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05-20-2012, 04:10 PM
  #51
funghoul
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Last years team was so depleted by injuries, it was a giant joke that there was a major meltdown after they flopped.

Then you had Lavy benching your starting goalie because the league figured the rookie's weakness out.

Should have been no surprise to anyone that we got killed in the 2nd round. We could barely handle Buff which were just as mediocre as we were.
You have officially lost all credibility when talking about anything. your a biased mofo tride and true

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05-20-2012, 04:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post
Not sure if serious. Do you really think Richards and Carter would have made a difference in this series with this defense and who's injured on it?
Not sure if serious? Remember Lukas Krajicek and Ryan Parent? Oskars Bartulis is the closest guy to the NHL.

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05-20-2012, 04:37 PM
  #53
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This years defense in Playoffs

Coburn - Grossman
Timonen - Carle
Lilja - Gus/Bourdon/Mez for 1 game and didn't look ready

2010 defense

Carle - Pronger
Timonen - Coburn
Krajicek - Parent/Bartulis

The third pairing sucks but the top 4 really complement each other and eat up 50 mins of TOI. Plus Chris mother****ing Pronger!


The team defense did take a step back arguably a few. What can the offense do when the D-man keep turning it over tho and can't make a clean breakout? I don't know how many times I watched a Flyers D-man with a stick on the puck sit there until NJ forecheck is in his face to make a play leading to a turnover. Also this defense had IMO it's two best puck moving D-men injured (Kimmo and Carle).

@GKJ So you're telling me if we didn't make those trade this team would have had a chance at the cup with a injured Pronger, Timonen, Carle, and Mez? Because of Richards and Carter?

Also I'm not putting all the blame on the defense. There's plenty of blame to go around and defense is a team game. Bryz would probably be least responsible IMO even with that own goal.

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05-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #54
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Wow, the Kings haven't won anything yet and people are already gearing up to rip Homer for his foolish moves (which were not so foolish about three weeks ago). Going to be a fun offseason...

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05-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post

@GKJ So you're telling me if we didn't make those trade this team would have had a chance at the cup with a injured Pronger, Timonen, Carle, and Mez? Because of Richards and Carter?

Also I'm not putting all the blame on the defense. There's plenty of blame to go around and defense is a team game. Bryz would probably be least responsible IMO even with that own goal.
It's as if no one in this forum thought we were winning the Cup this year regardless. Or don't understand the concept of team defense. You say you do, but by your comments are not demonstrating it.

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05-20-2012, 05:02 PM
  #56
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You have officially lost all credibility when talking about anything. your a biased mofo tride and true
What exactly did he say that's incorrect?

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05-20-2012, 05:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
It's as if no one in this forum thought we were winning the Cup this year regardless. Or don't understand the concept of team defense. You say you do, but by your comments are not demonstrating it.
We never won with that "team defense" that they provided. What makes you think this year would have been different?

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05-20-2012, 05:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
We never won with that "team defense" that they provided. What makes you think this year would have been different?
They were pretty damn close to it. Richards and Carter were great in shutting down Jonathan Toews in the Finals. Those two are gone, and everyone is up in arms about the defense, while some of the other lazy floaters remain because since Briere is 'clutch' and JVR is...whatever he is.

I'm not saying these were bad trades, I'd still do the Columbus trade (them passing Carter on to the Kings has nothing to do with our trade), but this organization is always a win-now team and/or pedalling outrageous expectations, and two guys certain decision makers decided were the problem are (still) 5 wins away from winning right now. We'll never see it in a public forum, but Ed Snider will have a conniption if the Kings win the Cup before the Flyers do.


Last edited by GKJ: 05-20-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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05-20-2012, 05:17 PM
  #59
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My opinion: the trade was necessary. I loved the way Richie played but his off-ice maturity and leadership appeared lacking.
Spot on but add Carter to this. Those two were splitting the locker room and polluting the younger players. Its no accident that Giroux has a go nuts year the minute those two clowns were out of town. G never would have emerged as the player that he has become with those tools on the roster. He has more heart in him than both of those two combined.

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05-20-2012, 05:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
Spot on but add Carter to this. Those two were splitting the locker room and polluting the younger players. Its no accident that Giroux has a go nuts year the minute those two clowns were out of town. G never would have emerged as the player that he has become with those tools on the roster. He has more heart in him than both of those two combined.
You know this, how? And spare me about Giroux, he had a fantastic year the year before so it's not like it was a surprise to anyone that his offensive game would continue to blossom.

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05-20-2012, 05:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
He said this:
Sorry, my bad then, I should've looked at the previous posts, as well.

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05-20-2012, 06:21 PM
  #62
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Last offseason they needed to shake things up. Rumors about the locker room aside, whether or not they were true, this team got younger and IMO better. If everyone on the blueline was healthy, even with Bryz's shaky play, I firmly believe that we'd be watching the Flyers play the Rangers instead of the Devils. Richards and Carter on this team I believe would have led to a similar result as the team in front of us (assuming all the injuries would have still occurred).

You have to figure that if Carter and Richards were still here this team would be VERY different. Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek, Bryzgalov, and Couturier would not be here. Jagr probably wouldn't have been here. Talbot may not have been here. That is at least three players, probably four players, and maybe even four players that the Flyers would have had to replace.

Hartnell-Richards-G
JvR-Carter-Briere
???-???-Read
Rinaldo-???-Wellwood (maybe throw Harry Z out there?)

Do you really think that lineup, even with a couple above average players filling in the blanks is better than the team they put out this season? Who plays in goal? Who fills in those blanks (Versteeg, maybe)? Is there enough cap room at the deadline to get Grossman? I gotta believe that the lineup they put out there this season is better than what they could have pieced together to fill in the blanks. I know Bryz got a big contract, but they would have been even closer to the cap with Richards and Carter on the roster, making it that much more difficult to both sign a goalie, and fill in the blanks in the starting lineup.

For those saying the team would have been better with Richards and Carter, could you maybe list a lineup of the players you think they might have had?

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05-20-2012, 06:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You have to figure that if Carter and Richards were still here this team would be VERY different.
Yeah, that's the thing that a lot of people are missing. Everyone assumes you can just swap the players involved in the trade, but that's a terrible assumption, and something that has a very small chance of actually occurring.

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05-20-2012, 06:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
What exactly did he say that's incorrect?


Some people just can't handle the truth I guess.

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Old
05-20-2012, 06:43 PM
  #65
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If you put it in perspective of how important the players are to the team throughout the year:

When Richards and Carter were at the Flyers last year:

1. Pronger
2. Richards
3. Timonen
4. Briere
5. Carter

This year with the Kings:

1. Quick
2. Brown
3. Kopitar
4. Doughty
5. Richards
6. Williams
7. Carter

And I love Mike Richards!

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Old
05-20-2012, 06:55 PM
  #66
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Yeah, but that's not a knock on Richards, it's just that, apart from Giroux, Kopitar and Brown are just that much better than the forwards we have. I would also question putting Doughty before Richards, but I can live with it

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05-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
If you put it in perspective of how important the players are to the team throughout the year:

When Richards and Carter were at the Flyers last year:

1. Pronger
2. Richards
3. Timonen
4. Briere
5. Carter

This year with the Kings:

1. Quick
2. Brown
3. Kopitar
4. Doughty
5. Richards
6. Williams
7. Carter

And I love Mike Richards!
Giroux led the team in points that season. He was more important than Richards or Carter.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
You know this, how? And spare me about Giroux, he had a fantastic year the year before so it's not like it was a surprise to anyone that his offensive game would continue to blossom.
Why are you still so ******** over the trades?

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
If you put it in perspective of how important the players are to the team throughout the year:

When Richards and Carter were at the Flyers last year:

1. Pronger
2. Richards
3. Timonen
4. Briere
5. Carter

This year with the Kings:

1. Quick
2. Brown
3. Kopitar
4. Doughty
5. Richards
6. Williams
7. Carter

And I love Mike Richards!
I would question putting Briere ahead of Carter on the first list and Brown in front of Kopitar and Richards on the second list.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:30 PM
  #70
MsWoof
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Why are you still so ******** over the trades?
I asked him a question. He acted like he had insider knowledge and I wanted to know where he got his info.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:38 PM
  #71
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Last offseason they needed to shake things up. Rumors about the locker room aside, whether or not they were true, this team got younger and IMO better. If everyone on the blueline was healthy, even with Bryz's shaky play, I firmly believe that we'd be watching the Flyers play the Rangers instead of the Devils. Richards and Carter on this team I believe would have led to a similar result as the team in front of us (assuming all the injuries would have still occurred).

You have to figure that if Carter and Richards were still here this team would be VERY different. Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek, Bryzgalov, and Couturier would not be here. Jagr probably wouldn't have been here. Talbot may not have been here. That is at least three players, probably four players, and maybe even four players that the Flyers would have had to replace.

Hartnell-Richards-G
JvR-Carter-Briere
???-???-Read
Rinaldo-???-Wellwood (maybe throw Harry Z out there?)

Do you really think that lineup, even with a couple above average players filling in the blanks is better than the team they put out this season? Who plays in goal? Who fills in those blanks (Versteeg, maybe)? Is there enough cap room at the deadline to get Grossman? I gotta believe that the lineup they put out there this season is better than what they could have pieced together to fill in the blanks. I know Bryz got a big contract, but they would have been even closer to the cap with Richards and Carter on the roster, making it that much more difficult to both sign a goalie, and fill in the blanks in the starting lineup.

For those saying the team would have been better with Richards and Carter, could you maybe list a lineup of the players you think they might have had?
Well you know they did fill a roster with Carter and Richards here previously. If Bryz, Schenn, Voracek, Jagr, Talbot and Simmonds were replaced with Richards and Carter, we'd have a decent amount of money left. Assuming they signed Bryz, they could have still signed Talbot, but then they'd have to get a little creative to fill out the rest of the roster. They could have done this:

Hartnell-Richards-G
JVR-Carter-Briere
Wellwood-Talbot-Read
Shelley-?-Rinaldo

At that point I think they'd have about 700K to spend. Or maybe they would have had more because I'm looking at Kubina with a $3.8 million cap hit I don't think anybody would miss. Then again he was a deadline acquisition so we didn't take all of that, right? They could have also just traded Carter. Or Hartnell if he'd waive his NTC. And yes, with Richards on this team instead of Schenn/Simmonds, they are better.

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05-20-2012, 07:58 PM
  #72
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Spot on but add Carter to this. Those two were splitting the locker room and polluting the younger players. Its no accident that Giroux has a go nuts year the minute those two clowns were out of town. G never would have emerged as the player that he has become with those tools on the roster. He has more heart in him than both of those two combined.
And you know this how? Did a player or two tell you this; maybe somebody in management, cause if they did, then you sure have a leg up on just about everybody. If I had a dollar for everytime some clown on this board talks about Richards and Carter splitting last year's locker room without a shred of evidence, I could easily retire. And throw in this new one about "polluting the younger players"- how exactly does that happen? And to boot, it wasn't that long ago (the most recent being the 2010 Stanley Cup run) that we all were referring to Richards as the mighty Flyer with heart and the second coming of Bobby Clark. How long will it take to run Claude Giroux out of town- one bad year, one bad play-off, unconfirmed rumours that he's causing a locker room split by fighting with ___________ (add whatever player or coach's name you wish)? Good grief!

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Old
05-20-2012, 08:22 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I asked him a question. He acted like he had insider knowledge and I wanted to know where he got his info.
It just seems like every time this subject comes up you're always looking for some sort of proof that trading Richards and Carter was a mistake.

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Old
05-20-2012, 08:45 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
It just seems like every time this subject comes up you're always looking for some sort of proof that trading Richards and Carter was a mistake.
Look up, I'm not the only one. If someone is going to post supposed insider info, they should back it up.

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Old
05-20-2012, 09:09 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
It just seems like every time this subject comes up you're always looking for some sort of proof that trading Richards and Carter was a mistake.
Richards and Carter are both great players. Its just the team chemistry went down hill once Richards didn't buy into Lavys way of coaching. Then I am sure Pronger helped divide the locker room also. I don't think the team would have been better with Richards and Carter this season but they were clearly the two best players in the trades. Schenn and Couts have potential to break out though. And Voracek is strong on defense, is fast and has great play-making skill.

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