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overpaying for players bad idea?

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Old
05-21-2012, 01:30 PM
  #1
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overpaying for players bad idea?

this isnt about bryz, this is about other players on this team that get overpaid and dont play right like jvr, coburn, mez, harts, briere, pronger, richards, carter, all these players that get overpaid dont play right either, they probably just like playing for the money rather than winning a cup, i know everyone wants suter or zach p but how do you know that they want a cup rather than about the money? most cup winning teams dont have overpaid players because they care about winning a cup and not about the money.

as much as we need defense and a winger i would trade to get defense and winger/center give that person a year or two before that player wants more money, give them the money and trade them to get better players because they play for money not winning for a championship.

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05-21-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
this isnt about bryz, this is about other players on this team that get overpaid and dont play right like jvr, coburn, mez, harts, briere, pronger, richards, carter, all these players that get overpaid dont play right either, they probably just like playing for the money rather than winning a cup, i know everyone wants suter or zach p but how do you know that they want a cup rather than about the money? most cup winning teams dont have overpaid players because they care about winning a cup and not about the money.

as much as we need defense and a winger i would trade to get defense and winger/center give that person a year or two before that player wants more money, give them the money and trade them to get better players because they play for money not winning for a championship.
lolwat.

You're saying that Pronger, Briere, Coburn are overpaid players because they care about money instead of winning?

Do you watch hockey?

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05-21-2012, 01:48 PM
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Depends what each person sees as "overpaid." I think the values for Coburn and JvR are pretty good. Who's to say that most people won't think Suter and Parise aren't overpaid by the start of next season? Payment all depends on the market; how much cap space teams have, overall cap ceilings, and how much similar players get paid. Last season was terrible for the future of the market, players like Leino and Wiz getting a truckload of money.

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05-21-2012, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
this isnt about bryz, this is about other players on this team that get overpaid and dont play right like jvr, coburn, mez, harts, briere, pronger, richards, carter, all these players that get overpaid dont play right either, they probably just like playing for the money rather than winning a cup, i know everyone wants suter or zach p but how do you know that they want a cup rather than about the money? most cup winning teams dont have overpaid players because they care about winning a cup and not about the money.
Haha, yeah right. It's funny how people still believe in this clear distinction between a player wanting the Cup vs. a player wanting money. Don't kid yourself, every NHL player wants both, although to varying degrees. They still do do this for a living. Plus, it's only a source of motivation, so even if one player is fueled by that extra $0.5 mio. on his contract instead of the glory of the Cup (or some similar nonsense), that doesn't mean they will perform worse. Plus, players can't predict the future, so when they sign with a team, they can't know whether they're going to win the Cup anyway. That doesn't mean some teams don't have better outlooks in the near future, but the "road to the Cup" isn't linear, so, say, signing a hefty contract with Columbus isn't necessarily the wrong choice for a player to make.

So yeah, you just pulled that "most cup winning teams dont have overpaid players because they care about winning a cup and not about the money" out of your ass, didn't you?

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05-21-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Haha, yeah right. It's funny how people still believe in this clear distinction between a player wanting the Cup vs. a player wanting money. Don't kid yourself, every NHL player wants both, although to varying degrees. They still do do this for a living. Plus, it's only a source of motivation, so even if one player is fueled by that extra $0.5 mio. on his contract instead of the glory of the Cup (or some similar nonsense), that doesn't mean they will perform worse. Plus, players can't predict the future, so when they sign with a team, they can't know whether they're going to win the Cup anyway. That doesn't mean some teams don't have better outlooks in the near future, but the "road to the Cup" isn't linear, so, say, signing a hefty contract with Columbus isn't necessarily the wrong choice for a player to make.

So yeah, you just pulled that "most cup winning teams dont have overpaid players because they care about winning a cup and not about the money" out of your ass, didn't you?
doesnt matter, it's what i believe. believe whatever you want.

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05-21-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
lolwat.

You're saying that Pronger, Briere, Coburn are overpaid players because they care about money instead of winning?

Do you watch hockey?
yeah i do since i was 12, what's your deal? your love for players?

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05-21-2012, 02:14 PM
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Well, I'm glad we at least established that you don't have grounds for your beliefs and that you're just sticking to whatever feels more comfortable at the moment to believe in. At least argue why you think your statements are even true, and start putting yourself in a position of not only a fan, but also a GM and player, when making sweeping statements like that.

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05-21-2012, 02:21 PM
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Of course overpaying is a bad thing. More overpaid players means less talent overall.

Let's say Briere is overpaid by $2M. $2M may not seem like much, but that could be the difference between a Zach Parise or a Ville Leino. Now if you have multiple overpaid players the gap becomes even wider.

The Flyers are a very good team, but they could be even better without some of the overpaid contracts.

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05-21-2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
doesnt matter, it's what i believe. believe whatever you want.
If players wanted money over a Cup, they'd be flocking to play in the KHL.

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05-21-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
If players wanted money over a Cup, they'd be flocking to play in the KHL.
No they wouldn't. There is more money in the NHL.

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05-21-2012, 02:26 PM
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I hate when you pay for potenial, like we did with JVR.

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05-21-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I hate when you pay for potenial, like we did with JVR.
I'm not against it, but I think it didn't make sense considering our cap situation. We are in win now mode so a smaller contract for JVR now helps us afford more talent. I think he'll be worth his contract, but I didn't see the rush in locking him up.

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05-21-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I hate when you pay for potenial, like we did with JVR.
And for Giroux also. Sometimes it turns out to be a steal and sometimes not. JVR when healthy will be a great player.

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05-21-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
this isnt about bryz, this is about other players on this team that get overpaid and dont play right like jvr, coburn, mez, harts, briere, pronger, richards, carter, all these players that get overpaid dont play right either, they probably just like playing for the money rather than winning a cup, i know everyone wants suter or zach p but how do you know that they want a cup rather than about the money? most cup winning teams dont have overpaid players because they care about winning a cup and not about the money.

as much as we need defense and a winger i would trade to get defense and winger/center give that person a year or two before that player wants more money, give them the money and trade them to get better players because they play for money not winning for a championship.
Most of those players aren't overpaid and Richards/Carter took a huge pay-cut to play on the Flyers for their whole career.

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05-21-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
No they wouldn't. There is more money in the NHL.
Not for the highest paid players though. Even though the salaries may be less, there are far less taxes over there. However, the quality of life form what I understand is way below that of an NHLer. I remember some article about Ray Emery about how everyone had to sleep on a cot in a gym the night before every game or something like that. Unless you're from Russia or Eastern Europe, I doubt you are flocking to the KHL.

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05-21-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Not for the highest paid players though. Even though the salaries may be less, there are far less taxes over there. However, the quality of life form what I understand is way below that of an NHLer. I remember some article about Ray Emery about how everyone had to sleep on a cot in a gym the night before every game or something like that. Unless you're from Russia or Eastern Europe, I doubt you are flocking to the KHL.
The KHL doesn't generate any near as much revenue as the NHL hence the substandard quality of life. They have some crazy owners with deep pockets that are willing to lose money to lure some Russian players, but they could not afford NHL payrolls without bleeding money. If you are an elite talent there is much more money to be made in the NHL with the larger payrolls and without the fear of your paychecks stopping at any point. There's also the potential for endorsements and as you point out the quality of life is much better.

If the KHL was truly on par with the NHL then I'd imagine you'd see more talent flock there, but it's not.

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05-21-2012, 02:51 PM
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And for Giroux also. Sometimes it turns out to be a steal and sometimes not. JVR when healthy will be a great player.
Not entirely true. We have Giroux his contract midway through his 70+ point season (I might be wrong, but I think he even had more points than JVR's current highest). All I know is, we will be paying 4-500k more for JVR than Giroux. Thats crazy to think about it. But this isnt a JVR thread, so I wont go into how I disagree on you're last sentence. I dont think he is going to be anything amazing like some thing.

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05-21-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
The KHL doesn't generate any near as much revenue as the NHL hence the substandard quality of life. They have some crazy owners with deep pockets that are willing to lose money to lure some Russian players, but they could not afford NHL payrolls without bleeding money. If you are an elite talent there is much more money to be made in the NHL with the larger payrolls and without the fear of your paychecks stopping at any point. There's also the potential for endorsements and as you point out the quality of life is much better.

If the KHL was truly on par with the NHL then I'd imagine you'd see more talent flock there, but it's not.
Yeah that's true. Didn't factor in the financial stability of the teams over there.

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05-21-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
this is about other players on this team that get overpaid and dont play right like jvr, coburn, mez, harts, briere, pronger, richards, carter, all these players that get overpaid dont play right either
Coburn, Harts, Pronger, Richards, and Carter are not overpaid. JVR will be overpaid next year if he doesn't finally emerge. Mez is a slight overpayment and Briere..well.. an argument can be made for paying for playoff performance, but I'm not a fan of it.

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they probably just like playing for the money rather than winning a cup
Pure speculation about these players and probably simply false based on the culture. It's hard to make it to the NHL level without being a person with a serious compete level. Some players do make it to the NHL despite that, but usually because their talent is absurd enough to mask their laziness. It's a brutal team-first sport that wrecks your body. Most people don't have the DNA for it. Weird that you'd say it about guys like Richards and Pronger. Richards has only ever been successful at every level and a "captain." Same with Pronger. The type of guys you want leading a team, not money first guys. Richards took a hair of a discount to stay here.

... and in studies regarding jobs "money" is usually farther down the list than "personal achievement." It's a bit hard to find someone who is "only after money" and would survive in the NHL by stealing the money and taking every shift off.

I will, however, grant you Scott Gomez. I kid.

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05-21-2012, 03:56 PM
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has any overpaid player ever won a stanley cup? boston, chicago, Detroit, pittsburgh, anaheim, carolina, tampa, new jersey etc, i dont remember any of those teams with huge contracts and years, most of them had 2 or 3 year deals, flyers are always giving over 5 year deals if i remember correctly.

im just saying if sutter and zach p wants alot of years and money, i would pass and make a trade.

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05-21-2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
has any overpaid player ever won a stanley cup? boston, chicago, Detroit, pittsburgh, anaheim, carolina, tampa, new jersey etc, i dont remember any of those teams with huge contracts and years, most of them had 2 or 3 year deals, flyers are always giving over 5 year deals if i remember correctly.
Chara is on a huge long term deal in Boston.
Hossa has a huge contact until 2021 for 5.2.
Sharp has a big 5 year deal.
Towes has a 4 year 6.3 per deal.
Duncan Keith has a huge deal until 2023... you wouldn't want him?

You can go through and find all those teams you listed with big contracts both before and after Cup victories.

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im just saying if sutter and zach p wants alot of years and money, i would pass and make a trade.
Gotcha.

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05-21-2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
has any overpaid player ever won a stanley cup? boston, chicago, Detroit, pittsburgh, anaheim, carolina, tampa, new jersey etc, i dont remember any of those teams with huge contracts and years, most of them had 2 or 3 year deals, flyers are always giving over 5 year deals if i remember correctly.

im just saying if sutter and zach p wants alot of years and money, i would pass and make a trade.
Brian Campbell, 7.1 million.
Tomas Kaberle 4 million
Christobel Huet 5 million

Do you want me to carry on?

If JVR hits 45 points next season, then his contract is market value, Briere has been money in the post season, Coburn is below market value. Get a grip man

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05-21-2012, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Brian Campbell, 7.1 million.
Tomas Kaberle 4 million
Christobel Huet 5 million

Do you want me to carry on?

If JVR hits 45 points next season, then his contract is market value, Briere has been money in the post season, Coburn is below market value. Get a grip man
what's your problem anyway?


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05-21-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
has any overpaid player ever won a stanley cup? boston, chicago, Detroit, pittsburgh, anaheim, carolina, tampa, new jersey etc, i dont remember any of those teams with huge contracts and years, most of them had 2 or 3 year deals, flyers are always giving over 5 year deals if i remember correctly.

im just saying if sutter and zach p wants alot of years and money, i would pass and make a trade.
A lot of those cup winning teams had FA going into thier cup winning season. They got paid. You're argument is more of to build a team with your cheap rookies.

And I hate on briere a lot but that guy wants to win a cup like no other. Pronger lead ours and edm and the ducks over achieving teams to te finals. Jvr was hurt forever. When he gets back he is atleast going to hit 50 and that's fine for his contract.

I'm not familiar enough with suter but praise wants to win. Id be very happy to sign him.

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05-21-2012, 08:06 PM
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Its about making the team better overall. It's not like we would be signing a couple of scrubs. IF we are able to bring in both guys for 7+ years...whats the problem. Both all-star caliber.

If we do bring them on, we have to clear salary...and we will. Mez is valuable, JVR is valuable...we can get more assets back to stock our young talent.

There are alot of ifs at this point...

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