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Old
05-20-2012, 08:46 PM
  #26
sporrer17
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I still think Pirri and Beach can be pretty valuable assets (as bottom 6 guys), especially for a team that is in need of being able to plug a few cheap & effective players in because of a top heavy roster. Ellerby isn't a bad addition, but not really that interested in Santorelli.

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05-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I'll make the Frolik/Salak for Skille/spare parts trade again any day of the week. I'd also dump Campbell to Florida again, even with knowing how badly we missed him at times this season.

Dale's loyalty to "his guys" has and will continue to do him in. Tell me how Florida looks in 3 years with all those awful contracts he gave out/took on.
For Campbell Bowman should've at least tried to get something worth it going back, not a completely useless Olesz. And Bowman only traded him cuz his whole worth as a GM is only seen in getting Leddy so he wants to showcase as his own personal trophy everywhere he can.

Frolik trade is one that neither team won. The guy on their NHL team got injured and the guy on our NHL team only played in the playoffs cuz a rookie got suspended.

And if you mean by "will do him in" as in winning the Stanley Cup, I'll take that instead of 2 consecutive first round exits.

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05-20-2012, 10:10 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by EdgeR44 View Post
For Campbell Bowman should've at least tried to get something worth it going back, not a completely useless Olesz. And Bowman only traded him cuz his whole worth as a GM is only seen in getting Leddy so he wants to showcase as his own personal trophy everywhere he can.

Frolik trade is one that neither team won. The guy on their NHL team got injured and the guy on our NHL team only played in the playoffs cuz a rookie got suspended.

And if you mean by "will do him in" as in winning the Stanley Cup, I'll take that instead of 2 consecutive first round exits.
Bowman had chance to dump 35M in a bad contract ,, Taking Olesz back was great

As he is buried and of no signifcance ,, Rocky probably did backflips dumping that god awful Campbell deal

And the fact that Hawks got a guy in Frolik who has at least had his moments of good is a win

Jack Skille is one of the worst players in NHL

And Hawks won cup with Bowman at helm not Tallon ,, If Tallon was at helm he probably has Skille in lineup , Keeps Barker and has Havlat over Hossa

Hawks likely go out in early round on a bad defensive mistake by Skille or Barker (Both Tallon guys)

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05-20-2012, 10:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bowman had chance to dump 35M in a bad contract ,, Taking Olesz back was great

As he is buried and of no signifcance ,, Rocky probably did backflips dumping that god awful Campbell deal

And the fact that Hawks got a guy in Frolik who has at least had his moments of good is a win

Jack Skille is one of the worst players in NHL

And Hawks won cup with Bowman at helm not Tallon ,, If Tallon was at helm he probably has Skille in lineup , Keeps Barker and has Havlat over Hossa

Hawks likely go out in early round on a bad defensive mistake by Skille or Barker (Both Tallon guys)
That was a completely different deal...

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05-21-2012, 05:45 AM
  #30
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so far, Tallon hasn't won a trade with us... Frolik was the better end for us, Campbell is a win/win situation

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05-21-2012, 06:58 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bowman had chance to dump 35M in a bad contract ,, Taking Olesz back was great

As he is buried and of no signifcance ,, Rocky probably did backflips dumping that god awful Campbell deal

And the fact that Hawks got a guy in Frolik who has at least had his moments of good is a win

Jack Skille is one of the worst players in NHL

And Hawks won cup with Bowman at helm not Tallon ,, If Tallon was at helm he probably has Skille in lineup , Keeps Barker and has Havlat over Hossa

Hawks likely go out in early round on a bad defensive mistake by Skille or Barker (Both Tallon guys)
I can't believe you had the gall to credit Bowman for anything for that cup.

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05-21-2012, 11:12 AM
  #32
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I can't believe you had the gall to credit Bowman for anything for that cup.
Lets see

Bowman kept Niemi over Crawford after camp (Even though many felt Crawford won the #2 job with his play)

Traded away the waste of a roster spot that was Cam Barker thus preventing him from draging down the Hawks ,, Boynton was solid in games 4-6 of the Finals (GOtta credit him with that)

And it was Bowman that had to manage the cap situation which was dire (Remember the Rockford shuttle system)

Also I am a beleive that Tallon had already lost the power struggle as the guys he wanted to re-sign (Pahlsson and Havlat) ended up not being retained instead guys like Hossa/Kopecky who were Bowman guys (Scotty) were brought in

It was also Bowman that decided not to acquire a goalie and go with Niemi for playoffs ,, Remember TSN and everyone (Our board included) bashing him for that

I would say sticking with Niemi and not bringing in a vet deadline guy (We all wanted Roloson remember) was a pretty big defining event for cup team

Who knows what happens if we have Roloson in net

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05-21-2012, 12:03 PM
  #33
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And how exactly has he not been impressive in Rockford? Being Hogs best player at 20 yrs old isn't impressive?

Did you even watch the Hogs to make that assumption or are you just going off stats?

He wasnt.

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05-21-2012, 12:11 PM
  #34
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For Campbell Bowman should've at least tried to get something worth it going back, not a completely useless Olesz. And Bowman only traded him cuz his whole worth as a GM is only seen in getting Leddy so he wants to showcase as his own personal trophy everywhere he can.

Frolik trade is one that neither team won. The guy on their NHL team got injured and the guy on our NHL team only played in the playoffs cuz a rookie got suspended.

And if you mean by "will do him in" as in winning the Stanley Cup, I'll take that instead of 2 consecutive first round exits.
Campbell played a huge part in the Cup winning team. He is a difference maker who made Hammer look like a million bucks, something Leddy cant or will never do, he doesnt have the talent.

Its funny how Tallon took Campbell again and gave the Hawks nothing in return, a complete fleecing. Tallon is laughing considering he has a contract that helps his team reach the cap floor and he made his old team worse off. Cap space means very little when nothing was done with it. Leddy was rushed to the NHL since he was being man handled in the A, a mans league, and has a little bit more rules in the NHL. He still routinely gets knocked off the puck and is a turn over machine, horrible in his own end. Campbell contract made him so under rated the only team thats happy are the Panthers since they see what he brings each and every game.

Froliks trash, and so was Skille, its a wash.

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05-21-2012, 12:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by EdgeR44 View Post
For Campbell Bowman should've at least tried to get something worth it going back, not a completely useless Olesz. And Bowman only traded him cuz his whole worth as a GM is only seen in getting Leddy so he wants to showcase as his own personal trophy everywhere he can.
Exactly, classic Bowman, "Look at me, look at me, look at what I did, I'm the only one who knows what they are doing with this organization! The players and the coaches are underperforming and making me look bad."

And right on about the cap space, you don't spend it, it means absolutely nothing. So far the Campbell trade is a major fail, but the potential to turn it into a great trade still exists, but with each passing season of not spending the space, it looks worse and worse unless you are Rocky writing the checks and who gives a damn about that man's finances after what his family put us through.

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05-21-2012, 12:25 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Lets see

Bowman kept Niemi over Crawford after camp (Even though many felt Crawford won the #2 job with his play)

Traded away the waste of a roster spot that was Cam Barker thus preventing him from draging down the Hawks ,, Boynton was solid in games 4-6 of the Finals (GOtta credit him with that)

And it was Bowman that had to manage the cap situation which was dire (Remember the Rockford shuttle system)

Also I am a beleive that Tallon had already lost the power struggle as the guys he wanted to re-sign (Pahlsson and Havlat) ended up not being retained instead guys like Hossa/Kopecky who were Bowman guys (Scotty) were brought in

It was also Bowman that decided not to acquire a goalie and go with Niemi for playoffs ,, Remember TSN and everyone (Our board included) bashing him for that

I would say sticking with Niemi and not bringing in a vet deadline guy (We all wanted Roloson remember) was a pretty big defining event for cup team

Who knows what happens if we have Roloson in net
1) We've all heard this story before. Niemi got the start because of a game in Finland and then played well. Crawford also could be sent down without fear of losing him, Niemi couldn't.

2) You may be right about the power struggle. But I would counter that it happened in Tallon's time anyway (remember you're quick to absolve Tallon of credit for things that happened before he was GM, even though he was a member of the organization). Also I don't think having Havlat instead of Hossa costs the Hawks the cup at all.

3) Cam Barker's game had deteriorated to the point where I'm sure any GM would have dumped him at that point. Bowman made a nice trade for Leddy, but it's a future trade that didn't impact the cup.

4. The Niemi gamble worked out 2 years ago...just like the Crawford gamble backfired this year. I recall Vokoun being the guy most wanted. This was just before I joined HF though. Niemi was undoubtedly great in the San Jose series...we'll never know if the Hawks get past that series without him. He was ridiculous, especially in games 1 & 2 in San Jose.

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05-21-2012, 12:34 PM
  #37
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Havlat's playoff performance in 09 was better than Hossa's the year we won the cup.

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05-21-2012, 12:51 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Lets see

Bowman kept Niemi over Crawford after camp (Even though many felt Crawford won the #2 job with his play)

Traded away the waste of a roster spot that was Cam Barker thus preventing him from draging down the Hawks ,, Boynton was solid in games 4-6 of the Finals (GOtta credit him with that)

And it was Bowman that had to manage the cap situation which was dire (Remember the Rockford shuttle system)

Also I am a beleive that Tallon had already lost the power struggle as the guys he wanted to re-sign (Pahlsson and Havlat) ended up not being retained instead guys like Hossa/Kopecky who were Bowman guys (Scotty) were brought in

It was also Bowman that decided not to acquire a goalie and go with Niemi for playoffs ,, Remember TSN and everyone (Our board included) bashing him for that

I would say sticking with Niemi and not bringing in a vet deadline guy (We all wanted Roloson remember) was a pretty big defining event for cup team

Who knows what happens if we have Roloson in net
Crawford did earn that number 2 spot that year. He was sent down because his cap hit was easier, and he would not hit rentery. Crawford would have likely won the cup for us that year too, since Niemi was nothing special when he wasn't playing San Jose.

Also trading Barker for nothing was a wash. We would have won the cup with or without Barker.

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05-21-2012, 01:28 PM
  #39
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My biggest issue with Bowman is that he falls in love hard for every move he makes. He's never admitted nor fixed a mistake that he has made. He keeps saying everything he did is so great and that everything is there to contend for the Cup if people stop underachieving. He needs to start being more realistic and objective or we cannot move forward.

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05-21-2012, 01:44 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I would say sticking with Niemi and not bringing in a vet deadline guy (We all wanted Roloson remember) was a pretty big defining event for cup team

Who knows what happens if we have Roloson in net
We wanted Vokoun
we almost ended with getting him. That deal was close to be done.

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05-21-2012, 03:04 PM
  #41
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Why would we have picked up Vokoun? I remember hearing some rumors and all but he had another year left on his deal and a hefty pay rate. It would have made the offseason cap problems even worse.

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05-22-2012, 12:39 AM
  #42
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thats why Bowman hasn't pulled the trigger.
We wanted Vokoun and we were close to get him. Some already thought that Vokoun to CHI was done...

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05-22-2012, 01:07 AM
  #43
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My biggest issue with Bowman is that he falls in love hard for every move he makes. He's never admitted nor fixed a mistake that he has made. He keeps saying everything he did is so great and that everything is there to contend for the Cup if people stop underachieving. He needs to start being more realistic and objective or we cannot move forward.
What "mistakes" should he own up to? Everyone on this board wanted Stalberg traded last summer.. what does Bowman do? Nothing. Then, Stalberg comes in this year and scores 20 goals. I'm not the biggest fan of Stalberg, but his season certainly helped justify the only "poor" trade Bowman made in 2010, with a gun to his head.

It's not a "mistake" that he couldn't land anyone of significance at the trade deadline.. and no one on this board knows what the Hawks were trying to do throughout the first half of the season and at the TD to get impactful players.

I guess you could say moving Campbell was a mistake, but if the Hawks land one of Suter or Parise.. or aquire someone through a trade that they wouldn't have been able to land if they still had Campbell then I'm sure most would sing a different tune.

Players did underperform this year. Coaching was all over the place and yes, Bowman didn't get anyone to significantly improve the team.. but the point of moving Campbell wasn't to get cap space to acquire the first available big-ticket player that's available, it was to have the option to acquire/sign someone to improve your team if it makes sense now and going forward.

Bowman's had 1 summer/season with money to spend and while he didn't sign anyone that made a significant impact in that stretch, he also didn't cripple the Hawks cap situation. Crawford and Frolik are the "worst" and both only have 2 years remaining on their contracts and neither are badly overpaid at 2.66M and 2.33M respectively.

He has to be given more time to show what he can get accomplished.


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05-22-2012, 01:16 AM
  #44
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What "mistakes" should he own up to? Everyone on this board wanted Stalberg traded last summer.. what does Bowman do? Nothing. Then, Stalberg comes in this year and scores 20 goals. I'm not the biggest fan of Stalberg, but his season certainly helped justify the only "poor" trade Bowman made in 2010, with a gun to his head.

It's not a "mistake" that he couldn't land anyone of significance at the trade deadline.. and no one on this board knows what the Hawks were trying to do throughout the first half of the season and at the TD to get impactful players.

I guess you could say moving Campbell was a mistake, but if the Hawks land one of Suter or Parise.. or aquire someone through a trade that they wouldn't have been able to land if they still had Campbell then I'm sure most would sing a different tune.

Players did underperform this year. Coaching was all over the place and yes, Bowman didn't get anyone to significantly improve the team.. but the point of moving Campbell wasn't to get cap space to aquire the first available big-ticket player that's available, it was to have the option to aquire/sign someone to improve your team if it makes sense now and going forward.

Bowman's had 1 summer/season with money to spend and while he didn't sign anyone that made a significant impact in that stretch, he also didn't cripple the Hawks cap situation. Crawford and Frolik are the "worst" and both only have 2 years remaining on their contracts and neither are badly overpaid at 2.66M and 2.33M respectively.

He has to be given more time to show what he can get accomplished.
Although I'm not a big fan of his and still wonder how he got the job in the first place, you do make some solid points.

Would you agree that if the Hawks are one and done again next year that he needs to go?

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05-22-2012, 01:17 AM
  #45
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Campbell played a huge part in the Cup winning team. He is a difference maker who made Hammer look like a million bucks, something Leddy cant or will never do, he doesnt have the talent.

Its funny how Tallon took Campbell again and gave the Hawks nothing in return, a complete fleecing. Tallon is laughing considering he has a contract that helps his team reach the cap floor and he made his old team worse off. Cap space means very little when nothing was done with it. Leddy was rushed to the NHL since he was being man handled in the A, a mans league, and has a little bit more rules in the NHL. He still routinely gets knocked off the puck and is a turn over machine, horrible in his own end. Campbell contract made him so under rated the only team thats happy are the Panthers since they see what he brings each and every game.

Froliks trash, and so was Skille, its a wash.
I don't know how any prospect can properly develope in such a violent league. There should be a rule in place to keep any player under 6'1" and 190lbs out of the AHL, "a mans league", for their own safety. Leaving Leddy in the AHL would have been reckless.. he praaaabably would have died.

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05-22-2012, 01:23 AM
  #46
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Although I'm not a big fan of his and still wonder how he got the job in the first place, you do make some solid points.

Would you agree that if the Hawks are one and done again next year that he needs to go?
It all depends. If Bowman can keep the "core" relatively intact and bring in a guy like Ryan Suter and the team fails to go deep into the playoffs, then I would look at Q/Kitchen to go before Bowman. However, if higher-quality players aren't brought in this off-season/throughout the season and Chicago gets bounced early in the playoff again next season then yes, Bowman should be on the hot seat.

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05-22-2012, 01:58 AM
  #47
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It all depends. If Bowman can keep the "core" relatively intact and bring in a guy like Ryan Suter and the team fails to go deep into the playoffs, then I would look at Q/Kitchen to go before Bowman. However, if higher-quality players aren't brought in this off-season/throughout the season and Chicago gets bounced early in the playoff again next season then yes, Bowman should be on the hot seat.
I agree, Though if it's as little as signing Suter and then trading Hammer for a pick...then I think he would still be leaving some things unfinished. The Hawks need #2 center and probably need to find a way of working some grit in to the team (but not just on 4th liners or 7th defensemen like was done last summer).

It should be an interesting summer. I expect he will make some bigger moves than we might expect. The Hawks don't want that buzz to go away.

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05-22-2012, 02:11 AM
  #48
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I agree, Though if it's as little as signing Suter and then trading Hammer for a pick...then I think he would still be leaving some things unfinished. The Hawks need #2 center and probably need to find a way of working some grit in to the team (but not just on 4th liners or 7th defensemen like was done last summer).

It should be an interesting summer. I expect he will make some bigger moves than we might expect. The Hawks don't want that buzz to go away.
if Q lets Hammer play the way he wants though, he can be a far better D man then just making him stay back and block shots. He played out of his mind in the World Championships.

(and to anybody bringing up the big ice, big ice helps forwards, it's a LOT harder playing defense on it though.)

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05-22-2012, 05:46 AM
  #49
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Although I'm not a big fan of his and still wonder how he got the job in the first place, you do make some solid points.

Would you agree that if the Hawks are one and done again next year that he needs to go?
no, that would be too early.

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05-22-2012, 08:37 AM
  #50
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However, if higher-quality players aren't brought in this off-season/throughout the season and Chicago gets bounced early in the playoff again next season then yes, Bowman should be on the hot seat.
Bowman should be walking down Madison street with a box full of his **** with the fans as they leave the UC after another disaster of a season. Hot seat? No, just no, we'd be the Mickey Mouse franchise of the NHL if we simply put him on the hot seat after such a debacle. It would be clear he is a moron, doesn't know what he is doing, is ruining the franchise and risking chasing Kane and Toews away as UFAs because they wouldn't want to play for an also ran anymore.

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