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Old
05-20-2012, 05:52 PM
  #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Weren't Verlander's stats underwhelming at times in college?

Also, Greg Lloyd telling it like it is.





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05-20-2012, 05:53 PM
  #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Weren't Verlander's stats underwhelming at times in college?

Also, Greg Lloyd telling it like it is.





http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ce=twitterfeed

gets me so pumped for football season.

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Old
05-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Weren't Verlander's stats underwhelming at times in college?


Not really, but his draft year was his weakest season. He had something like an 2.10 era his first 2 years combined, then had one in the 3's in his draft year, which was strange since he k'd like 150 guys in 100 IP. He did have 20 wild pitches that year after not having that many combined the previous 2 years, probably just a case of draftitis.

For comparison sake, Cole had a 3.39 college era, Verlander's was 2.57. Verlander had 427 k's in 335 ip, Cole had 376 in 322. Verlander only spent 1 (partial) season in the minors even though he didn't sign and play during his draft year. He pretty much killed the competition to the tune of a 1.29 era over 120 IP that year, got called up to Detroit for about a dozen innings and never looked back.

Also, Stephen Strasburg is hitting .375/.412/.750 this year. small sample size and all but still


Last edited by Sivek: 05-20-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
05-20-2012, 06:47 PM
  #879
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"Tim Alderson finishes his second start: 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K. Only threw 60 pitches, 44 for strikes."


Also: he had an inning where he threw only 3 pitches and the other team had a hit... went Out, Hit, Double play. Thats pretty funny.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:12 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
They're just talking about guys they've seen live.

McCutchen wins this one in a cake walk for me.

I started watching baseball in 1993 (or at least consciously so). **** me.
McCutcheon is not even close. He may be when he is done, but he has not done anything close to what the following players have done for the Pirates. Except for Clemente the rest come from 1979 forward.

Off the top of my head:

Batters
1. Clemente
2. Stargell
3. Parker
4. Bonds
5. Bonilla
6. Van Slyke
7. Brian Giles
8. Kendall
9. Phil Garner
10. Omar Moreno
11. Bill Madlock
12. Al Oliver
13. Mike Easler
14. Jason Bay
15. Tony Pena
16. Jeff King

Pitchers
1. Doug Drabek
2. Bert Blyleven
3. John Candelaria
4. Bruce Kison
5. Kent Tekulve
6. Jim Bibby
7. John Smiley
8. Jerry Reuss
9. Zane Smith
10. Bob Walk


All have done more as Pirates than Cutch to this point.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:17 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by tijuana knuckles View Post
McCutcheon is not even close. He may be when he is done, but he has not done anything close to what the following players have done for the Pirates. Except for Clemente the rest come from 1979 forward.

Off the top of my head:

Batters
1. Clemente
2. Stargell
3. Parker
4. Bonds
5. Bonilla
6. Van Slyke
7. Brian Giles
8. Kendall
9. Phil Garner
10. Omar Moreno
11. Bill Madlock
12. Al Oliver
13. Mike Easler
14. Jason Bay
15. Tony Pena
16. Jeff King

Pitchers
1. Doug Drabek
2. Bert Blyleven
3. John Candelaria
4. Bruce Kison
5. Kent Tekulve
6. Jim Bibby
7. John Smiley
8. Jerry Reuss
9. Zane Smith
10. Bob Walk


All have done more as Pirates than Cutch to this point.
ok but few have done more than "McCutcheon" by age 25 and been able to do things with such little support. You're watching a special player in the making and if you don't realize that then I am assuming you're of the "those were the days" group.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:22 PM
  #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijuana knuckles View Post
McCutcheon is not even close. He may be when he is done, but he has not done anything close to what the following players have done for the Pirates. Except for Clemente the rest come from 1979 forward.

Off the top of my head:

Batters
1. Clemente
2. Stargell
3. Parker
4. Bonds
5. Bonilla
6. Van Slyke
7. Brian Giles
8. Kendall
9. Phil Garner
10. Omar Moreno
11. Bill Madlock
12. Al Oliver
13. Mike Easler
14. Jason Bay
15. Tony Pena
16. Jeff King

Pitchers
1. Doug Drabek
2. Bert Blyleven
3. John Candelaria
4. Bruce Kison
5. Kent Tekulve
6. Jim Bibby
7. John Smiley
8. Jerry Reuss
9. Zane Smith
10. Bob Walk


All have done more as Pirates than Cutch to this point.
Stargell was nearly done with his career after the 79 world series. I would consider him before the "after 1979" group.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:46 PM
  #883
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Mark Schlereth's rant after that Harrison fine was pretty awesome. He was completely disgusted.

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Old
05-20-2012, 07:51 PM
  #884
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Max Scherzer? Really?

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Old
05-20-2012, 08:08 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
gets me so pumped for football season.
Only Roger Goodell can make Steelers fans agree with Ray Lewis.

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Old
05-20-2012, 08:48 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Illinest View Post
At least a few scouts disagree with the assessment of hansen needing to move off SS, and the ones who've voiced concerns usually cite his arm rather than range or build.
He does have a lot of errors though.

Bauer could be 20 game winner every season and it still wouldnt mean that it was wrong to draft Cole. You draft according to what the player could or should be. You dont have the benefit of hindsight to say that 'cole will fall short of projections in all these ways and bauer will exceed projections in all these other ways.'
Yeah, as the biggest Pirates basher on the boards here even I give them a pass on this one. The took the consensus top player. It was not that long ago that they took a second rounder with that pick who was signable. It is progress. If Cole turns into the second best pitcher in the draft that still is progress too. Honestly I doubt that this management can even tie their shoes without help, but on this issue they deserve a pass.

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05-20-2012, 09:42 PM
  #887
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Only Roger Goodell can make Steelers fans agree with Ray Lewis.
i love Ray Lewis. Every team in the league would have been lucky to have him.

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Old
05-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #888
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I was looking through last season's Pirates roster, remembering how bad Diaz and Overbay were, and how much of a ball and chain they were to the offense every time they took an AB.

Their OBP's for us last season would rank 3rd and 4th respectively on this year's team. 3rd and 4th. For salt into the wound, they're both actually playing well this season.

And yet, we're only a small winning streak from being above .500. And with the Cardinals seemingly forgetting how to play recently, the division is still right there.


Last edited by clefty: 05-20-2012 at 11:57 PM.
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Old
05-20-2012, 11:37 PM
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijuana knuckles View Post
McCutcheon is not even close. He may be when he is done, but he has not done anything close to what the following players have done for the Pirates. Except for Clemente the rest come from 1979 forward.

Off the top of my head:

Batters
1. Clemente
2. Stargell
3. Parker
4. Bonds
5. Bonilla
6. Van Slyke
7. Brian Giles
8. Kendall
9. Phil Garner
10. Omar Moreno
11. Bill Madlock
12. Al Oliver
13. Mike Easler
14. Jason Bay
15. Tony Pena
16. Jeff King

Pitchers
1. Doug Drabek
2. Bert Blyleven
3. John Candelaria
4. Bruce Kison
5. Kent Tekulve
6. Jim Bibby
7. John Smiley
8. Jerry Reuss
9. Zane Smith
10. Bob Walk


All have done more as Pirates than Cutch to this point.
You are saying Zane Smith did more as a Pirate than Cutch? I've heard everything now.

Let me guess, Rafael Belliard probably has too. What about Spanky?

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05-21-2012, 12:10 AM
  #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
You are saying Zane Smith did more as a Pirate than Cutch? I've heard everything now.

Let me guess, Rafael Belliard probably has too. What about Spanky?
there are so many names an that list that are head scratchers that its not even worth getting in to.

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Old
05-21-2012, 07:38 AM
  #891
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Brian Giles was something ridiculous from 1999-2002. He averaged something like .310/.430/.610 over those 4 seasons. He was arguably the 2nd best hitter during that time frame other than Bonds. He was also solid defensively and a good baserunner. I still give him the edge over McCutchen until he puts together a couple more great seasons. Giles was without a doubt the best pure hitter the Pirates have had in a long while.

Knowing what we know about the Padres' park, his early seasons with them look really impressive. He had a .298/.414/.490, .284/.374/.475, .301/.423/.483 and a last gasp .306/.398/.456 at age 37 in the best pitchers park in the league. Definitely one of the most underrated players of his generation.

Damn, just noticed Scherzer has 15 K's though 7 IP, could be a potentially 20 K game if he didn't have such a high pitch count. Anyone think McClouth makes it to the end of the month or should they just leave his rotting carcass in Detroit?
I liked Giles as well. I've always assumed he was roided up though, his forearms weren't human.

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Old
05-21-2012, 01:40 PM
  #892
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I liked Giles as well. I've always assumed he was roided up though, his forearms weren't human.
His eyes were always dilated and bloodshot too...scary lookin dude.

He was awesome though, I remember his running up the wall catch was web gem of the year.

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05-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #893
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His eyes always freaked me out. It always looked like they were just black dots on uninterrupted skin.

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05-21-2012, 02:34 PM
  #894
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Yuck. This guy's mock has the Pirates reaching for a 'second round talent' because they do not want another arm and all the best bats are off the table by pick number 8:

7. San Diego Padres Devin Marrero Shortstop, Arizona State Devin Marrero has the defensive skill set at shortstop that MLB scouts will covet. From a defensive aspect, Marrero reminds me of a young Derek Jeter in many ways. Along with a very consistent batting average, Marrero has the speed and gunslinger arm to create single plays or double plays when presented with defensive opportunities to end innings.

After Buxton, Zunino, Carrea, and Marrero there is a significant drop off in batters. There are other quality bats. These four batters are the cream of the crop in the 2012 MLB Draft.

8. Pittsburgh Pirates Trey Williams Third Baseman, Valencia High School California The Pittsburgh Pirates have a tough decision to make. Reach for a bat that could be a second-round talent or stockpile their roster with more pitching prospects.

Consider the fact that the Pirates have one of the leagues better ERAs along with 13 of their top 20 farm prospects being pitchers you have to believe obtaining a bat is the bigger priority in Pittsburgh.

Andrew McCutchen is the only current player on the Pirates’ roster with a batting average above .300 at the moment. The Pirates need more bats in their system. 2011 second round pick Josh Bell and 2011 third round pick Alex Dickerson could help out. The problem is both prospects will be up in 2015 at the very earliest.

Trey Williams is the son of Eddie Williams, who was a part of the 1997 Pirates roster. Williams has the versatility to play anywhere in the infield or the outfield just like his father. Williams seems like a player that the Pirates could be really high on come June.

In 2010-2011, Williams had a batting average of .345, a .446 on base percentage, and a .762 slugging percentage. So far in 2011-2012, Williams has a .381 batting average, a .581 on base percentage, and a .714 slugging percentage.

Williams has been consistent at the high school level. The Pirates can use this pick to develop Williams in their farm system. If Pedro Alvarez does not blossom in the next two seasons, then the Pirates can summon Williams to be his eventual replacement at third base or they can plug him into a shortstop role.


http://www.rantsports.com/mock-draft...lb-mock-draft/

The scary thing is that reaching for a second round talent near the top of the draft is a tune we have heard the Pirates play far too often, though admittedly they have been blameworthy in that regard the past few drafts. But it brings back some very bad memories, and more importantly, the Pirates could concievably do this if the draft falls this way. If this does play out this way, I hope that the Pirates exceed my expectations and go for the pitcher. It is not like pitching can not be traded for bats.

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05-21-2012, 02:37 PM
  #895
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Why not just pick the best player available? If it's a pitcher then so be it.

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05-21-2012, 02:40 PM
  #896
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Some random mock draft on a place called "Rant Sports" doesn't exactly give you a hint to the mind of the Pirates.

Huntington has gone with a BPA strategy with the draft thus far (outside of the Sanchez pick, which helped that draft be filled with bonus babies because it was their belief that no one in that draft on the board was worth the $4.5 million asking price), why should he stop now?

edit: And that place thinks way too highly of Marrero for me to take seriously. Marrero, bat, and cream of the crop do not belong so close to each other. Glove? Absolutely...bat, no.

And seriously...you don't draft for need when you're looking at a 4 year development process. That's the dumbest thing imaginable. Remember when everyone was freaking out that we didn't have a single second baseman in the system? One position change by a perceived bust and we're set there for the foreseeable future.


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05-21-2012, 02:44 PM
  #897
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I agree with both Jaded Fan and Eyes of Orpik. Just draft the player that you have rated the highest on your draft board. First of all, the Pirates have so many holes that too many starting pitchers would not be a problem in my opinion. Plus trades can occur. Also, the logic of the 2011 draftees not arriving until 2015 makes me believe that the 2012 draft pick would not arrive until 2016 so what is the hurry in drafting position players? The logic is lost on me. We say it time and again around drafts. Go with the highest rated player on your board, not a position need. You can find room for good players.

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05-21-2012, 03:29 PM
  #898
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I agree with both Jaded Fan and Eyes of Orpik. Just draft the player that you have rated the highest on your draft board. First of all, the Pirates have so many holes that too many starting pitchers would not be a problem in my opinion. Plus trades can occur. Also, the logic of the 2011 draftees not arriving until 2015 makes me believe that the 2012 draft pick would not arrive until 2016 so what is the hurry in drafting position players? The logic is lost on me. We say it time and again around drafts. Go with the highest rated player on your board, not a position need. You can find room for good players.
Agreed. These bats won't even be in the MLB for a few years to help the Pirates. Take the BPA.

I'd take a few more years of Xavier Nady type pickups and trading a pitcher for a young bat if we can eventually get our **** together.

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05-21-2012, 03:35 PM
  #899
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Agreed. These bats won't even be in the MLB for a few years to help the Pirates. Take the BPA.

I'd take a few more years of Xavier Nady type pickups and trading a pitcher for a young bat if we can eventually get our **** together.
yeah but if we don't take some hitters soon, we're going to keep running into the problem we have no for many many more years. Our problem is not just having an impact hitter ready to play but having any hitters ready to play. Even if theyre not top talent, its important to fill your minor leagues with serviceable hitters if nothing else, for call-ups sake. If you look at winning ball clubs, they always have some players in AAA knocking on the door. We just need a few of those guys to apply some pressure. We hopefully got our impact hitter of the future last year, in Bell. We are really dying for "quantity" not just quality.

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05-21-2012, 03:43 PM
  #900
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