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The Chris Kreider Thread 2.0 - Take Schroeder!!

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Old
05-19-2012, 07:02 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
Can CK get 10 goals this year? That would be amazing.
if he hits 10 we win the cup

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05-19-2012, 07:03 PM
  #102
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Can't believe how well he has done being thrown into the playoffs. What a godsend

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05-19-2012, 08:04 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
True, but you cant say that any other player would have been a bust. Kreider has been put in a good situation where he wasnt expected to be the savior of a franchise.

I'm starting to believe the Rangers are slowly becoming the old Devils/Red Wings, in that no matter who you draft, they will fit into the system and contribute.
It's kinda weird in a couple ways. The questions/criticisms about Kreider and what he did or did not bring were all over the place. But I distinctly remember that people were saying he had little to no hockey sense, that he was fast, big but that was about it, that we would be lucky if he were a higher end Freddy Sojostrom, that we were crazy to draft a kid from prep school and on and on.

Then I actually got to see him play a few times and I honestly wondered a little. I came away felling short changed more than once. Firstly, his team mates seemed unaware that he was on the ice or were just flat unable to hit him with a pass, I did not think he moved his feet enough. He did not seem to be a factor in many of the dozen or so games I watched. But there were flashes. Brief moments where you saw the potential clearly. But they were too infrequent and it was frustrating as hell.

Point being that how he is playing now is a ridiculously clear example that the pros knew what they were doing....and that many of us clearly did not know what we were talking about. You can never say how a player will turn out and I'm sure that even Clark is a little surprised himself. Still, I've NEVER seen a prospect validate the faith that an organization had in him the way Kreider has.

Clark and the Rangers look like swamis right now. I am left feeling strangely, weirdly confident that the picks they make will turn out pretty solid.... because the track record has been firmly established at this point.

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05-19-2012, 08:19 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
Can CK get 10 goals this year? That would be amazing.
Doubtful. If we play 7 games in both ECF and the Finals, that still means we have only 11 games left. To expect him to score 5 goals in 11 games is a lot. You never know, he could get a hat trick. In fact, he could possibly get 4 goals (Step scored almost got 4 goals in his first game, when he had the hat trick plus the post in the third period). But to expect 5 goals in 11 playoff games is a lot for anyone except a superstar. And this is the max number of games he could possibly play in. There's a good chance that we won't go to Game 7 in all 4 rounds. We could possibly play as little as 3 more games before being eliminated.

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05-19-2012, 10:01 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
I don't always agree with SSM, but all you do when you talk about prospects is extrapolate off their junior scoring numbers. That's it. It's very clear to me that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about as far as prospect development goes. You appear to have very little grasp of how speed, skill, shot, size, play in traffic, compete level, etc translate to the higher levels. You're even off base about SSM, because he trashes Christian Thomas' hockey IQ pretty regularly.
Thank you.

There's a short list of guys believe will be NHL players, that are not currently in the lineup now.

Erixon
Miller
McIlrath
Fasth
Yogan
Fogarty

Im not yet sold on St. Croix. But he's intriguing.

Im not sure Thomas will overcome his size. Same with Bourque. And McColgan.

Don't see where Noreau or Ceresnak fit.

JAM isn't even signed.

I had arguments with why Valentenko had no future here. Those folks were arguing Del Zotto didn't.

Kundratek doesn't have a shot.

This guy is on a crusade. Same as Bleed Ranger Blue.

Ill just keep proving them wrong.

Miller IS going to be a heck on an NHL player. Kid had a fine season. He was one of Plymouth's top players. He would have been one of North Dakota's top players had he gone that route.

He's a developed player. He's already got a foundation of two way play. He's big, strong.

Forget, again, that JEFF GORTON just recently said he's going to compete for an NHL position in September. Hinting that the staff isn't afraid to insert young guys if they appear ready.

Kreider didn't "light up" the NCAA to the tune of 30 goals 60 points.

That's not how it works. Its not about points in lower levels. Its about how their game in every aspect improves.

Unlike Kreider who has a very high level of offensive instincts. Miller won't be expected to be a top six player. Not yet. He can be slotted into a third line role.

Faceoffs, positioning, playmaking, physical play. That's Miller's game.

Gorton didn't mention Hartford. Buy if they feel he's better off in Hartford than Plymouth, he could be headed there after camp.

Where Miller and Kreider differ, other than obvious physical tools, is when Miller was drafted he was already a solid two way player. Kreider was more one way and needed to develop his two way game. He did.

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05-19-2012, 10:09 PM
  #106
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I'm still shocked at the difference in Kreider's game from college, and am a little disconcerted that York didn't get more out of him

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05-19-2012, 10:21 PM
  #107
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I attribute it to him playing with better players.

To a man, most of the guys on this Rangers squad is a better player than anyone Kreider was playing with at BC.

Guys at BC didn't know how to exploit his strengths the way an NHL player will.

They make him better, he makes them better. Reciprocal.

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05-19-2012, 10:55 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
The only thing I was mad about was him going to BC. To me, picking a BC-bound kid was a kiss of death. I had little knowledge of the pick, TBH. In all fairness, Kreider has (so far) defied the odds by being a productive NHL goal scorer after being at Boston College.

I gotta give Kreider credit -- York did everything to keep this kid down for two seasons but he was just too damn skilled to let it stifle his development.

Also, Schroeder had a very good season in the AHL this year. At both ends of the ice. He's developing nicely. It's just hard to crack a President's trophy team. He should get a look next year.
I'm curious as to whether you wanted him at another school or major junior? Because as far as colleges go there aren't too many more that have produced nhl talent like BC in the past 15 years. I'd like to see another school with 15-20 guys in the league. But if you're saying he should've gone major junior, thats another argument entirely.

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05-19-2012, 11:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by sigx15 View Post
I'm curious as to whether you wanted him at another school or major junior? Because as far as colleges go there aren't too many more that have produced nhl talent like BC in the past 15 years. I'd like to see another school with 15-20 guys in the league. But if you're saying he should've gone major junior, thats another argument entirely.
He's probably talking about people that can score. Sure BC has made NHLers, but how many of them are legit scoring threats in the 30 goal range.

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05-19-2012, 11:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Kreider should be recognized for doing the kinds of things that get you goals.
Somebody taught him that it is important to go to the net, to make the goalie guess, to distract him. Nothing even to do with crease-crashing or running a goaltender.

Did most other Ranger forwards un-learn this basic precept over the years....?

Edit: until Kreider, I forgot what a well timed tip-in by the Rangers even looked like.
This is what I love most about him, he goes to the front of the net and knows what to do. It sounds simple but it's difficult to do, just ask Graves.

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05-19-2012, 11:37 PM
  #111
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Kreider has been a Godsend. There is nothing about him I don't like

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05-19-2012, 11:39 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
It's kinda weird in a couple ways. The questions/criticisms about Kreider and what he did or did not bring were all over the place. But I distinctly remember that people were saying he had little to no hockey sense, that he was fast, big but that was about it, that we would be lucky if he were a higher end Freddy Sojostrom, that we were crazy to draft a kid from prep school and on and on.

Then I actually got to see him play a few times and I honestly wondered a little. I came away felling short changed more than once. Firstly, his team mates seemed unaware that he was on the ice or were just flat unable to hit him with a pass, I did not think he moved his feet enough. He did not seem to be a factor in many of the dozen or so games I watched. But there were flashes. Brief moments where you saw the potential clearly. But they were too infrequent and it was frustrating as hell.

Point being that how he is playing now is a ridiculously clear example that the pros knew what they were doing....and that many of us clearly did not know what we were talking about. You can never say how a player will turn out and I'm sure that even Clark is a little surprised himself. Still, I've NEVER seen a prospect validate the faith that an organization had in him the way Kreider has.

Clark and the Rangers look like swamis right now. I am left feeling strangely, weirdly confident that the picks they make will turn out pretty solid.... because the track record has been firmly established at this point.
I have felt the same way many atime. But there were examples or glimpses of sound fundamentals that were there. Kreider is a coaches dream because he respects them so well as to follow the program. Boston College was all about the team. Never player developement. We hardly saw Kreider improve throughout his 3 years there, yet there were still enough great plays or individual efforts to make us think we have to see whats behind the curtain. Wait till Kreider gets totally comfortable with his responsibilities and is allowed to really let go.

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05-19-2012, 11:57 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
It's pretty fun just to look back on these things.

Jas made a great call with Kreider at #19, and Jon and Supersonic Monkey right off the bat liked the Kreider pick. I remember being a fan of it myself, being that I knew he'd be a project pick, but had tremendous raw talent.

I did want them to trade up for Schenn and Kulikov though.

But as a year to year thing...

07 - I was hoping that Cherepanov, Voracek, or Couture would fall to us.

08 - I remember screaming for the Rangers to draft Eberle, we needed goal scorers, but was happy with Del Zotto selection.

09 - Schenn/Kulikov/Kreider

10 - Burmistrov, I was so pissed when Atlanta took him.

11 - Wanted Couturier, Armia, or Biggs. Not disappointed at all with the JT Miller selection. Thought he was USA's best forward at the WJC.

07- Liked Cherepanov
08- Liked Del Zotto and Colin Wilson; didn't like that year!
09- Liked Kreider, Palmieri, and Ashton; Klingberg in the 2nd
10- Niederreitter, Skinner, and Nelson
11- McNeil and Biggs

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05-20-2012, 12:00 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Im not much for drafting pint sized players, either.

See my comments on Grimaldi last June.
Just don't want anymore little guys. Been through the smurf phase and rangers being physically overmatched through the years.

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05-20-2012, 12:15 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
You are always so optimistic about everyone. Every time I see your post about any of our top prospects, you are foaming at the mouth with love. I know you will respond by giving me a couple examples where you deviated from the rule, but I've actually paid attention to your posts in the recent months, and every one that I remember was, "omg! Our guy is the greatest. It's unbelievable how good he is." To be honest with you, it detracts from your credibility.

Miller had a very average season. He only scored ppg in juniors as the team's 5th scorer, then only 1 point in 8 AHL games. From the games I've seen, the kid right now looks like a downgraded version of Brandon Dubinsky. Kind of what Dubi was this year as he struggled to score.

I'm not saying he can't improve. Look at Callahan. The Rangers refused to give him an NHL contract at the age of 20 and he had to go back for an overager season. But he showed tremendous improvement since. But we don't know that Miller will improve above and beyond reasonable expectations. The truth is that right now, he's looking increasingly like a future third liner. Let's hope he can improve next year and rise up beyond current expectations.
Somebody should do a poll. To me Miller did fine as a freshman. Like to see him dominate next season in junior.

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05-20-2012, 12:23 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by wafflepadsave View Post
07- Liked Cherepanov
08- Liked Del Zotto and Colin Wilson; didn't like that year!
09- Liked Kreider, Palmieri, and Ashton; Klingberg in the 2nd
10- Niederreitter, Skinner, and Nelson
11- McNeil and Biggs
09 - Kreider
10 - Tarasenko. I lost it when they took McIlrath over all of the available options.
11 - Armia. Happy with Miller, but I desperately wanted Army.

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Soon.
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05-20-2012, 12:26 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
That's the feeling that I have been having as well. I remember in the 90s when the Debbies would draft someone, his stock would immediately rise in my either just because I thought the Debs knew what they were doing, and usually that was accurate.

It seems like the Rangers are becoming something like that as well. From 2004 to 2009, we drafted one guy in the top-10, so we aren't talking about us having a bunch of top-5 picks.

The result? We drafted 14 NHLers, plus guys like Grachev, Werek, Bourque, who still have hope, as well as Cherry who died. Of these players, there were 10 guys who are average or better NHLers (Callahan, Dubinsky, Korps, Kreider, Anisimov, Hagelin, Stepan, Del Zotto, Staal, Sauer.)

If we could do half as well from 2010 to 2015 (meaning we draft 5 average or better NHLers plus 2-3 more low-end ones), I will be very happy.To be able to average 2-3 NHLers per draft is unreal.
With all the young guys in the line up now, it gives the rangers the flexability to swing for the fences for some really high end skill whether it be risky picks or trading up!

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05-20-2012, 12:34 AM
  #118
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Kreider sure does seem to understand why a simple style of hockey, the fundamental style, is important.
It is exhilirating that along with his obvious physical prowess, he just seems to 'get it'. I hope that nothing changes the way he heads to the slot looking for pucks, jumps in the lanes to make things happen. The way he came off the boards into the slot to tip McDonagh's shot was beautiful. It was so strange to see a Ranger player make a move that strong, effective and purposeful.

As he gets to know his linemates more and more, I pray he does not copy their habits indiscriminately. I think he is too intelligent for that, though.

Hey Torts, since you often state that when game tape rolls, the Rangers are zeroing in on what they did, and not what the opposing teams do, how about zeroing in on that aspect of how a forward should play?


Last edited by trilobyte: 05-20-2012 at 12:40 AM. Reason: spelling
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05-20-2012, 12:34 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Thank you.

There's a short list of guys believe will be NHL players, that are not currently in the lineup now.

Erixon
Miller
McIlrath
Fasth
Yogan
Fogarty


Im not yet sold on St. Croix. But he's intriguing.

Im not sure Thomas will overcome his size. Same with Bourque. And McColgan.

Don't see where Noreau or Ceresnak fit.

JAM isn't even signed.

I had arguments with why Valentenko had no future here. Those folks were arguing Del Zotto didn't.

Kundratek doesn't have a shot.

This guy is on a crusade. Same as Bleed Ranger Blue.

Ill just keep proving them wrong.

Miller IS going to be a heck on an NHL player. Kid had a fine season. He was one of Plymouth's top players. He would have been one of North Dakota's top players had he gone that route.

He's a developed player. He's already got a foundation of two way play. He's big, strong.

Forget, again, that JEFF GORTON just recently said he's going to compete for an NHL position in September. Hinting that the staff isn't afraid to insert young guys if they appear ready.

Kreider didn't "light up" the NCAA to the tune of 30 goals 60 points.

That's not how it works. Its not about points in lower levels. Its about how their game in every aspect improves.

Unlike Kreider who has a very high level of offensive instincts. Miller won't be expected to be a top six player. Not yet. He can be slotted into a third line role.

Faceoffs, positioning, playmaking, physical play. That's Miller's game.

Gorton didn't mention Hartford. Buy if they feel he's better off in Hartford than Plymouth, he could be headed there after camp.

Where Miller and Kreider differ, other than obvious physical tools, is when Miller was drafted he was already a solid two way player. Kreider was more one way and needed to develop his two way game. He did.
If Miller can do that, I'll be excited. The best part is that we don't have to rush him at all.

Those guys are probably it too. Anybody else is icing on the cake. Actually pulling for Talbot as well.

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05-20-2012, 12:40 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I attribute it to him playing with better players.

To a man, most of the guys on this Rangers squad is a better player than anyone Kreider was playing with at BC.

Guys at BC didn't know how to exploit his strengths the way an NHL player will.

They make him better, he makes them better. Reciprocal.
Bet they weren't allowed to either.

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05-20-2012, 03:09 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Thank you.

There's a short list of guys believe will be NHL players, that are not currently in the lineup now.

Erixon
Miller
McIlrath
Fasth
Yogan
Fogarty

Im not yet sold on St. Croix. But he's intriguing.

Im not sure Thomas will overcome his size. Same with Bourque. And McColgan.

Don't see where Noreau or Ceresnak fit.

JAM isn't even signed.

I had arguments with why Valentenko had no future here. Those folks were arguing Del Zotto didn't.

Kundratek doesn't have a shot.

This guy is on a crusade. Same as Bleed Ranger Blue.

Ill just keep proving them wrong.

Miller IS going to be a heck on an NHL player. Kid had a fine season. He was one of Plymouth's top players. He would have been one of North Dakota's top players had he gone that route.

He's a developed player. He's already got a foundation of two way play. He's big, strong.

Forget, again, that JEFF GORTON just recently said he's going to compete for an NHL position in September. Hinting that the staff isn't afraid to insert young guys if they appear ready.

Kreider didn't "light up" the NCAA to the tune of 30 goals 60 points.

That's not how it works. Its not about points in lower levels. Its about how their game in every aspect improves.

Unlike Kreider who has a very high level of offensive instincts. Miller won't be expected to be a top six player. Not yet. He can be slotted into a third line role.

Faceoffs, positioning, playmaking, physical play. That's Miller's game.

Gorton didn't mention Hartford. Buy if they feel he's better off in Hartford than Plymouth, he could be headed there after camp.

Where Miller and Kreider differ, other than obvious physical tools, is when Miller was drafted he was already a solid two way player. Kreider was more one way and needed to develop his two way game. He did.
Would a more physical Stepan be a good comparison for Miller? If not who does he compare to?

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05-20-2012, 04:15 AM
  #122
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Congratulations Chris Kreider !

Mods feel free to move it in the Kreider thread if its necassary.

Quote:
...Kreider's deflection past Brodeur at 5:16 of the third gave the visitors some breathing room at 2-0. Ryan McDonagh's blast from the left point deflected off Kreider, who was cruising through the slot. The goal was the Rangers' first non-empty-net, 5-on-5 goal of the series since the third period of Game 1.



Kreider's fifth goal of the postseason set a new record for most playoff goals from a player who had never played in a regular-season game. Montreal's Eddie Mazur had four.
Source: nhl.com

Im really happy for him! Plays better each game and had scored some big goals since hes been with the team. Hopefully more to come!!

Anyway, congratulations Chris and enjoy your day!

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05-20-2012, 04:32 AM
  #123
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And some Columbus fans not only think that Sather will be crawling back to inquire about Nash, but somehow Kreider might still be moved for Nash.

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05-20-2012, 05:11 AM
  #124
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Hes got lots to learn, but hes 230 pounds, huge butt and legs. Hes solid and he can fly. Quick release. He still has to learn how to hit. When he was in college, he was reluctant because every time he did hit somebody, they fell down and hed get a penalty, said Sather. He could be a big body scorer like (Detroits Johan) Franzen. Hes got the will, the temperament, good head on his shoulders. Its going to be interesting to see how far he can go.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...+%2F+Hockey%29

Kreider has even improved in that area. He has gotten stronger and more confident making plays with the puck below the hash marks. He doesn't know how good he can be. Brad Richards said Kreider's hockey sense is the reason why he has made the transition from college hockey to the NHL playoffs. Kreider was knocked for lacking hockey sense.

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05-20-2012, 06:30 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I attribute it to him playing with better players.

To a man, most of the guys on this Rangers squad is a better player than anyone Kreider was playing with at BC.

Guys at BC didn't know how to exploit his strengths the way an NHL player will.

They make him better, he makes them better. Reciprocal.
I think it's also part due to something you already alluded to. The BC program is about winning--it's not about what player can score the most points. They have a balanced attack and they roll their lines. I think York looked at Kreider as someone who certainly was going to help their offense but who needed to improve the most in other areas of the game. No doubt in my mind that he turned him into a better all around player which is another reason why he could step right into the playoffs and not drive Torts crazy looking like a Alexander Semin clone. He got his game rounded out at BC.

I think a lot of us did think he'd be a better pro than an amateur--improve playing with better players. I didn't think it would happen this fast though. There are some games already in which he looks like our best forward out there which is pretty amazing--time to wake up again Gabby--you played pretty well against Washington--now you've gone back to sleep.

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