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Old
05-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Darche is the kind of 4th liner you win with. Dependable, works hard and can play a role(PK) plus can chip in a few goals if given more ice time.

If you mean both Diaz and Weber in the top 6 I agree, but I think having Diaz at #6 and Weber at #7 is a good thing. #5 Emelin #6 Diaz #7 Weber
I think 4th liners on winning teams need to be able to bring something interesting to the table. They need to be fast, aggressive, up-tempo players. Darche won't really hurt the team, but he's just that- he's a mediocre player. Not physical, not quick, not aggressive, nothing that sets him apart. He has zero negative impact and zero positive impact. I guess that makes him an okay stop-gap player, but I think there are players who are as "safe" as Darche who are able to play a bit more physically and more helpful to create "team toughness".

Darche is like settling for a mediocre girl who is polite and plain because you were too afraid to ask the more beautiful girl on a date.

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05-21-2012, 01:51 PM
  #227
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And now that I've ripped Darche here are some UFA's in the same price range that I'd rather have... they add more spark to the team in my opinion, more energy, less of that soft image that the Habs as a team need to shake.. a lot of that starts with their bottom 6... You've got Moen (hopefully) and White. Eller and Leblanc add skill and mike a nice duo on the third line. Then you have players like Geoffrion and Blunden who, like Darche.. straddle that line between "useful" and mediocore... Staubitz seems likeable and maybe you have him as a 14th forward on league minimum...

They need to do what Gauthier tried when he went after Blair Betts last year, Halpern the year before, Moore the year before, etc... that veteran fourth line faceoff centreman.

Jay McClement is a good example of this player. Cheap, effective UFA. He would be perfect. He would be my UFA target for the fourth line.

Other interesting UFAs on a budget.. Ryan Stoa on Colorado (former NCAA player, good skills and size.. typical Habs style young player that Timmins loves) if you want to take a gamble on a player who would be a pleasant surprise. Continue on, Kostopolous is a vet in the mold of Darche and same price range who I think has more of an edge to his game, Tootoo or Asham would bring the crazy and add instant dimension to the bottom six, Prust too (would be perfect but will probably be too expensive and re-sign with NYR though)...

Basically what I;m saying is.. re-make the image of the bottom six, and add another guy like Zubrus (hes not a UFA.. but that style of player) who can play anywhere on your top three lines, play both ways, veteran experience.. sort of the middle ground between a Cole and a Bourque.

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05-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
And now that I've ripped Darche here are some UFA's in the same price range that I'd rather have... they add more spark to the team in my opinion, more energy, less of that soft image that the Habs as a team need to shake.. a lot of that starts with their bottom 6... You've got Moen (hopefully) and White. Eller and Leblanc add skill and mike a nice duo on the third line. Then you have players like Geoffrion and Blunden who, like Darche.. straddle that line between "useful" and mediocore... Staubitz seems likeable and maybe you have him as a 14th forward on league minimum...

They need to do what Gauthier tried when he went after Blair Betts last year, Halpern the year before, Moore the year before, etc... that veteran fourth line faceoff centreman.

Jay McClement is a good example of this player. Cheap, effective UFA. He would be perfect. He would be my UFA target for the fourth line.

Other interesting UFAs on a budget.. Ryan Stoa on Colorado (former NCAA player, good skills and size.. typical Habs style young player that Timmins loves) if you want to take a gamble on a player who would be a pleasant surprise. Continue on, Kostopolous is a vet in the mold of Darche and same price range who I think has more of an edge to his game, Tootoo or Asham would bring the crazy and add instant dimension to the bottom six, Prust too (would be perfect but will probably be too expensive and re-sign with NYR though)...

Basically what I;m saying is.. re-make the image of the bottom six, and add another guy like Zubrus (hes not a UFA.. but that style of player) who can play anywhere on your top three lines, play both ways, veteran experience.. sort of the middle ground between a Cole and a Bourque.
What's your definition of cheap for that kind of a player? And I doubt he'll leave Colorado to play on a 4th line somewhere else without some serious overpayment.

As for Stoa, hell no. Don't get fooled by his size the guy is as soft as they come and at this point in time he's a borderline top 6 player in the AHL. To think that Colorado drafted him before Stastny is mind boggling.

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05-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
What's your definition of cheap for that kind of a player? And I doubt he'll leave Colorado to play on a 4th line somewhere else without some serious overpayment.

As for Stoa, hell no. Don't get fooled by his size the guy is as soft as they come and at this point in time he's a borderline top 6 player in the AHL. To think that Colorado drafted him before Stastny is mind boggling.
Why did Travis Moen want to leave California... I dont see why we couldnt pry McClement away on a 1.5 a year deal. It seems to be a common trend in the NHL right now to let guys who are basically kids step into role-player positions.. I think you still need the veteran players to hold down these places on a team. McClement is also never injured and very durable. An intelligent and dependable player sort of like a younger Halpern. And because I anticipate the Habs returning to the postseason next year, these are the types of players you need. Rather see Bergevin sign them in the offseason than make like Gauthier and sacrifice 2nd or 3rd round picks at the deadline every year. And if the team busts like they did this season, they are the type of player you move at the deadline for picks... its a win-win situation. We have the budget to sign them, and if your luck sucks and the team falls apart... ok, fine... we paid a million bucks for a nice draft pick.

Ill take your word on Stoa.. I was just cruising the list of UFAs and he seemed like an interesting gamble. My point was basically that I think there are lots of interesting options for the bottom six and it may be better to shake things up than stick with the aging status-quo like Darche (who I think was a serviceable and very professional player for us.. but I wouldnt feel sad to see him go.. he got to live the dream as a Montrealer playing in his hometown and now it may be time to move on).

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05-21-2012, 03:04 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
Why did Travis Moen want to leave California... I dont see why we couldnt pry McClement away on a 1.5 a year deal. It seems to be a common trend in the NHL right now to let guys who are basically kids step into role-player positions.. I think you still need the veteran players to hold down these places on a team. McClement is also never injured and very durable. An intelligent and dependable player sort of like a younger Halpern. And because I anticipate the Habs returning to the postseason next year, these are the types of players you need. Rather see Bergevin sign them in the offseason than make like Gauthier and sacrifice 2nd or 3rd round picks at the deadline every year. And if the team busts like they did this season, they are the type of player you move at the deadline for picks... its a win-win situation. We have the budget to sign them, and if your luck sucks and the team falls apart... ok, fine... we paid a million bucks for a nice draft pick.

Ill take your word on Stoa.. I was just cruising the list of UFAs and he seemed like an interesting gamble. My point was basically that I think there are lots of interesting options for the bottom six and it may be better to shake things up than stick with the aging status-quo like Darche (who I think was a serviceable and very professional player for us.. but I wouldnt feel sad to see him go.. he got to live the dream as a Montrealer playing in his hometown and now it may be time to move on).
McClement will get around 2.5mil. He's one of the best PKers in the entire NHL, he's a great defensive forward and quite honestly he is a little bit wasted if he plays only 4th line minutes. Every Avs fan would be pretty happy if he's resigned for something like 2.5mil per year over 3-4 years. As an Avs fan I apsolutely love what McClement brings to that team, you just feel secure when he's on the ice, he's a pretty good leader and he wore the A for a number of games in Colorado.

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05-21-2012, 03:14 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
McClement will get around 2.5mil. He's one of the best PKers in the entire NHL, he's a great defensive forward and quite honestly he is a little bit wasted if he plays only 4th line minutes. Every Avs fan would be pretty happy if he's resigned for something like 2.5mil per year over 3-4 years. As an Avs fan I apsolutely love what McClement brings to that team, you just feel secure when he's on the ice, he's a pretty good leader and he wore the A for a number of games in Colorado.
I want a deep team with a fourth line that can hold its own playing at least 10 minutes a game. Factor in the PK skills and youd have him playing right around the 13-14 minutes he played with the Avs.

At least you agree with me that he is an excellent player and I suppose he is going to be in demand come UFA season unless the Avs lock him up... I keep restating on these boards how badly I want the Habs to have a deep, four line team that doesnt rely on mediocre minor league depth or unprepared call-ups.. to me spending 2 (Im a bit skeptical of 2.5) each on player like him and Moen would be HUGE steps for this team. Its not money poorly spent at all, I guess if you consider it would be the same cost for a guy like McClement as what they paid for Campoli+Darche.

PS - Keep in mind the Habs fourth line centre this year made 7.4 million so 2.5 is nothing.


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05-21-2012, 03:41 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
McClement will get around 2.5mil. He's one of the best PKers in the entire NHL, he's a great defensive forward and quite honestly he is a little bit wasted if he plays only 4th line minutes. Every Avs fan would be pretty happy if he's resigned for something like 2.5mil per year over 3-4 years. As an Avs fan I apsolutely love what McClement brings to that team, you just feel secure when he's on the ice, he's a pretty good leader and he wore the A for a number of games in Colorado.
I'd really like to see them overpay to get Doan out of Phoenix IF he doesn't come to an agreement with them. He's apparently Price's cousin so there's a chance he might be interested in coming to Montreal. You'd have to overpay him but he'd add an amazing dimension to the team. Probably a pipe dream, but maybe 3 years 16.5 would be enough?

Send Gomez to whatever team he wants to, outside of the NHL (or bury him in the AHL)

Trade Kaberle and Aaron Palushaj to Anaheim for Andrew Cogliano and their 2012 4th round pick

Sign Michal Roszival 2 years 6 million

Price 6 years 6.1 per
Subban 3 years 3.75 per
Moen 3 years 2.1 per
Eller 2 years 2.1 per
Emelin 2 years 1.8 per
Diaz 2 years 1.5 per
White 1 year 750K
Geoffrion 1 year 825K


FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($5.500m)
Travis Moen ($2.100m) / Lars Eller ($2.100m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Blake Geoffrion ($0.825m) / Andrew Cogliano ($2.390m) / Ryan White ($0.750m)
Mike Blunden ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($3.750m)
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.800m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.500m) / Michal Rozsival ($3.000m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m) /
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.100m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
I really liked the way Gomez Gionta and Moen played together a couple of years ago and I think Eller would be a good fit there, that leaves the Habs very big on the wings and with 4 guys who have 20+ goal potential and if Gionta gets 1st PP time he's going to probably hit 20 goals as well.

And between Geoffrion, White, Moen, Cogliano, Bourque and Eller the Habs won't need to rely on Plekx quite so much for the PK.

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05-21-2012, 03:45 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
I'd really like to see them overpay to get Doan out of Phoenix IF he doesn't come to an agreement with them. He's apparently Price's cousin so there's a chance he might be interested in coming to Montreal. You'd have to overpay him but he'd add an amazing dimension to the team. Probably a pipe dream, but maybe 3 years 16.5 would be enough?

Send Gomez to whatever team he wants to, outside of the NHL (or bury him in the AHL)

Trade Kaberle and Aaron Palushaj to Anaheim for Andrew Cogliano and their 2012 4th round pick

Sign Michal Roszival 2 years 6 million

Price 6 years 6.1 per
Subban 3 years 3.75 per
Moen 3 years 2.1 per
Eller 2 years 2.1 per
Emelin 2 years 1.8 per
Diaz 2 years 1.5 per
White 1 year 750K
Geoffrion 1 year 825K


FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($5.500m)
Travis Moen ($2.100m) / Lars Eller ($2.100m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Blake Geoffrion ($0.825m) / Andrew Cogliano ($2.390m) / Ryan White ($0.750m)
Mike Blunden ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($3.750m)
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.800m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.500m) / Michal Rozsival ($3.000m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m) /
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.100m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
I really liked the way Gomez Gionta and Moen played together a couple of years ago and I think Eller would be a good fit there, that leaves the Habs very big on the wings and with 4 guys who have 20+ goal potential and if Gionta gets 1st PP time he's going to probably hit 20 goals as well.

And between Geoffrion, White, Moen, Cogliano, Bourque and Eller the Habs won't need to rely on Plekx quite so much for the PK.
I would pay to see the ****storm caused by doan coming to montreal.

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05-21-2012, 04:05 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
I'd really like to see them overpay to get Doan out of Phoenix IF he doesn't come to an agreement with them. He's apparently Price's cousin so there's a chance he might be interested in coming to Montreal. You'd have to overpay him but he'd add an amazing dimension to the team. Probably a pipe dream, but maybe 3 years 16.5 would be enough?
I think Doan is the perfect player and basically would fit like a glove like Cole has so far. But he is a bit of a pipe dream because of his alleged slur a few years ago. Whether he said it or not, there are enough idiots in our media to cause a stupid fuss about it instead of let the past be the past.

I would rather go after Ryane Clowe. His contract is up after one-year which gives us flexibility to sign Pacioretty after 2013 instead of being locked into a big UFA contract (we already have Cole and Gionta on those). His cap hit is similiar to Bourque and he can play on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line. Big player and a newfie so may have been a Hab fan growing up...

Plus I think SJ will go hard for Nash and have to move Marleau and a young roster defenceman plus prospect+pick. The Habs have three young roster defenceman and lots of picks to help them re-stock. Good fit Id say.

On defence I would overpay for Jackman on a four-year deal the same way we did for Hamrlik and Cole. Give him 5 million over 4 years and we have a solid top-four of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Jackman. I like Brad Stuart too but he will sign in Detroit or California.

Kaberle you take the 1.5 cap hit on a buyout and Gomez you exile to Tijuana but keep him in correspondance with the team because he is entertaining and a good guy.


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05-21-2012, 04:15 PM
  #235
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Here is my shopping list for the summer Palhsson or Gaustad and jordan tootoo

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05-21-2012, 04:16 PM
  #236
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If Doan doesn't come to terms with the Yotes (highly unlikely) or if the Yotes relocate he'll stay as close as possible to Phoenix. California based franchises have the best shot at landing him and Dallas and Colorado have slim chances if they outbid those franchises by a significant margain.

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05-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #237
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Here is my shopping list for the summer Palhsson or Gaustad and jordan tootoo
I'd like to see him in Montreal, it seems he fell out of favour in Nashville. Gaustad will get overpaid by a lot and it seems he's quite keen on staying with the Preds.

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05-21-2012, 04:24 PM
  #238
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This is my tough, never-gonna-happen-but-fun-to-think-about team and so playoffs it aint even funny.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Clowe - Plekanec - Gionta
Moen - Eller - Bourque
Tootoo - McClement - White
Staubitz

Markov - Subban
Jackman - Gorges
Emelin - Hannan
Weber

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05-21-2012, 04:46 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by JC93 View Post
This is my tough, never-gonna-happen-but-fun-to-think-about team and so playoffs it aint even funny.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Clowe - Plekanec - Gionta
Moen - Eller - Bourque
Tootoo - McClement - White
Staubitz

Markov - Subban
Jackman - Gorges
Emelin - Hannan
Weber
There's one problem with that lineup (not a big one), you don't aquire McClement to surround him with two players that aren't on his level defensively IMHO. If we aquire Silent Jay I want him to be surrounded with defensively responsible players so that we could use his line as a shutdown line against the best opposing lines, like the Avs did when they played him and Winnik (also an UFA this season) together.

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05-21-2012, 04:51 PM
  #240
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Suter to test market

Apparently Pete Weber said on NHL Home ice that Suter is going to head to free agency. Should be interesting. This then opens the door for Weber next season as he is RFA this season but Poile blew his shot last year when he took Weber to arbitration. Weber can now take the Preds to arbitration for a raise and a 1 year deal which takes him to UFA next year.

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05-21-2012, 04:53 PM
  #241
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$9 million per year...........

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05-21-2012, 04:53 PM
  #242
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I know it is a long shot for him to come here, but I hope Bergevin is preparing the offer as I type this....

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05-21-2012, 04:54 PM
  #243
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It should be interesting for sure, sadly for us IIRC he said he won't sign north of the border.

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05-21-2012, 04:56 PM
  #244
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I like this because of the implications it then brings for Weber this summer and next season. Poile blew tonnes of picks to bring guys in to make a run that failed now their one big UFA declaires he is going to market and their next one who is RFA this season holds the cards and the team hostage and can choose arbitration himself for a decent raise a one year deal and then UFA after the season is over.

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05-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #245
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There's one problem with that lineup (not a big one), you don't aquire McClement to surround him with two players that aren't on his level defensively IMHO. If we aquire Silent Jay I want him to be surrounded with defensively responsible players so that we could use his line as a shutdown line against the best opposing lines, like the Avs did when they played him and Winnik (also an UFA this season) together.
What would be some suitable wingers... I reckon something like Moen - McClement - Leblanc is more your speed , which would actually be an interesting line like the Moen - Moore - Lapierre the Habs had in the playoffs two years ago

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05-21-2012, 05:06 PM
  #246
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How does Suter hitting the market change anything for Weber? If anything there is now more money to sign him. Anyhow, I feel Suter is actually the better defenseman of the two and drool at the thought of him coming here.

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05-21-2012, 05:09 PM
  #247
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How does Suter hitting the market change anything for Weber? If anything there is now more money to sign him. Anyhow, I feel Suter is actually the better defenseman of the two and drool at the thought of him coming here.
Because Suter and Weber both stated they wanted to see Poile bring in guys to make a run at the cup anything short was not good enough. They fell short and Suter is now bolting. Weber was a big proponent of Suter staying put and vice versa. Weber won't stick around without Suter there as it now sets the team back further.

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05-21-2012, 05:09 PM
  #248
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How does Suter hitting the market change anything for Weber? If anything there is now more money to sign him. Anyhow, I feel Suter is actually the better defenseman of the two and drool at the thought of him coming here.
Preds have enough money to sign them both. His best buddy bolting will for sure have big implications on Weber's decision.

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05-21-2012, 05:13 PM
  #249
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What would be some suitable wingers... I reckon something like Moen - McClement - Leblanc is more your speed , which would actually be an interesting line like the Moen - Moore - Lapierre the Habs had in the playoffs two years ago
If Moen resigns I'd put him on McClement's wing for sure.

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05-21-2012, 05:17 PM
  #250
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Those who are fans of the Boston Bruins model will no doubt support the idea of signing an elite free-agent dman in or near his prime to a long-term contract, even if it's an overpayment.

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