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Gillis will be on Team 1040 today @ 2:30pm

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Old
05-19-2012, 01:28 PM
  #76
Canucker
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
Man, don't even put Kesler in there with AV. Say what you will about his inability to stay out long enough to get healthy, at least Kesler is a warrior. He's had a lot of adversity to fight through.

What is AV's excuse? Does he think he's a complete coach who doesn't need to improve and get better? His supporters on here certainly seem to think so.
What a sorry post. Kesler the noble hero and wounded warrior and AV the village idiot.

I'm not a big AV supporter, I really don't care if they keep him or replace him but this drivel has to stop. He's a good coach, and I'm pretty sure he looks to make improvements about how he coaches...but when you have the level of success that AV has had, how much do you change? You have absolutely ZERO clue what goes on in that room...ZERO. You don't know the relationships he has with the players, the assistant coaches and management. AV was given crap when Nonis was here and he did pretty well with what he had. Enter Gillis who wanted to completely overhaul the style of play to an up tempo, more offense game...AV made the adjustments and we have Art Ross winners, President's Trophies and a trip to the SCF. I can understand not liking him, but the guy has had a winning formula for several years now, he deserves some respect.

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05-19-2012, 01:47 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
What a sorry post. Kesler the noble hero and wounded warrior and AV the village idiot.

I'm not a big AV supporter, I really don't care if they keep him or replace him but this drivel has to stop. He's a good coach, and I'm pretty sure he looks to make improvements about how he coaches...but when you have the level of success that AV has had, how much do you change? You have absolutely ZERO clue what goes on in that room...ZERO. You don't know the relationships he has with the players, the assistant coaches and management. AV was given crap when Nonis was here and he did pretty well with what he had. Enter Gillis who wanted to completely overhaul the style of play to an up tempo, more offense game...AV made the adjustments and we have Art Ross winners, President's Trophies and a trip to the SCF. I can understand not liking him, but the guy has had a winning formula for several years now, he deserves some respect.
For sure, but his inability to make changes during games really started against Boston in the playoffs when we had players sitting out and we kept using the exact same powerplay that doesn't work on teams like Boston.

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05-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #78
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
For sure, but his inability to make changes during games really started against Boston in the playoffs when we had players sitting out and we kept using the exact same powerplay that doesn't work on teams like Boston.
Seems like the PP coach has the problem here. Much like the handling of Ballard (re: Bowness).

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05-19-2012, 03:23 PM
  #79
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For sure, but his inability to make changes during games really started against Boston in the playoffs when we had players sitting out and we kept using the exact same powerplay that doesn't work on teams like Boston.
yeah AV is a good coach.

right now, it's about finding the right guy who can put the canucks over the top. i don't think it's about finding a coach who has a better winning percentage than av (but still reasonable), but finding someone who can ADD to what av has taught.

imo, av has gotten the most out of this group. there needs to be someone else to win the 16th post-season game.

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05-19-2012, 03:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
For sure, but his inability to make changes during games really started against Boston in the playoffs when we had players sitting out and we kept using the exact same powerplay that doesn't work on teams like Boston.
There are definitely some baffling decisions he's made and I've often facepalmed them and vented about them here, but overall he's done a very good job. He deserves as much blame, and credit, for this team's successes and failures over his tenure here as anyone else within the entire organization.

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05-19-2012, 09:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
What a sorry post. Kesler the noble hero and wounded warrior and AV the village idiot.

I'm not a big AV supporter, I really don't care if they keep him or replace him but this drivel has to stop. He's a good coach, and I'm pretty sure he looks to make improvements about how he coaches...but when you have the level of success that AV has had, how much do you change? You have absolutely ZERO clue what goes on in that room...ZERO. You don't know the relationships he has with the players, the assistant coaches and management. AV was given crap when Nonis was here and he did pretty well with what he had. Enter Gillis who wanted to completely overhaul the style of play to an up tempo, more offense game...AV made the adjustments and we have Art Ross winners, President's Trophies and a trip to the SCF. I can understand not liking him, but the guy has had a winning formula for several years now, he deserves some respect.
So he's perfect then? He can't improve? He can't do things better? I've given him tons of credit for his accomplishments in my other posts.

Why do you have to assume I am on one extreme or the other? Calling my opinion names doesn't make you any more correct. You also have no idea what is happening in the room, and you are no more qualified than any of the rest of us.

I look at other coaches and other teams I have seen and played for, and I make my assessment of his performance. I'm totally fine with your disagreement but I'd appreciate it if you refrain from calling my posts 'sorry' and 'drivel'.

It's a fact that Kesler has had to endure injuries that have hampered his performance. We expect Kesler to produce and be a leader. I don't see anything wrong with holding AV to the same standard, and he has no injuries or familial problems to use as excuses.

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05-19-2012, 09:37 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Seems like the PP coach has the problem here. Much like the handling of Ballard (re: Bowness).
I don't buy this line of reasoning.

AV is the head coach, Brown and Bowness answer to him. If AV wanted something changed (Ballard given more minutes or a different look to the PP) he can tell his two assistants to try something different. And since a lot of those issues stagnated for so long, I think it makes sense to conclude that AV supported the decisions of his assistants.

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05-20-2012, 12:49 AM
  #83
Canucker
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
So he's perfect then? He can't improve? He can't do things better? I've given him tons of credit for his accomplishments in my other posts.

Why do you have to assume I am on one extreme or the other? Calling my opinion names doesn't make you any more correct. You also have no idea what is happening in the room, and you are no more qualified than any of the rest of us.

I look at other coaches and other teams I have seen and played for, and I make my assessment of his performance. I'm totally fine with your disagreement but I'd appreciate it if you refrain from calling my posts 'sorry' and 'drivel'.

It's a fact that Kesler has had to endure injuries that have hampered his performance. We expect Kesler to produce and be a leader. I don't see anything wrong with holding AV to the same standard, and he has no injuries or familial problems to use as excuses.
Sorry, I call it like I see it. If an opinion looks like drivel to me, I'm going to call it drivel. You can choose to take it personal or simply as a criticism, up to you.

You don't see holding AV to the same standard as Kesler despite having a completely different place and role in the organization makes absolutely no sense? You expect Kesler to "be a leader and produce" and expect the same of AV? I guess old Bam-Bam better lace em up again because he's having a tough time producing from behind the bench, but I doubt he'd even go 17 games without a goal. AV's job isn't to wave pom-poms or "produce" goals, it's to make a gameplan that produces wins...therefore, he produces, just in a different way.

And where did I ever say AV was perfect? Where did I say I even liked the guy? The fact is you scoffed at the idea that people could turn on Kesler so quickly but not AV. Making Kesler out to be some wounded hero and AV some guy with a learning disability. Also, I'm not making any claims to know what AV is doing behind closed doors, but I think its pretty flawed to believe that he's sitting there with his thumb up his ass thinking "Well...I'm as good as it gets now...no more learning for me!".

Now, I don't want to rag too much on Kesler. The guy has heart, but he's also got a 2 cent brain. He neither showed "leadership" or "production" down the stretch. If he were injured to such a degree, real leadership would be sitting out to heal up or taking on a minimized role...not trying to do more than humanly possible and dragging the rest of the team down with him.

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Old
05-20-2012, 01:22 AM
  #84
Huntershin Karuk
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It's not that Kesler's stupid, because he's not. It's just that his damn ego wouldn't let him take the time off to heal, as if he was thinking, "****, they're not going to be able to win without me! I need to hurry back!" The guy just needs to eat a slice of humble pie, accept his shortcomings re: injuries and move on.

As for Vigneault...I hope McLellan becomes available. That is all.

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05-20-2012, 02:00 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
You expect Kesler to "be a leader and produce" and expect the same of AV? I guess old Bam-Bam better lace em up again because he's having a tough time producing from behind the bench, but I doubt he'd even go 17 games without a goal. AV's job isn't to wave pom-poms or "produce" goals, it's to make a gameplan that produces wins...therefore, he produces, just in a different way.
speaking of drivel...

since you're having a hard time understanding the comparison, what mossey is saying is that if you don't make excuses for kesler's performance you shouldn't make excuses for vigneault. pretty simple really. bringing in the lace 'em up crap makes you look a little slow imo.

AV's job is to prepare the team for the opponents they face, and to put players in a position to succeed. it's also his job to manage the emotions of the team. if you think he's done a great job of that this past year and in the first round then good for you i guess. some of us think he has a lot to answer for.

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05-20-2012, 05:59 AM
  #86
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How awesome would it be if MG some how managed to convince Bowman to come out of retirement to coach the Canucks. I already think MG is a genius for the most part, but if he got Bowman, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.
Can't see it with stan being in Chicago.

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05-20-2012, 07:10 AM
  #87
Canucker
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speaking of drivel...

since you're having a hard time understanding the comparison, what mossey is saying is that if you don't make excuses for kesler's performance you shouldn't make excuses for vigneault. pretty simple really. bringing in the lace 'em up crap makes you look a little slow imo.

AV's job is to prepare the team for the opponents they face, and to put players in a position to succeed. it's also his job to manage the emotions of the team. if you think he's done a great job of that this past year and in the first round then good for you i guess. some of us think he has a lot to answer for.
It's a ridiculous comparison to make in the first place.

Perhaps you should read back a little further, I said AV deserves as much credit as blame for how this season went. Or does he just deserve the blame in your eyes? AV may have a lot to "answer for" but he doesn't owe those answers to you or me, he owes them to his employers. I'm not trying to paint him as some infallible coach who is above criticism, because he's anything but....however he doesn't get enough credit for the team's successes, only blame for the failures.

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05-20-2012, 08:37 AM
  #88
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Can't see it with stan being in Chicago.
That and he is pushing 80.

Really Scotty Bowan?!? Take it Toe Blake and Punch Imlach weren't available.

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05-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #89
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As for Vigneault...I hope McLellan becomes available. That is all.
Guess you missed the part where San Jose has already announced McLellan will be back next season?

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05-20-2012, 10:54 AM
  #90
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Since the season ended, the HF fanbase seems split betwen keeping AV versus letting him go. I have been of the opinion that, after doing their due diligence, that Gillis will bring AV back. For me, the reasons are pretty straightforward and oft repeated: best record we've ever had as coach, Presidents Trophies, SCF appearance, Divisional Titles, lack of a bona fide replacement (MacT...puhlease), etc.

But I would advocate firing Bowness. I do not like the way the D has been handled for the last few years. The Ballard situation still baffles me. He is certainly no longer worth his cap hit and moving him will be a salary dump, but the guy played some pretty good minutes in Fla and Phoenix and then suddenly the guy can no longer play, getting regularly replaced by notables such as Rome and Alberts.

And, for some strange reason, the successful shut down pairing of Juice and Hammy was split up the last half the season and suddenly the scoring dries up and the Canucks cruise into the post season looking like they were mailing it in night after night.

We are all aware that decision making from the coaching level is a team effort and AV certainly bears responsibility for this type of decision making, but I have to think that the conversation between Gillis and AV is going to include lots of discussions around AV's assistants and, IMO, Bowness is the most vulnerable.

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05-20-2012, 07:41 PM
  #91
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I've been advocating Bowness be let go too, but I think it'd also be helpful to see some stats (scoring chances for and against). Pretty sure we were outchanced a lot against LAK, but what about the regular season + playoffs, and same for the previous year?

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05-20-2012, 08:27 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
For sure, but his inability to make changes during games really started against Boston in the playoffs when we had players sitting out and we kept using the exact same powerplay that doesn't work on teams like Boston.
Ehrhoff, Kesler, Samuelsson and Henrik injured to start that series and then Edler later. The PP dead just from those first 4. A different configution would be what, one build around what players style? Burrows, Daniel, Malhotra, Bieksa and Hamhuis? No wait, Malhotra and Hamhuis were injured too.

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05-20-2012, 08:35 PM
  #93
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by SDK View Post
It's not that Kesler's stupid, because he's not. It's just that his damn ego wouldn't let him take the time off to heal, as if he was thinking, "****, they're not going to be able to win without me! I need to hurry back!" The guy just needs to eat a slice of humble pie, accept his shortcomings re: injuries and move on.
Problem wasn't that he was playing injured - *all* players with heart will play injured (Ohlund did that for years as a Canuck). It becomes a deteriment when injured player continues to play as if he was 100% healthy (which isn't humanly possible). *That* was Kesler's problem last season. Play within your limitations (eg., don't try and do it all - use your linemates more in these situations).


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