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What will the D look like next year?

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Old
05-18-2012, 01:35 PM
  #101
Dharvey33
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Originally Posted by patsbury View Post
Maatta is not yet drafted and 2 years younger than Tinordi; they are not even the same kind of defenceman (Maatta = offensive; Tinordi = defensive), give us a break comparing both please
I know that i didn't compare them i said just said Tinordi is the boss on the best d squad in the ohl that must mean something no?

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05-18-2012, 01:46 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
I know that i didn't compare them i said just said Tinordi is the boss on the best d squad in the ohl that must mean something no?
Where's 29dryden29 when we need him ?

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05-18-2012, 02:02 PM
  #103
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Is this thread about how to spell Gorges or what? First page cracked me up lool.. If there are no trades,

Markov-Emelin
PK-Gorges
Diaz-Kaberle (Y U STILL HERE?!?!)

I would actually like to see Marc-Edouard Vlasic in a Hab jersey. He said on L'Antichambre he wanted to play for the Habs before his career ended, and with the playoff performance problems in San Jose, if they decide to shake up their lineup (I doubt they trade Vlasic) but a good offer can do the trick.

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05-18-2012, 02:06 PM
  #104
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Emelin - Emelin
Emelin - Emelin
Emelin - Kaberle

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05-18-2012, 02:10 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
I know that i didn't compare them i said just said Tinordi is the boss on the best d squad in the ohl that must mean something no?
From your original post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
One of Tinordi Beaulieu Ellis will get a call up next year for sure. Tinordi is looking more and more like a steal he is the best dman on the knights squad well ahead of Oli Mataa.
By that, I understood Tinordi>Maatta, though the comparison

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05-18-2012, 05:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I really couldn't agree with you more...really.
Hard to defend Gauthier here but the above is also how I feel.

Every move (except Gomez for McDonagh) Gauthier made...I agreed with (this includes stinkers like Campoli and Kaberle...I thought at the time that it would really work).

And everyone has to admit...Gauthier left Timmins many 2nd Rnd Picks to play around with...great stuff .

Anyways...looking forward to the Marc Bergevin era...


----------------- ----------------------


Back to topic:
I prefer to think about 2 yrs from now!!
Tinordi - Subban
Gorges - Dumba
Beaulieu - Ellis
Emelin


To Timmins:
please! please! get Dumba!!!! if he's not already chosen 2nd overall.


About our D for next year...any team that includes sensitive/soft as butter figure skating dmen like Kaberle, Weber, Diaz, and almost-not-so- cerebral-anymore/almost finished-for-good/soft-fragile-usually injured Markov...is a joke. Let's admit it 'cause it's the truth. I'm being too hard on Diaz...I actually htink he did well for his 1st NHL season, but imo he needs a tougher partner (maybe Emelin - Diaz...? or give him a tough UFA dman).
More truth...our Habs needs to get at least TWO TOUGH UFA dmen this summer. If not expensive UFA Ryan Suter, then...TWO not-so-expensive, solid #4-5-6 dmen...not gentle, small, sensitive figure skaters on D.
A robust D is essential if the Habs are to win close, low scoring games. Butterflies need not apply. Did the Habs unnecessarily lose 10-20 points this past season? The only fans who would disagree with this are chronic tankards.

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Old
05-18-2012, 08:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
To be honest I don't foresee major changes to our D this season. It's not secret that our team revolves around a healty Markov. Although Subban may be ready to take over that role sooner rather than later.

Progression of Subban, Emelin, And Diaz should make our backend improved over last years. Hopefully a healthy Markov will change the dynamic considerably. 2 possibilities I foresee, 1 with a 100% Markov, one without.

Markov - Gorges
Subban - Emelin
Kaberle - Diaz

With this possibility of swapping Markov and Subban if his knee can't handle top pairing minutes, or if he doesn't get that lost step back.

Don't forget, for all Kaberle's ineptitude, since donning the habs sweater, he still had the highest ppg pace of all our defenders last season.
I sort of agree with this. I don't expect much change, at least early in the season. Kaberle is a soft-minute player, but he can put up points. He's probably not tradable at this point, though.

As I see it, the Habs need another hard-minute defenceman. Right now, there's only Gorgeous and Subban. The rest need to be sheltered or paired or somehow protected. If Markov does recover, then that would give the Habs a pretty good top 3 and allow the continued progression of Emelin and others. But if he's lost his edge, then the Habs really need another minute-eater if they want to be competitive.

While I think that Bergevin is leery of repeating Gauthier's mistake in not planning for Markov's setback, I don't see him going out and making a big change to the defence. Maybe swapping depth players for variety of style, but not big ticket changes early in the off-season.

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05-18-2012, 08:34 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DogsFan View Post
So, what will our D look like next season? Will we add a D-man in the offseason either via trade or UFA signing? I really don't see how our d falls together outside of the top 3.

Maybe something like this

Markov-Subban (If Markovs knee can handle the minutes)
Jorges-Douglas Murray (Acquired via trade)
Emelin-Diaz
Kaberle-Weber

I think Weber may be traded in the offseason, in that case I hope the Canadiens resign St-Denis. I also really hope Kaberle is used strictly for pp and offensive zone starts only.

in no particular order

Marov, Subban , Emelein, Jorges , Tinordi and Kaberle

Kabby will get mioved at some point and Weber will be gone for sure

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Old
05-18-2012, 09:31 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
I sort of agree with this. I don't expect much change, at least early in the season. Kaberle is a soft-minute player, but he can put up points. He's probably not tradable at this point, though.

As I see it, the Habs need another hard-minute defenceman. Right now, there's only Gorgeous and Subban. The rest need to be sheltered or paired or somehow protected. If Markov does recover, then that would give the Habs a pretty good top 3 and allow the continued progression of Emelin and others. But if he's lost his edge, then the Habs really need another minute-eater if they want to be competitive.

While I think that Bergevin is leery of repeating Gauthier's mistake in not planning for Markov's setback, I don't see him going out and making a big change to the defence. Maybe swapping depth players for variety of style, but not big ticket changes early in the off-season.
Yup, right now Kaberle has very little value in a trade.

Come mid January when he's as always on a 40+ point pace and every team with playoff ambitions wnats an extra PMD and he has just one more season on his contract after the playoff run his value should be pretty decent. Zidlicky got a 2nd a 3rd and a couple of warm bodies and I see no reason why Kaberle couldn't match that or even exceed that, depending on how he plays next season.

And for those who say "If he's playing well why trade him?" because of solid asset management that's why.

Provided at least 2 of Emelin/Diaz/Weber are back that gives the Habs 6 healthy d-men right now, without any UFA signings or AHL guys earning a spot on the roster.

Add in Ellis, Tinordi and Beaulieau all possibly playing with Hamilton next year and as such guys like Nash (forgotten man) and St. Denis are both looking at a logjam at defence.

And it's also possible all 3 of Emelin, Diaz and Weber are on the team next year.

I believe the Habs can have a turnaround as good as the Devils did this year, but it's also possible that they will be in a dog fight for the playoffs or even have the wheels fall off completely. One way or another though the odds of this years draft pick being an impact player already are very slim.

Can trade assets without necessarily giving up on the season. Much like they did a few years ago when they traded Rivet (Pacioretty and Gorges wowowowowowowow) but kept Souray.

Markov is a huge X factor, but there really isn't any reason to think he can't come back and be a top 4 quality d-man for the majority of the season, or better. For those who think he is "done" look at what Teemu Selanne did post lockout.


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Old
05-18-2012, 09:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
A robust D is essential if the Habs are to win close, low scoring games. Butterflies need not apply. Did the Habs unnecessarily lose 10-20 points this past season? The only fans who would disagree with this are chronic tankards.
Playing good defense isn`t just about being robust. It`s about closing passing lanes and moving the puck efficiently once you get it and keeping the puck. Give Plekanec Gionta and a good winger and suddenly you have 2 very good lines and a potentially strong 3rd(Eller Bourque plus ??).

I think with Markov healthy, plus Emelin and Diaz with a year under their belt, we need ONE 20 minute stay at home d-man to form a very solid top 6 plus a guy like Weber or St.Denis at #7. A good defense is not 6 big crease cleaners or 6 skill guys with the puck, it's a mix of both that is usually a strong defense.

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05-18-2012, 09:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Playing good defense isn`t just about being robust. It`s about closing passing lanes and moving the puck efficiently once you get it and keeping the puck. Give Plekanec Gionta and a good winger and suddenly you have 2 very good lines and a potentially strong 3rd(Eller Bourque plus ??).

I think with Markov healthy, plus Emelin and Diaz with a year under their belt, we need ONE 20 minute stay at home d-man to form a very solid top 6 plus a guy like Weber or St.Denis at #7. A good defense is not 6 big crease cleaners or 6 skill guys with the puck, it's a mix of both that is usually a strong defense.
I'd like to see Gill brought back to be honest. Doubt it happens though.

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05-18-2012, 09:49 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
I'd like to see Gill brought back to be honest. Doubt it happens though.
If Robinson can't be persuaded back as an asst. coach, I wouldn't mind Gill. I think he would be great.

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:30 PM
  #113
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Markov Subban
Kaberle Gorges
Weber Emelin
Diaz...

I'd throw the bank at a guy like sure he's exactly what we miss.

But either way, we need a veteran d who is sound defensively and could play with Emelin. Markov won't be ok at the beginning of the season. But by Christmad I see the going well together.

Beginning of the season

Markov Subban
Suter Kaberle
Gorges Emelin

Then when the real Markov is back.

Suter Subban
Markov Emelin
Gorges Kaberle

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:56 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Markov Subban
Kaberle Gorges
Weber Emelin
Diaz...

I'd throw the bank at a guy like sure he's exactly what we miss.

But either way, we need a veteran d who is sound defensively and could play with Emelin. Markov won't be ok at the beginning of the season. But by Christmad I see the going well together.

Beginning of the season

Markov Subban
Suter Kaberle
Gorges Emelin

Then when the real Markov is back.

Suter Subban
Markov Emelin
Gorges Kaberle
WTF???? Gorges won't play on the 3rd pairing......He's the best shutdown D of this team. And you don't sign one of the best D in the league to make him play on the second pairing..... IF and a big IF Suter come to MTL the pairing would look like this:

Suter-Subban
Markov-Gorges
Kaberle-Emelin
Diaz

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Old
05-18-2012, 11:14 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
WTF???? Gorges won't play on the 3rd pairing......He's the best shutdown D of this team. And you don't sign one of the best D in the league to make him play on the second pairing..... IF and a big IF Suter come to MTL the pairing would look like this:

Suter-Subban
Markov-Gorges
Kaberle-Emelin
Diaz
Agreed.........except for the fact that we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of signing Suter.

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Old
05-19-2012, 03:14 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
IE, Bourque trade.

Writing was on the wall the whole year, and repeated by every analyst and journalist throughout this time.

the worst kept secret, and very poor return......FOR A GUY THAT I BOUGHT A CUSTOMIZED JERSEY OF!!!!!!

yes i have a cammy jersey and i'm bitter about it.
Cause it's all about you and your jersey.

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Old
05-19-2012, 03:20 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Andre Marcotte Juste Jorge
Alexandre Hamelin Pierre Karl Simard
Jarrod Tenardieux Le jeune Veber
Thomas Cabernet-sauvignon Frederic St-denis



One of Tinordi Beaulieu Ellis will get a call up next year for sure. Tinordi is looking more and more like a steal he is the best dman on the knights squad well ahead of Oli Mataa.
Thomas Cabernet-sauvignon. Hee hee. That's good writing.

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05-19-2012, 03:32 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
I sort of agree with this. I don't expect much change, at least early in the season. Kaberle is a soft-minute player, but he can put up points. He's probably not tradable at this point, though.

As I see it, the Habs need another hard-minute defenceman. Right now, there's only Gorgeous and Subban. The rest need to be sheltered or paired or somehow protected. If Markov does recover, then that would give the Habs a pretty good top 3 and allow the continued progression of Emelin and others. But if he's lost his edge, then the Habs really need another minute-eater if they want to be competitive.

While I think that Bergevin is leery of repeating Gauthier's mistake in not planning for Markov's setback, I don't see him going out and making a big change to the defence. Maybe swapping depth players for variety of style, but not big ticket changes early in the off-season.
If there's one thing Bergy knows about it's D. Our's is too injured, too soft, and too inexperienced. I don't expect just one FA coming, I expect 1 FA and one more in trade. Bergy will pick up 2 effective D this summer, book it. You need 8 NHL ready D men to start the year, and 2 good subs. We have the subs, we do not have 8 NHL ready D.

Campoli gone.
One of Diaz or Weber gone too.
Kaberle gets until the deadline. I hope he's working out this summer, because he's out of shape, and it shows. Hope he quits smoking.

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05-19-2012, 06:18 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
I'd like to see Gill brought back to be honest. Doubt it happens though.
At this point in his careeer he is too one dimensional IMHO. We need a guy that can still play on the top 2 pair.

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05-19-2012, 06:23 AM
  #120
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Agreed.........except for the fact that we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of signing Suter.
If we throw enough money at him he would come...but at the end of the day you're talking about Suter, a very good d-man but not a game changer, if you give him a 6 year 48-50 mil deal is he going to instantly make you a contender? He isn't Malkin Crosby Stamkos or Ovechkin.

I would be more tempted to overpay for Parise,maybe Bergevin can convince him playing for the Montreal Canadiens is his dream and taht the team will be a contender soon...then offer him 6 years 42 mil.

...but at the end of the day we'd probably have to overpay to get him away from Boston, Detroit, Minnesota, St.Louis etc Something like 6 years and 49-50 mil, is it worth it?

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05-19-2012, 06:25 AM
  #121
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If there's one thing Bergy knows about it's D. Our's is too injured, too soft, and too inexperienced. I don't expect just one FA coming, I expect 1 FA and one more in trade. Bergy will pick up 2 effective D this summer, book it. You need 8 NHL ready D men to start the year, and 2 good subs. We have the subs, we do not have 8 NHL ready D.

Campoli gone.
One of Diaz or Weber gone too.
Kaberle gets until the deadline. I hope he's working out this summer, because he's out of shape, and it shows. Hope he quits smoking.
He also knows Diaz and Emelin are in their prime years and were just getting their feet wet last year. Plus Markov was basically not here and should be from day 1 next year. Strong depth is still needed but I expect a lot of improvement internally.

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05-19-2012, 07:27 AM
  #122
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Don't know why people keep saying that we're "stuck" with Kaberle. I'm sure I've seen some people stating how "great" he was with us and that we were whining for nothing. Great players do get traded right?

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05-19-2012, 08:21 AM
  #123
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Gorges is a good steady d-man but he never should have been used on the first pairing.

Plus he would be a perfect complement to Kaberle who once was a first pairing d... Not so long ago.

Emelin needs to play with a experience stay at home d because he's still prone to make mistakes and Markov probably won't be up to par right at the beginning of the season. Subban will be and he can cover for a lot of mistakes.

With the way things are that's my plan but we need that vet d that will cover the new d that we bring in the line up.

I'd seriously ask to washington how mich to bring back hammer.

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05-19-2012, 08:26 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Gorges is a good steady d-man but he never should have been used on the first pairing.

Plus he would be a perfect complement to Kaberle who once was a first pairing d... Not so long ago.

Emelin needs to play with a experience stay at home d because he's still prone to make mistakes and Markov probably won't be up to par right at the beginning of the season. Subban will be and he can cover for a lot of mistakes.

With the way things are that's my plan but we need that vet d that will cover the new d that we bring in the line up.

I'd seriously ask to washington how mich to bring back hammer.
Emelin will be in his second year and we should see dramatic improvement. We acn see how goot he can be looking at him at the WC's. He showed flshes of making an impact and a few miscues also. I think now the adjustment period is behind him, I would slot him at #5 as insurance for Markov but I expect him to play like a #3-4 NHL d-man.

Markov we should expect him to be at full speed un less he has physical issues, he will have the benefit of camp and preseason instaed of like this yaer having to jump in with everybody else in midseason shape while he was in his traning camp/preseason phase.

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05-19-2012, 10:19 AM
  #125
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Gorges - Subban
This pairing was fantastic for us last year, they played great against the other teams top lines with a combined +25. Breaking them up makes no sense at this point.

Markov - Emelin
This will be a solid second pairing if two things happen. 1) Markov continues to get healthy and can show us 90% of what he used to be. 2) Emelin's development continues and plays with the edge that the Habs badly need.

Diaz - Weber - Kaberle
Honestly, only one of these defensemen should be kept. If ownership is willing to eat the Kaberle contract in the minors then you go ahead and send him back to Praha. Otherwise, Weber is your odd man out and Diaz might stick around as a #8.

There are 3 UFA d-men that I think the Canadiens should target to fill the void until Tinordi et al are ready.
1) Barrett Jackman - 31 years old - Earned $3.625 with STL last year.
Strengths: Tough as nails, blocks shots, clears the front of the net.
Weaknesses: Foot Speed, Weak first pass.
My Offer: 3 years $15 Million.

2) Milan Jurcina - 28 years old - Earned $1.600 with NYI last year.
Strengths: Size, reach, decent shot blocker & PK player
Weaknesses: Needs to play tougher, mobility, first pass
My Offer: 2 years $3 Million

3) Shaone Morrisson - 29 years old - Earned $2.075 with BUF last year while playing for Rochester.
Strengths: Size, Toughness, Defence first
Weaknesses: Foot Speed, Mobility
My Offer: 1 year $1 Million / $105 K (AHL)

Asuuming they can sign all 3 players
Gorges Subban
Markov Jackman
Emelin Jurcina
Morrison Diaz

All eight on the team with the bottom four rotating in and out depending on play and the opponent.

Weber would be traded & Kaberle would be playing for Slavia Praha in Czech Rep.

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