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Old
05-19-2012, 06:03 PM
  #851
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To say the least, I agree (with Brule that is, **** Chelsea in the ass).

There are numbers that I look at in the minors...but the minors exist to be a learning experience for prospects, not for guys to compile gaudy stats when clearly being above the competition. If Bauer was in the Pirates system his numbers wouldn't be as gaudy because the Pirates would be taking a more hands-on approach to his development (for better or worse).

But Bauer progressing through the minors more quickly than Cole is an utterly ridiculous thing to be complaining about. If all we were worried about was Cole throwing heat past the batters in A ball he'd have absurd numbers too, but he's there to work on his complimentary pitches, not throw 98 mph heaters 70 times a game.

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05-19-2012, 06:12 PM
  #852
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Starks needs to just quit. He's a below-average LT, and even worse RT. If you can't beat out Colon for a position on the offensive line, you officially suck.
Colon is a good player. He just takes too many penalties and has had injuries.

Starks is also way better than Jonathan Scott. He's also better than Essex who they've recently moved to LT. I don't think Max is an ideal starter but he's very serviceable as a backup swing tackle.

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05-19-2012, 06:14 PM
  #853
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Max isn't great, but he was solid at what he did last year and is a clear upgrade over the excrement pile that makes up Jonathan Scott. I'd want him back only in the name of depth. At this point I'm not expecting Starks to be back unless/until an injury happens.

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05-19-2012, 06:31 PM
  #854
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Clint hurdle makes horrible decisions that could have been much worse.

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05-19-2012, 06:32 PM
  #855
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Tigers pick up a run on a Barajas passed ball. 4-3 Buc's going to the 8th.

EDIT: Shame to see Pedro watch strike 3 on a very mediocre breaking ball right in his wheelhouse. Buc's 1st and 3rd, 1 out top of the 8th. Would be nice to get some offense from someone other than Cutch (who has 2 homers today, 4 rbi's). And McGhee strikes out. Up to Nate now. Takes his obligatory strike one, and then hits a slow roller to short, inning over.

EDIT2: Rafael Belliard looks like an aged Hines Ward. That last pitch by Cruz was just wicked. Gets the K. Hot shot to McGhee, gets the unassisted DP. Going to the 9th. Would be nice to get some insurance, but I doubt it, unless it comes from Cutch. Then it is Hammer time. Another good outing by Burnett who has been very good, save the one putrid start.


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Old
05-19-2012, 07:13 PM
  #856
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Hanrahan gets 2 quick outs, but walks next batter. Fielder up next...*shudders*

Hanrahan going right after Fielder. High heat, 98mph.

OH YES!!! What a great job by Hanrahan on Fielder, gets the K!

Buc's win, Buc's win.

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05-19-2012, 07:16 PM
  #857
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Raise it!

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05-19-2012, 07:58 PM
  #858
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At least a few scouts disagree with the assessment of hansen needing to move off SS, and the ones who've voiced concerns usually cite his arm rather than range or build.
He does have a lot of errors though.

Bauer could be 20 game winner every season and it still wouldnt mean that it was wrong to draft Cole. You draft according to what the player could or should be. You dont have the benefit of hindsight to say that 'cole will fall short of projections in all these ways and bauer will exceed projections in all these other ways.'

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05-19-2012, 09:22 PM
  #859
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Bauer could be Lincecum. Cole should be A.J. Burnett. I'd rather have Tim Lincecum than A.J. Burnett, regardless of how the first month of this season has gone for the pair of them.

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05-19-2012, 09:29 PM
  #860
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You say A.J. Burnett, I say non-roid Clemens. Cole's ceiling is higher than what Burnett turned out to be.

If Cole fills out his potential he's winning a Cy Young or two in his career. Burnett never even made an All Star Game (a fact that honestly shocked me).

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At least a few scouts disagree with the assessment of hansen needing to move off SS, and the ones who've voiced concerns usually cite his arm rather than range or build.
He does have a lot of errors though.
I'd tie arm strength and build together. You're not going to see many guys sitting at ~155 pounds with strong arms, and Hanson's build doesn't exactly say he's perfect for adding too much more (my guess is he'll be closer to 175 by the time he makes it to the majors...but Josh Harrison sits at 190 despite being 3 inches shorter). Maybe he'll fill out, but he doesn't really have the frame to suggest that's going to happen...and you just don't see too many 5'11", 155 lb guys playing short, even if they have good gloves (which Hanson doesn't...not a huge concern right now since he's only 19, but his glove is his biggest weakness right now...if it wasn't about talking about his projectability I wouldn't even mention it since I pay almost no attention to fielding numbers in the minors, especially the low minors).

By all means I'm all for keeping him at short for as long as possible. There's no doubt just about any player is more valuable at short than second considering the dearth of short stops that can do more than one thing right in this league.


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05-19-2012, 10:11 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
To say the least, I agree (with Brule that is, **** Chelsea in the ass).

There are numbers that I look at in the minors...but the minors exist to be a learning experience for prospects, not for guys to compile gaudy stats when clearly being above the competition. If Bauer was in the Pirates system his numbers wouldn't be as gaudy because the Pirates would be taking a more hands-on approach to his development (for better or worse).

But Bauer progressing through the minors more quickly than Cole is an utterly ridiculous thing to be complaining about. If all we were worried about was Cole throwing heat past the batters in A ball he'd have absurd numbers too, but he's there to work on his complimentary pitches, not throw 98 mph heaters 70 times a game.
exactly.

Even the stats you can use to gauge his development like K/BB ratio, that is often skewed because people don't realize that sometimes they send him out to the mound and tell him to only throw fast balls and stuff like that. They don't even really care about winnings games until you reach the AAA level and even then, its secondary most of the time.



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Bauer could be Lincecum. Cole should be A.J. Burnett. I'd rather have Tim Lincecum than A.J. Burnett, regardless of how the first month of this season has gone for the pair of them.
what? How are you drawing those parallels? What if i say, Bauer could be Mark Prior and Cole could be Jered Weaver? Does that hold any value?

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05-19-2012, 10:24 PM
  #862
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Bauer is Rick Ankiel and Cole is Walter Johnson. Aw yeah.

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05-19-2012, 10:26 PM
  #863
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Bauer is Steve Blass and Cole is Pedro Martinez

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05-19-2012, 10:35 PM
  #864
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I say A.J. Burnett because A.J. Burnett is exactly what Cole has always been, a guy with great stuff who is consistently hittable. Roger Clemens damn sure didn't give up a 3.38 ERA in college. He was an extremely successful college player. I just don't see Cole fulfilling this nebulous "potential" you have him rated as having. Despite what you guys say about stats, college stats are still the most reliable predictor of professional success. It's certainly not 100%, but it's the Moneyball way of drafting.

And the reason A.J. Burnett hasn't ever made the All Star game is because he's not that good. He has great stuff but for whatever reason is not as effective as he is talented. He has a career WHIP of 1.33, which doesn't scream All Star to me.



EDIT: To end on a positive note, Andrew McCutchen is an amazing ****ing ballplayer. He hits, he walks, he slugs and he plays gold glove defense in center field. If the Pirates could even find two light-hitting guys who got on base a lot to put in front of him, they'd be contending for the division lead. He's that good. He's pretty much the entire offense for a team that's not far below .500.

I'm pretty sure he's the best ballplayer I've ever seen wearing a Pirates cap, and I saw Bonds in play person, too.


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05-19-2012, 11:29 PM
  #865
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Watching KDKA sports, they flashed some stats on Cutch.

McCutchen has scored or driven in 44 of the Pirates 115 runs, which accounts for 38% of our run production.

Josh Hamilton is at 39% of Rangers' runs.

Matt Kemp at 33% of the Dodgers' runs.

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05-20-2012, 09:34 AM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
I say A.J. Burnett because A.J. Burnett is exactly what Cole has always been, a guy with great stuff who is consistently hittable. Roger Clemens damn sure didn't give up a 3.38 ERA in college. He was an extremely successful college player. I just don't see Cole fulfilling this nebulous "potential" you have him rated as having. Despite what you guys say about stats, college stats are still the most reliable predictor of professional success. It's certainly not 100%, but it's the Moneyball way of drafting.

And the reason A.J. Burnett hasn't ever made the All Star game is because he's not that good. He has great stuff but for whatever reason is not as effective as he is talented. He has a career WHIP of 1.33, which doesn't scream All Star to me.



EDIT: To end on a positive note, Andrew McCutchen is an amazing ****ing ballplayer. He hits, he walks, he slugs and he plays gold glove defense in center field. If the Pirates could even find two light-hitting guys who got on base a lot to put in front of him, they'd be contending for the division lead. He's that good. He's pretty much the entire offense for a team that's not far below .500.

I'm pretty sure he's the best ballplayer I've ever seen wearing a Pirates cap, and I saw Bonds in play person, too.
I would put Clemente in the lead, whom I saw as a kid, then Dave Parker and then Cutch. I throw out Bonds simply because he's a dick.

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05-20-2012, 10:35 AM
  #867
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I would put Clemente in the lead, whom I saw as a kid, then Dave Parker and then Cutch. I throw out Bonds simply because he's a dick.
Let's not forget about Honus Wagner. Granted, it was different era but he should be in at least top 3 as greatest Pirate ever.

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05-20-2012, 01:32 PM
  #868
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Let's not forget about Honus Wagner. Granted, it was different era but he should be in at least top 3 as greatest Pirate ever.
They're just talking about guys they've seen live.

McCutchen wins this one in a cake walk for me.

I started watching baseball in 1993 (or at least consciously so). **** me.

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05-20-2012, 02:14 PM
  #869
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Great pitcher's duel today. Corriea looks good. Lots of flyball outs but he is keeping it in the yard.

Scherzer has been electric. He has great stuff. 9k's already through 4.

EDIT: Barajas makes Scherzer pay for a mistake, as he goes deep. 1-0 Buc's.

EDIT2: Walker with a home run, 2-1 Buc's, top of the 6th. 14 of his 18 outs have come by way of the strikeout for Scherzer.

EDIT3: McClouth you gotta call for that ball! Even if you don't catch it. It is too hard for the SS to get, so you call him off and go for it, and see what happens. No, Nate runs to the ball, doesn't call for it, and then stops short of running into Barmes and the ball drops for a bloop double. And then Fielder scores on the ensuing single. Corriea deserved better on that one. Watson comes in, tie game at 2. Corriea can only get the loss.


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05-20-2012, 03:15 PM
  #870
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Brian Giles was something ridiculous from 1999-2002. He averaged something like .310/.430/.610 over those 4 seasons. He was arguably the 2nd best hitter during that time frame other than Bonds. He was also solid defensively and a good baserunner. I still give him the edge over McCutchen until he puts together a couple more great seasons. Giles was without a doubt the best pure hitter the Pirates have had in a long while.

Knowing what we know about the Padres' park, his early seasons with them look really impressive. He had a .298/.414/.490, .284/.374/.475, .301/.423/.483 and a last gasp .306/.398/.456 at age 37 in the best pitchers park in the league. Definitely one of the most underrated players of his generation.

Damn, just noticed Scherzer has 15 K's though 7 IP, could be a potentially 20 K game if he didn't have such a high pitch count. Anyone think McClouth makes it to the end of the month or should they just leave his rotting carcass in Detroit?


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05-20-2012, 03:19 PM
  #871
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Barjas, shades of Doumit defensively. Passed ball moves up both runners. Guys on 2nd and 3rd, Pirates bring in the infield, and batter hits a tailor made DP ball that gets through. 2 runs in. Watson deserved better on that one. Defensive letting Buc's down. 4-2 Tigers.

Next batter Barajas can't handle the ball during attempted steal, doesn't even get off a throw.

EDIT: Jared Hughes continues to impress. Double by Harrison, tying run to the plate top of the 9th. Atta boy Nate, watch that strike 3 to end the game.


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05-20-2012, 05:06 PM
  #872
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I don't think I'd blame Barajas on the passed ball there...there was a meeting on the mound so he told Watson what to throw...and then Watson throws something completely different handcuffing the catcher. A ****ing idiotic move by Watson that essentially cost us the game.

Nate needs to be cut lose. He's just not a Major League player at this point. He's awful enough when he's not ice cold, but 0 for his last 19 now, hasn't hit a home run in nearly a year, and he doesn't do anything well enough to make up for that. His at bat with 2 out in the 9th was just painful to watch. Bat stays on his shoulder on a 2-0 count on a pitch in the perfect location to smash, fouls off a bad pitch for strike two, and just watches a perfect pitch go by him for strike three and walks away emotionless from the plate. Unacceptable.

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05-20-2012, 05:13 PM
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
I say A.J. Burnett because A.J. Burnett is exactly what Cole has always been, a guy with great stuff who is consistently hittable. Roger Clemens damn sure didn't give up a 3.38 ERA in college. He was an extremely successful college player. I just don't see Cole fulfilling this nebulous "potential" you have him rated as having. Despite what you guys say about stats, college stats are still the most reliable predictor of professional success. It's certainly not 100%, but it's the Moneyball way of drafting.

And the reason A.J. Burnett hasn't ever made the All Star game is because he's not that good. He has great stuff but for whatever reason is not as effective as he is talented. He has a career WHIP of 1.33, which doesn't scream All Star to me.



EDIT: To end on a positive note, Andrew McCutchen is an amazing ****ing ballplayer. He hits, he walks, he slugs and he plays gold glove defense in center field. If the Pirates could even find two light-hitting guys who got on base a lot to put in front of him, they'd be contending for the division lead. He's that good. He's pretty much the entire offense for a team that's not far below .500.

I'm pretty sure he's the best ballplayer I've ever seen wearing a Pirates cap, and I saw Bonds in play person, too.
Not quite for me. I saw #21 play and AM is good but not that good!!

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05-20-2012, 06:31 PM
  #874
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Weren't Verlander's stats underwhelming at times in college?

Also, Greg Lloyd telling it like it is.

Quote:
"This is not PBS, it's not the public channel that you go watch. It's the National Football League, it's a violent freaking game," Lloyd told WXIX-TV in Cincinnati.
Quote:
"I don't want to see a game where the damn score is 75 to one or 75 to two, all this passing and passing. I want to see somebody hit a quarterback, ... that is what people come to see. And at the end of the day if he gets hurt, so be it."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ce=twitterfeed

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05-20-2012, 06:33 PM
  #875
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I don't think I'd blame Barajas on the passed ball there...there was a cemeeting on the mound so he told Watson what to throw...and then Watson throws something completely different handcuffing the catcher. A ****ing idiotic move by Watson that essentially cost us the game.

Nate needs to be cut lose. He's just not a Major League player at this point. He's awful enough when he's not ice cold, but 0 for his last 19 now, hasn't hit a home run in nearly a year, and he doesn't do anything well enough to make up for that. His at bat with 2 out in the 9th was just painful to watch. Bat stays on his shoulder on a 2-0 count on a pitch in the perfect location to smash, fouls off a bad pitch for strike two, and just watches a perfect pitch go by him for strike three and walks away emotionless from the plate. Unacceptable.
Very fair comment on Barajas/Watson passed ball situation. I guess seeing that it was a fastball, I still feel Barajas could keep that from getting away. As a opposed to to expecting fastball and getting a breaking pitch. As it did hit him in the chest. But just my take. Your take,that it is on Watson, could very well be the correct one.

As for McClouth, he is all kinds of awful. Yeah, his confidence is either 100% gone, or he doesn't care. (Well, or some combo of that.) The fire appears to be gone. I know baseball is a more cerebral game, but you still need passion. Nate seems to have lost his.


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