not confident in Clemmensen , as he has seemed very shakey while a Panther and I think it's too risky to resign him instead of finding an alternate solution.

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05-18-2012, 04:12 PM
  #58
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I don't like it at all. If you are to say something say that it will be decided in training camp and that he'll go with the two best goalie.

Being in the NHL would also be better for his knee, less playing time, better conditionning coach and medical staff, etc.

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05-18-2012, 04:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Thanks for this info MR. Too bad.

How can they get his rights if they want to?
They have to buy out his contract with San Antonio. But I'm pretty sure they will leave him alone. They won't screw the Rampage like that. He's their goalie.

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I don't like it at all. If you are to say something say that it will be decided in training camp and that he'll go with the two best goalie.

Being in the NHL would also be better for his knee, less playing time, better conditionning coach and medical staff, etc.
this brings up a point, if they want to leave him in the AHL for another year so he can continue to refine his rebound control, then it brings up a question. Do the Rampage even have a goalie coach down there to work with him? I forget.

And the more I think about it, it's idiotic to rule him out even before training camp. Maybe Santos just said that to the press because they want to light a fire under his butt and make him want it even more, than to seem like they are kind of handing him the job. A possibility.

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05-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #60
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This sounds a lot like what happened with Gudbranson last year in regards to him staying in juniors for another season. Needless to say he stayed with the big club and I would expect a similar situation to unfold with Markstrom.

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05-18-2012, 04:43 PM
  #61
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This sounds a lot like what happened with Gudbranson last year in regards to him staying in juniors for another season. Needless to say he stayed with the big club and I would expect a similar situation to unfold with Markstrom.
Exactly. Obviously what happens wrt goalie contracts in the offseason will play a factor in it.

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05-18-2012, 04:56 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Bernier can't walk away for free, he'll be an RFA. No team is going to offer sheet him successfully because he hasn't proved much more than Markstrom has in the NHL. Whoever owns his rights will re-sign him to a cheap contract. The Kings won't trade him unless they get a good package that helps them. Either futures, or a good player they feel can push them over the top.

Yea, I'll admit I'm not sure how the RFA rules work so maybe Im wrong on the assessment of the value. I'd still make the deal. Id be willing to trade players, picks and/or prospects for it in some package. Other than Huberdeau, Bjugstad, and Howden Id be willing to give up some of our prospects to get back what I consider to be a top notch prospect at a position where there is still quite a bit of uncertainty for the Panthers going forward.

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05-18-2012, 08:08 PM
  #63
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Maybe we should forget about Clemmer and go after the relative unknown in Team Finland goalie Petri Vehanen, at age 34 he seems to be having a Tim Thomas revival. Unless someone else has his rights of course....

It would be a good move, everyone knows of course that Finnish goalies are generally better than Swedish ones anyway

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05-18-2012, 09:48 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
They have to buy out his contract with San Antonio. But I'm pretty sure they will leave him alone. They won't screw the Rampage like that. He's their goalie.

this brings up a point, if they want to leave him in the AHL for another year so he can continue to refine his rebound control, then it brings up a question. Do the Rampage even have a goalie coach down there to work with him? I forget.

And the more I think about it, it's idiotic to rule him out even before training camp. Maybe Santos just said that to the because they want to light a fire under his butt and make him want it even more, than to seem like they are kind of handing him the job. A possibility.
I don't think they would screw us out of him either, but then again we don't know if he will be back. As I also think Dov was only signed for this past season. We will find out soon enough. Next season is only like 4 months away.

No we do not have a full time goalie coach here. Robb Tallas is the goalie coach. Saw him and Skundland coach some of the "blsck aces" after Rampage practices. Tallas said he was suppose to come down here more during the season but there was really no point as Marky would either be called up or hurt.

I hate to agree with you on this last bit but it is kind of stupid to say this before training camp. Like others and you have said, we don't know how Jacob will do in training camp. But, at the same time I know of another team who did this samething except with a defensemen I know. Needless to say, he was never called up during the season when he should have been.

I know you all want to see Marky in the NHL but like I have been saying, he needs work on more things down here. I was happy to see that the last two games of the playoffs he was using his paddle more to cover some holes. He still wasn't really using his paddle in front of him, he was using it more on the sides of the net. Still, that is an improvement from earlier in the season.

Like I said earlier in my post, we shall wait and see what happens next season. Hopefully both teams can go even further no matter who is on either team.

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05-19-2012, 12:08 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Exactly. Obviously what happens wrt goalie contracts in the offseason will play a factor in it.
This is exactly the problem with goalies. A team can't have too many (one way) goalie contracts running at the same time.

If you can totally rely on your number one, you can invite guys to camp to battle for the number two spot. Otherwise you need to secure the position early to get one of the guys you think are good enough to step in for extended periods. So, in reality Panthers will have to make the decisions on who next years goalies are going to be long before camp.

Unless they are willing to settle for one those goalies that would be left unsigned after the first couple months of FA. Which is risky when your number one isn't exactly a man of steel. But that route can be taken as well.

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05-19-2012, 12:24 AM
  #66
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If Marky earns the job he should have it, no need to send him down for another year if he can earn the number 1 or 2 job.


Last edited by dh2824: 05-19-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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05-19-2012, 12:27 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
This is exactly the problem with goalies. A team can't have too many (one way) goalie contracts running at the same time.

If you can totally rely on your number one, you can invite guys to camp to battle for the number two spot. Otherwise you need to secure the position early to get one of the guys you think are good enough to step in for extended periods. So, in reality Panthers will have to make the decisions on who next years goalies are going to be long before camp.

Unless they are willing to settle for one those goalies that would be left unsigned after the first couple months of FA. Which is risky when your number one isn't exactly a man of steel. But that route can be taken as well.
Yep, or they can just sign a cheap backup, not Clemmer, and give Marky a fair shot in camp.

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05-19-2012, 12:39 AM
  #68
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What is Foster's contract status?

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05-19-2012, 12:57 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Yep, or they can just sign a cheap backup, not Clemmer, and give Marky a fair shot in camp.
So, if Marky doesn't cut it, they'll have Theo and a cheap guy. Don't think they want to be in that position. They need to be pretty convinced about Marky to take this route.

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05-19-2012, 02:49 AM
  #70
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So, if Marky doesn't cut it, they'll have Theo and a cheap guy. Don't think they want to be in that position. They need to be pretty convinced about Marky to take this route.
I don't see the big deal with having "cheap guy" as a backup goalie, if that ends up being the scenario.

A backup gets approximately 30 games per season in the regular season (and this is assuming Markstrom stays in the AHL all year as it's certainly possible that he can start in the A and get a callup midseason).

There are plenty of goalies in the AHL who could be backups in the NHL. It basically happens every year where no-name goalies get called up and have occasional hot stretches.

Goalies are sort of like middle relievers who become closers in baseball; some of them just need the opportunity.

Scott Clemmensen was recently once the "cheap guy" nobody knew. It took a Martin Brodeur injury for Scott Clemmensen to have an NHL career. Were it not for that injury, Clemmensen would probably still be a journeyman, going back and forth between NHL/AHL.

The downgrade between current AHL goaltenders and the Scott Clemmensen's of the world is minimal. In some cases, it doesn't even exist.

Let's not forget that many on this very board hated Scott Clemmensen before this year began and it took 25 (small sample size and a contract year, at that) regular season starts to change those opinions.

The goal here should be to have roster flexibility, knowing that you have a great prospect (Markstrom) capable of potentially earning a spot out of camp, as well as your starter already under contract (Theodore).

Thank Clemmer for his contributions and let him move on to another team.

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05-19-2012, 04:26 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I don't see the big deal with having "cheap guy" as a backup goalie, if that ends up being the scenario.

A backup gets approximately 30 games per season in the regular season (and this is assuming Markstrom stays in the AHL all year as it's certainly possible that he can start in the A and get a callup midseason).

There are plenty of goalies in the AHL who could be backups in the NHL. It basically happens every year where no-name goalies get called up and have occasional hot stretches.

Goalies are sort of like middle relievers who become closers in baseball; some of them just need the opportunity.

Scott Clemmensen was recently once the "cheap guy" nobody knew. It took a Martin Brodeur injury for Scott Clemmensen to have an NHL career. Were it not for that injury, Clemmensen would probably still be a journeyman, going back and forth between NHL/AHL.

The downgrade between current AHL goaltenders and the Scott Clemmensen's of the world is minimal. In some cases, it doesn't even exist.

Let's not forget that many on this very board hated Scott Clemmensen before this year began and it took 25 (small sample size and a contract year, at that) regular season starts to change those opinions.

The goal here should be to have roster flexibility, knowing that you have a great prospect (Markstrom) capable of potentially earning a spot out of camp, as well as your starter already under contract (Theodore).

Thank Clemmer for his contributions and let him move on to another team.
This is a great post. Hit the nail right on the coffin.

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05-19-2012, 04:31 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Actually, Rask only spent two seasons in the AHL. Varlamov only really played one season in the AHL. Elite goalie prospects don't need to stay in the AHL until their mid-20's. Markstrom is every bit as good as they were when they started playing in the NHL full time, if not better.
I never said goalies can't succeed if they get called up at a young age. What I said is extra time developing as an AHLer/NHL backup can be very helpful. It doesn't matter if a prospect has elite status. This is the NHL and it'll be Dale Tallon who decides when he's ready for the big show.

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05-19-2012, 07:14 AM
  #73
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Saying a player has a knee injury, whatever the type, only provides so much information. The Rehab estimates are also unreliable. For example, any one who watched Kulkov in the playoffs could see that he was playing at less than 80%, but making progress.

The problem with Markstrom is that he has injured the same knee twice with the cause of the second injury being somewhat uncertain. None of us really know how well his rehab is progressing or his longterm prognosis. All we know is that he recovered enough to play in the AHL.

That said, the plan, before his second knee injury, was clearly for him to become Theo's backup next season and then start in 2013-14. That plan has now changed.

My own guess is that,due to the injury, Markstrom failed to get the playing time he needed to progress to the next level and that he also needs to prove that he can be counted on to sty healthy for a season. Thus, my guess is that Clemmer will be resigned.

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05-19-2012, 08:56 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I don't see the big deal with having "cheap guy" as a backup goalie, if that ends up being the scenario.

A backup gets approximately 30 games per season in the regular season (and this is assuming Markstrom stays in the AHL all year as it's certainly possible that he can start in the A and get a callup midseason).

There are plenty of goalies in the AHL who could be backups in the NHL. It basically happens every year where no-name goalies get called up and have occasional hot stretches.

Goalies are sort of like middle relievers who become closers in baseball; some of them just need the opportunity.

Scott Clemmensen was recently once the "cheap guy" nobody knew. It took a Martin Brodeur injury for Scott Clemmensen to have an NHL career. Were it not for that injury, Clemmensen would probably still be a journeyman, going back and forth between NHL/AHL.

The downgrade between current AHL goaltenders and the Scott Clemmensen's of the world is minimal. In some cases, it doesn't even exist.

Let's not forget that many on this very board hated Scott Clemmensen before this year began and it took 25 (small sample size and a contract year, at that) regular season starts to change those opinions.

The goal here should be to have roster flexibility, knowing that you have a great prospect (Markstrom) capable of potentially earning a spot out of camp, as well as your starter already under contract (Theodore).

Thank Clemmer for his contributions and let him move on to another team.
Good points Erick. I think we're all pretty much on the same page, except that I value our backup goalie choice somewhat more than you guys seem to, and would be willing to pay a bit more to be assured. I guess I'm more wary of Theo than average here. The fact that Marky is there makes things easier, but I still think our back up needs to be good enough to deserve a one way deal, thereby bumping Marky to SA possibly even before camp (assuming they only want to carry two goalies in NHL).

And BTW, I don't think Clemmer is the guy, simply because he will demand too much. But if he doesn't...

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05-19-2012, 09:44 AM
  #75
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What is Foster's contract status?
He's an RFA.

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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I don't see the big deal with having "cheap guy" as a backup goalie, if that ends up being the scenario.

A backup gets approximately 30 games per season in the regular season (and this is assuming Markstrom stays in the AHL all year as it's certainly possible that he can start in the A and get a callup midseason).

There are plenty of goalies in the AHL who could be backups in the NHL. It basically happens every year where no-name goalies get called up and have occasional hot stretches.

Goalies are sort of like middle relievers who become closers in baseball; some of them just need the opportunity.

Scott Clemmensen was recently once the "cheap guy" nobody knew. It took a Martin Brodeur injury for Scott Clemmensen to have an NHL career. Were it not for that injury, Clemmensen would probably still be a journeyman, going back and forth between NHL/AHL.

The downgrade between current AHL goaltenders and the Scott Clemmensen's of the world is minimal. In some cases, it doesn't even exist.

Let's not forget that many on this very board hated Scott Clemmensen before this year began and it took 25 (small sample size and a contract year, at that) regular season starts to change those opinions.

The goal here should be to have roster flexibility, knowing that you have a great prospect (Markstrom) capable of potentially earning a spot out of camp, as well as your starter already under contract (Theodore).

Thank Clemmer for his contributions and let him move on to another team.
This is the perfect time to "flex" that flexibility. Clearly Markstrom isn't quite at the level they wanted him to be at this point, but then again you can't divine what a player is going to train and practice like in the offseason and can't rule him out of a job already 4 months before training camp. Signing a cheap(this is not necessarily derogatory) backup would be ideal in this case.

The goaltending position at the NHL is so competitive now and there are only 30 teams, look at the UFA list, including guys fighting to get into the NHL full time like Bishop and Lehner, and free agents from overseas like Vehanen. There are going to be quality goalies unsigned and without a chair when the music stops. It gets more competitive for goalies every summer. It's not like we'd be picking up some scrub. If you were a North American born, not necessarily but for emphasis, goalie who's priority is the NHL, and you have a choice between going overseas to play or settling for a near minimum salary in the NHL, which is about what you'd make in Europe anyway, which would you choose? Goaltending now is so much better and more competitive than it was 20 years ago. The difference between the best goalie in the league today and the worst goalie in the league is less than the difference between the best starter in the league 20 years ago and the worst starter in the league 20 years ago. If we had to "settle" for a guy like Gustavsson or Mason, would that really be so horrible?

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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I never said goalies can't succeed if they get called up at a young age. What I said is extra time developing as an AHLer/NHL backup can be very helpful. It doesn't matter if a prospect has elite status. This is the NHL and it'll be Dale Tallon who decides when he's ready for the big show.
You said Rask was an example of a patient development plan....

Yes, extra development time can't really hurt most of the time, but sometimes it's not necessary. Yes, Tallon will decide who's ready and when, but the point is Markstrom is as good as Rask and Varlamov when they broke in. I'm not saying Markstrom is entitled to anything because of where he was 3 years ago, he's shown he's very close to ready if not ready and that he doesn't need to simmer in the AHL until he's 25 like 90% of goalie prospects do.

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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
Saying a player has a knee injury, whatever the type, only provides so much information. The Rehab estimates are also unreliable. For example, any one who watched Kulkov in the playoffs could see that he was playing at less than 80%, but making progress.

The problem with Markstrom is that he has injured the same knee twice with the cause of the second injury being somewhat uncertain. None of us really know how well his rehab is progressing or his longterm prognosis. All we know is that he recovered enough to play in the AHL.

That said, the plan, before his second knee injury, was clearly for him to become Theo's backup next season and then start in 2013-14. That plan has now changed.

My own guess is that,due to the injury, Markstrom failed to get the playing time he needed to progress to the next level and that he also needs to prove that he can be counted on to sty healthy for a season. Thus, my guess is that Clemmer will be resigned.
It's known that the injury was a very minor one and not as serious as the first.

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