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Old
05-21-2012, 05:10 PM
  #26
nmbr_24
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
I watch all of these players. Except Forsberg who I have only seen play three times. I watch more junior hockey than I do NHL hockey.
So basically your system is the same as mine, I just don't agree with you assesment.

I think Hamilton stands a heck of a chance of being one of the very best D in the NHL for a very long time, Murray just doesn't do that for me. Don't get me wrong, I think he will be a fine player, Hamilton is something completely different in my eyes.

Hamilton may even need more time to develop than Murray, but it looks to me that once Hamilton is there, he has a real chance to be one of the guys in the discussion for being the best D in the game.

Anything can happen, injuries, etc, but barring that, I think hamilton will be the better player in the long run.

I remember Chris Pronger when he was breaking in for the Hartford Whalers and in a less physical way, Hamilton reminds me of Pronger at a young age.

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05-21-2012, 05:11 PM
  #27
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Are you talking Offensively or all around.
All around.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
So basically your system is the same as mine, I just don't agree with you assesment.

I think Hamilton stands a heck of a chance of being one of the very best D in the NHL for a very long time, Murray just doesn't do that for me. Don't get me wrong, I think he will be a fine player, Hamilton is something completely different in my eyes.

Hamilton may even need more time to develop than Murray, but it looks to me that once Hamilton is there, he has a real chance to be one of the guys in the discussion for being the best D in the game.

Anything can happen, injuries, etc, but barring that, I think hamilton will be the better player in the long run.

I remember Chris Pronger when he was breaking in for the Hartford Whalers and in a less physical way, Hamilton reminds me of Pronger at a young age.
I don't see best D in the game but 15-20 if everything goes perfectly. Needs to play meaner too.

If anyone, anyone at all thought Hamilton had a chance of becoming a top 5 D in the game he would have easily gone first overall.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:35 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
I don't see best D in the game but 15-20 if everything goes perfectly. Needs to play meaner too.

If anyone, anyone at all thought Hamilton had a chance of becoming a top 5 D in the game he would have easily gone first overall.
Yet you can project Grigs as a 90-100 pt player which only a handful of players have accomplished the last few years.

Granted you did compare Hamilton to Cody Franson in the last Hamilton thread so.....

Either way Boston says no thanks to the Leafs. None of the D in this draft impress me like Hamilton. Leafs also need to address a serious need for a center which the #5 should help with.

Boston has their top D prospect (the best D prospect not in the NHL mind you) and the Leafs us the #5 on Gally, Grigs or Forsberg.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:52 PM
  #30
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All shinnanigans aside...
Hamilton > Leafs first.

Nuff said / Close thread.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:57 PM
  #31
Kulemon
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Originally Posted by IrishPaulie View Post
Yet you can project Grigs as a 90-100 pt player which only a handful of players have accomplished the last few years.

Granted you did compare Hamilton to Cody Franson in the last Hamilton thread so.....

Either way Boston says no thanks to the Leafs. None of the D in this draft impress me like Hamilton. Leafs also need to address a serious need for a center which the #5 should help with.

Boston has their top D prospect (the best D prospect not in the NHL mind you) and the Leafs us the #5 on Gally, Grigs or Forsberg.
Grigorenko has that potential. He's just as talented as Yakupov. There are questions with him though. I'm not the only one that thinks highly of him lol. Many followers of Russian hockey think he is the best Russian prospect since Malkin and Ovie including yakupov. The head scout of central scouting even said he reminded him of joe Thornton except better.

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Old
05-21-2012, 08:22 PM
  #32
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Ryan Murray is available at #5.

Ryan Murray is better than Dougie Hamilton.

Hence, why would the Leafs even sniff at this?

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Old
05-21-2012, 08:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I would like to know your formula for figuring out these players potential.

Whatever it is you should probably take a look at how in the world your system could predict that Grigorenko will be a 100 point player and Hamilton a 50 point max player even though in real life Hamilton scored at almost the exact ppg as Grigorenko.

That leads me to believe that if Grigorenko is a 90-100 point playmaking center, then Hamilton is a 90-100 point #1 defenseman. That is if your system for figuring out what these players will be is at all accurate.
I more want to know how you can predict someone to be a 90-100 point center period. 3 people got 90+ points this year. And if Grig is projected to get 90-100, I guess that means Yakupov is projected for 110+. I guess 2 of the top 5 players in the league soon will be from this draft and there is no doubt about it

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Old
05-21-2012, 08:49 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Grigorenko has that potential. He's just as talented as Yakupov. There are questions with him though. I'm not the only one that thinks highly of him lol. Many followers of Russian hockey think he is the best Russian prospect since Malkin and Ovie including yakupov. The head scout of central scouting even said he reminded him of joe Thornton except better.
Hamilton and Grigorenko had an identical PPG average this year, I guess Hamilton is going to score 100+ points soon.

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Old
05-21-2012, 08:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Grigorenko has that potential. He's just as talented as Yakupov. There are questions with him though. I'm not the only one that thinks highly of him lol. Many followers of Russian hockey think he is the best Russian prospect since Malkin and Ovie including yakupov. The head scout of central scouting even said he reminded him of joe Thornton except better.
You do realize that Colborne was also compared to Thornton?

How is Colborne doing?

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Old
05-21-2012, 08:56 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Wow, was I the only one expecting a goalie proposal, most likely Thomas.
i thought so as well.

on topic, toronto has to add. probably not much, but still...

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Compare potentials (if everything goes right):

Grigorenko - 90-100 point playmaking center

Galchenyuk - PPG two way center

Forsberg - 70 point 6'3 200lb power forward winger with leadership qualities so potential captain
[...]
and by the time toronto picks, those three could, and most likely will be gone so what is your point?

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
I don't see best D in the game but 15-20 if everything goes perfectly. Needs to play meaner too.

If anyone, anyone at all thought Hamilton had a chance of becoming a top 5 D in the game he would have easily gone first overall.
Nobody saw Chara, Weber, or Lidstrom as being worth a top pick, that certaimly doesn't mean that they aren't 3 of the top 5 D in the league.

Players develop and become much better than they originally were envisioned to be and some players end up not being what they were thought to be.

All we have to do is llok at the Leaf's most recent top 10 picks in Kadri and Schenn. Kadri looked like he was going to be anextremely talented forward and Schenn looked like he was going to be a shutdown D. Neither of them are even close to achieving those goals.

The point is that there is no way you can say Grigorenko will be a 90-100 point forward and to suggest that is what he will be is to suggest that he will score more than anyone in the league right now except for a few players. You are saying Grigorenko will outscore everyone except Malkin, Stamkos, Crosby, the Sedins, correct?

Also, I never said Hamilton will definitely be anything, I said he has a chance to be one of the very best D in the game after his games develops further. No sure thing, just a chance.

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:13 PM
  #39
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Trust me, if Toronto doesn't want to do this, you might as well save your time.

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:25 PM
  #40
Kulemon
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Originally Posted by Mainehockey33 View Post
Hamilton and Grigorenko had an identical PPG average this year, I guess Hamilton is going to score 100+ points soon.
Nice logic. You seem like an intelligent person.


Last edited by Kulemon: 05-21-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old
05-21-2012, 09:27 PM
  #41
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I more want to know how you can predict someone to be a 90-100 point center period. 3 people got 90+ points this year. And if Grig is projected to get 90-100, I guess that means Yakupov is projected for 110+. I guess 2 of the top 5 players in the league soon will be from this draft and there is no doubt about it
Hurr durp da durp. I said that's If everything goes right. Yakupov btw has similar potential to Grigorenko in my opinion which is 90-100 points although he is a safer bet.

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
You do realize that Colborne was also compared to Thornton?

How is Colborne doing?
Grigorenko has potential to have a Thornton like career. Colborne never had that potential. Thornton lite at best.

By the way Colborne is very inconsistent. Dominates at times and shows his potential. Then goes completely invisible for stretches. It's frustrating. If he ever finds consistency in his game he could be a really good player.

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:31 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Hurr durp da durp. I said that's If everything goes right. Yakupov btw has similar potential to Grigorenko in my opinion which is 90-100 points although he is a safer bet.
No offense but I prefer listening to NHL scouts opinions who seem to agree Yakupov is easily the best player in the draft.

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #44
Kulemon
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No offense but I prefer listening to NHL scouts opinions who seem to agree Yakupov is easily the best player in the draft.
Hold up. I think you're confusing consensus first overall pick for easily best player in the draft. Yakupov is the safest bet to become a star in this draft. No one would be shocked if Grigorenko and possibly even Galchenyuk turned out better in the long run though.

I would still take Yakupov 1st 100%

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Old
05-21-2012, 09:45 PM
  #45
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Boston doesn't do this and I don't blame leafs for saying no either.

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Old
05-21-2012, 10:28 PM
  #46
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To think we could have had Hamilton, Knight, and Seguin... *****

How do you know we still would've finished in the same position to draft Seguin and Hamilton?

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Old
05-21-2012, 10:32 PM
  #47
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How do you know we still would've finished in the same position to draft Seguin and Hamilton?
Without Kessel the leafs likely would have been worse so the picks could have actually been better.

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Old
05-21-2012, 10:33 PM
  #48
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How do you know we still would've finished in the same position to draft Seguin and Hamilton?
Sorry, we would of finished lower with his points not there. Maybe not Seguin year, but def. Hamilton year and then we would have in the long-term 1C T.Segs, and top pair Hamilton-Schenn.

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Old
05-21-2012, 11:03 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Compare potentials (if everything goes right):

Grigorenko - 90-100 point playmaking center

Galchenyuk - PPG two way center

Forsberg - 70 point 6'3 200lb power forward winger with leadership qualities so potential captain

Hamilton - 40-50 point giant two way top pairing D


All of those forwards if they work out would be much more valuable, especially to the leafs who need to get bigger and they are all 6'2 or larger.

Oh and Toronto's D is not awful. Their previous coach had no clue on how to coach them on defense.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Franson

They also have Blacker, Percy, and Holzer in the system.
I take the dman that can play 25 minutes per game. Who also could be more in the 50-60 point range at some point. Easily. Also, that defense is awful, I am sorry.

And hell no at this horrid proposal!

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Old
05-21-2012, 11:05 PM
  #50
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Dougie "Mr. Over-rated" Hamilton

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