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Old
05-21-2012, 03:57 PM
  #901
Jules Winnfield
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
yeah but if we don't take some hitters soon, we're going to keep running into the problem we have no for many many more years. Our problem is not just having an impact hitter ready to play but having any hitters ready to play. Even if theyre not top talent, its important to fill your minor leagues with serviceable hitters if nothing else, for call-ups sake. If you look at winning ball clubs, they always have some players in AAA knocking on the door. We just need a few of those guys to apply some pressure. We hopefully got our impact hitter of the future last year, in Bell. We are really dying for "quantity" not just quality.
I don't disagree with you at all but I don't think we should be reaching for talent either.

Unfortunately, the solution for the Pirates is they need to spend $ on a FA or take on someone else's player salary if they want to get a legit MLB bat right now. Really, other than a premium on Hanrahan to someone like the Yankees, what do the Pirates have to offer for a bat?

What kills me with the Pirates every year is they will spend millions on multiple low level FAs instead of getting one or two players who will make an impact. It kinda reminds me of Craig Patrick's reclamation projects with rolling the dice and hoping these guys will be adequate.

I know he's not doing that well right now but why not at least try to get Marte in the MLB lineup? Unless they are showcasing Gorkys for some reason...

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05-21-2012, 04:04 PM
  #902
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I know he's not doing that well right now but why not at least try to get Marte in the MLB lineup? Unless they are showcasing Gorkys for some reason...
Because it would completely **** up his development? Marte isn't close to being Major League ready yet. There's no chance he's in Pittsburgh before September.

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05-21-2012, 04:19 PM
  #903
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Those players have to want to come here.....right now, they don't.

Case in point, Derek lee would rather sit out than get paid 7 mil to play here. That's telling IMO.

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05-21-2012, 04:28 PM
  #904
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Those players have to want to come here.....right now, they don't.

Case in point, Derek lee would rather sit out than get paid 7 mil to play here. That's telling IMO.
It is a chicken egg thing. Players will not come here as long as the ownership is seen as not doing the things necessary to compete, Which primarily includes salary, but also includes building a team that has some talent already.

The long and short of it is that baseball as a sport sucks balls as currently structured. But that said, you do not need to have a Yankee size payroll to compete and be respectable. But a payroll similar to comparable markets, the Reds, the Brewers, Cleveland, etc. Yeah, right now you will have trouble attracting players, but does anyone think that the Pirates even are seriously trying? Every vibe that they send out screams that the Nuttings are pocketing the money and have no intention to do anything but pocket the money. Unless they can start acting serious about doing what it takes to field a respectable team, I do not see the cycle ever ending. It may take a season or two to convince players of the fact that the Nuttings mean it this time, but so far they have shown no inclination to do so.

This team still will lose 90 plus games, mark my words. This is not a 90 loss team presently, despite the hitting woes. But Bedard, Burnett, Correia and Hanrahan all will be gone within a little more than a month. Maybe more. Just like last year they might not win one game in every five after that. As related to the first part of my post above, that sends a message too. The Pirates always start with a low payroll, but end up only paying under a $20 million payroll for the second half of the year as they jettison half or more of the payroll. It lines the Nuttings pockets even more, but what kind of message does that send to players who might consider coming here?


Last edited by Jaded-Fan: 05-21-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old
05-21-2012, 04:51 PM
  #905
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Is anyone surprised by the way Nutting uses the team to print money? Dude's a newspaperman. I'm sure he loses money hand over fist at his day job.

MLB should have forced him to sell to Burkle and Lemieux. Burkle's in groceries. As long as people need to eat, Burkle will have money to spend on his teams. They should have let Mark Cuban buy the team but no...their idiot commissioner can own a team, the biggest divorce couple in the history of money can own a team, and a moron who invested all his money with Bernie Madoff can own a team...but Mark Cuban isn't good enough to be in their little club club.

Yesterday, the Pirates traded for a guy named Drew Sutton, a switch-hitter who can play all the infield positions with some fairly encouraging returns. .258/.322/.403 and a .724 OPS over three seasons of sporadic major league play. His OPS has gone up each of his three years in the majors. Best of all, in 112 innings as a major league shortstop, he's been an above-average fielder. Sure, he's not Derek Jeter, but he could be a potential solution to the Clint Barmes problem, and they got him for cash considerations.

Then, in a baffling move, they traded him to Tampa for a player to be named later.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...uttodr01.shtml

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201....ap/index.html

Do they not think Clint Barmes is a problem? WTF? I'm seriously almost done with this team.

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05-21-2012, 04:58 PM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Is anyone surprised by the way Nutting uses the team to print money? Dude's a newspaperman. I'm sure he loses money hand over fist at his day job.

MLB should have forced him to sell to Burkle and Lemieux. Burkle's in groceries. As long as people need to eat, Burkle will have money to spend on his teams. They should have let Mark Cuban buy the team but no...their idiot commissioner can own a team, the biggest divorce couple in the history of money can own a team, and a moron who invested all his money with Bernie Madoff can own a team...but Mark Cuban isn't good enough to be in their little club club.

Yesterday, the Pirates traded for a guy named Drew Sutton, a switch-hitter who can play all the infield positions with some fairly encouraging returns. .258/.322/.403 and a .724 OPS over three seasons of sporadic major league play. His OPS has gone up each of his three years in the majors. Best of all, in 112 innings as a major league shortstop, he's been an above-average fielder. Sure, he's not Derek Jeter, but he could be a potential solution to the Clint Barmes problem, and they got him for cash considerations.

Then, in a baffling move, they traded him to Tampa for a player to be named later.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...uttodr01.shtml

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201....ap/index.html

Do they not think Clint Barmes is a problem? WTF? I'm seriously almost done with this team.
Mostly crappy newspapers and magazines too. Take a look at this list:

http://www.mediaowners.com/company/ogden.html

When your crown jewels include Gas Engine Magazine and Steam Traction Magazine, and the Gasparilla Gazette, it says something.

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05-21-2012, 05:03 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Is anyone surprised by the way Nutting uses the team to print money? Dude's a newspaperman. I'm sure he loses money hand over fist at his day job.

MLB should have forced him to sell to Burkle and Lemieux. Burkle's in groceries. As long as people need to eat, Burkle will have money to spend on his teams. They should have let Mark Cuban buy the team but no...their idiot commissioner can own a team, the biggest divorce couple in the history of money can own a team, and a moron who invested all his money with Bernie Madoff can own a team...but Mark Cuban isn't good enough to be in their little club club.

Yesterday, the Pirates traded for a guy named Drew Sutton, a switch-hitter who can play all the infield positions with some fairly encouraging returns. .258/.322/.403 and a .724 OPS over three seasons of sporadic major league play. His OPS has gone up each of his three years in the majors. Best of all, in 112 innings as a major league shortstop, he's been an above-average fielder. Sure, he's not Derek Jeter, but he could be a potential solution to the Clint Barmes problem, and they got him for cash considerations.

Then, in a baffling move, they traded him to Tampa for a player to be named later.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...uttodr01.shtml

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201....ap/index.html

Do they not think Clint Barmes is a problem? WTF? I'm seriously almost done with this team.
Simply a stunning set of transactions. Probably acquired him for 10K, traded him to TB for 20K and will pocket the difference. Barmes is making people yearn for the halcyon days of Pat Mears...and he's signed for another year. Just a terrible move at the time that looks even worse now. Why give a mediocre, old SS a multi-year deal? Barajas's agent ****ed up and probably could of talked his way into a two-year deal, probably kicking himself over it.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:07 PM
  #908
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Yeah, Sivek. It sucks. Every team signs a dud free agent once in a while. When that happens, standard procedure for a small-market team is to get an older, blocked prospect or their favorite AAA player for cheap. Which is what the Pirates did. Then they gave him away for nothing.



Nutting owns five newspapers in Hawaii. If I owned five newspapers in Hawaii, I'd use it as an excuse to live in Hawaii.

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05-21-2012, 05:44 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Yeah, Sivek. It sucks. Every team signs a dud free agent once in a while. When that happens, standard procedure for a small-market team is to get an older, blocked prospect or their favorite AAA player for cheap. Which is what the Pirates did. Then they gave him away for nothing.



Nutting owns five newspapers in Hawaii. If I owned five newspapers in Hawaii, I'd use it as an excuse to live in Hawaii.
Judging from the comments regarding his paper on that link I provided, he runs newspapers about as well as he runs the Pirates. The comments were mostly pissed at him.

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05-21-2012, 06:24 PM
  #910
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Alvarez hitting .109 from the 4th slot.

Coincidentally Cutch's hot streak/homer tear began when Pedro started hitting behind him.

EDIT: Met's put up a 4 spot. This game is basically over, and it is just the 2nd inning.

EDIT2: Harrison lead off double, followed by a McCutchen double. Cutch 2 for 2 so far. 4-1 Met's.

EDIT3: Pedro hits 3rd consecutive double of the inning. 4-2 now, no out. Walker tries to bunt for a basehit, but pops it up, almost gets Pedro doubled up.


Last edited by td_ice: 05-21-2012 at 07:20 PM.
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05-21-2012, 07:20 PM
  #911
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Doubles in triplicate. Nice. And then a pop-up bunt...ugh.


As for Nutting's business holdings...he owns a whole bunch of nothing and runs them horrifically. No one can doubt he's been using the Pirates as a way to balance the books for his other miserable holdings. Even the one semi-attractive thing he owns, Seven Springs, has been bleeding money horribly ever since he got control of it.

The thing that's more concerning about him using the team as his piggy bank is that he's in a position to do so. It just goes to show how bad of a position Kevin McClatchy was in that he could be bought out by a family who's business holdings haven't been relevant in the real world for a good 60 years. The market for small-town newspapers has been non-existent for a long time now.


edit: **** off, McKenry. That is literally the one thing you can't do in that situation.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 05-21-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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05-21-2012, 07:24 PM
  #912
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Bases loaded. Come on Buc's make me eat crow for saying the game was over.

Need a hit here to tie it up.

And in true Pirate fashion, we hit into an inning ending double play.....ugh.

EDIT: Haha, that Cutch commercial is very well done.

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05-21-2012, 07:30 PM
  #913
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The one complaint I have about MLB.tv is that it blacks out the commercials. I'd much rather get bombarded by local commercials that aren't relevant to me than just sheer silence.

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05-21-2012, 07:35 PM
  #914
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Welcome to the bigs Gorkys!! Makes mlb debut, hitting for Bedard. (oh well, first AB is a K, but a special night for him)

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05-21-2012, 07:44 PM
  #915
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Thank god Resop just struch out Cedeno, because I had already thrown up in my mouth that he was 2-2. If he would have gone 3- ****ing 3 I probably would have projectile vomited all over my laptop.

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05-21-2012, 08:00 PM
  #916
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(picture from the Mets road trip to Toronto this past weekend)

Despite that I still hate Cedeno's guts.

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05-21-2012, 08:20 PM
  #917
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McKenry!

That makes up for the double play ball earlier.

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05-21-2012, 08:42 PM
  #918
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Nice play Pedro!

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05-21-2012, 08:44 PM
  #919
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What a ****ing beautiful play. First with the leather and then the laser arm.

His glove may be average at absolute best, but that arm of his is truly something to behold.


And, of course, a wild pitch so the runner gets to 3rd anyway.

edit: Strikeout! 2 outs.
e2: Bottom of the 8th we go, still tied.
e3: Pirates-esque idiocy in the outfield with the center fielder calling for the ball, the right fielder doesn't give way causing the lead-off man Walker getting to third. A lead-off three base error in a 4-4 game in the 8th...ouchies. About time one of those go our way.


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05-21-2012, 08:55 PM
  #920
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3 base error!! Walker at 3rd, gotta bring him in!

EDIT: Weak ass fly ball by Barmes, but it gets Walker home!! 5-4 Buc's!!!

Watching that replay, I dunno, I would have to see it again, but it looked
like Walker was out. What do you guys think??

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05-21-2012, 09:00 PM
  #921
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Questionable for sure, he might have been out, it was close though.

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05-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #922
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That was as close of a play at the plate as you can get...very glad I'm not an umpire when stuff like that happens.

He was safe, for the record. Great eyes by umpire Laz Diaz as the initial swipe just barely missed Walker's left knee as his right foot comes past to hit the plate before getting tagged. Perfect slide by Walker, perfect call by Diaz.

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05-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Questionable for sure, he might have been out, it was close though.
From the one angle, it looked like he got tagged on the thigh just a sec before his foot hits home. But like you said, it was close.

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05-21-2012, 09:04 PM
  #924
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That was as close of a play at the plate as you can get...very glad I'm not an umpire when stuff like that happens.

He was safe, for the record. Great eyes by umpire Laz Diaz as the initial swipe just barely missed Walker's left knee as his right foot comes past to hit the plate before getting tagged. Perfect slide by Walker, perfect call by Diaz.
Cool! Yeah I admit the umps, for the most part, do a great job on those bang bang plays.

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05-21-2012, 09:08 PM
  #925
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For as much flack as umpires get, and there are a couple real bad ones out there (one of which actually was recently suspended...how often does that happen?)...but MLB umpires, generally, do the best job of any major officials. The problem is that when they get a call wrong the price to pay is often far more damning than with the other sports...see the Jerry Meals situation last year.

Hell of a throw by Barmes to get the 2nd out.


edit: Raise the Jolly Roger!

Okay, I lied earlier. Another thing I hate about mlb.tv is that the lag is so much worse than the others. Thanks to one of my web pages being on gameday so I could see who the umpires were I got the replay of the final strikeout before the 2nd pitch of the at bat was shown on my TV.


e2: Nice to see Hughes finally get a win for his troubles. He pitches dangerously, but it's pretty hard to complain about a rookie relief pitcher who's allowed 2 runs in 22.2 innings.

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