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The FAN 1200 - Pierre McGuire - 3rd overall vs J. Staal??

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Old
05-18-2012, 09:27 AM
  #451
bsl
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Staal might be worth a 3d overall pick, but Staal is not that much an improvement at Center that i would trade for. i rather gamble on drafting someone > J Staal, even if the probabilities might be small'ish
Not one of you realizes Max, PK and Price are gone in 5 years unless we act now. Rebuild and contend. That's what competent management does, it's just that we haven't seen it in over 30 years.

I have no problem taking Staal as part of this window, while also making good picks and trades for the future. This is how it actually works with well run teams, except very few guys here have seen it. I have, from 1968-1980.

It is not contend or rebuild. It is contend and rebuild.

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05-18-2012, 09:50 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Everyone except Pittsburgh (maybe) is going to have to pay what he's worth... so what? No seriously, what kind of "point" is that? Doesn't change the fact that he'd be in house, and no one else would be able to even negotiate with/offer him anything until July 1st of the following year.
So if you're going to give huge money to Staal, give it to Parise or Suter instead, even if you overpay...and you still have your #3 overall pick to swing for a high end forward.

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05-18-2012, 10:06 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
The "market" doesn't matter until after July 1st, when they can actually entertain offers and see what they can get. Before that, it's just comparables and negotiation. And who cares if they're "locked up" if they never turn out to be as good as Staal? And why do so many posters totally forget about the bonus of having him at only $4 million next year?
Because having a 2nd-line C at 4 million for a year isn't worth a 3rd overall pick for starters and there's no rational argument for Staal deciding to just sign with Montreal and skip free agency. He'd be an idiot unless Montreal gave him a ridiculous contract. There's not a sane argument to try and build a franchise's centre depth around a 2C either. Jordan Staal is not, nor will he ever be like his brother Eric who is a true 1C.

The pick may never be as good as Staal, but Montreal would have the pick, plus the opportunity to offer Staal, or the actual 1st-line C Getzlaf a contract and not be worse off as having exchanged an extremely high-value asset for extended negotiating rights.

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05-18-2012, 10:32 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So if you're going to give huge money to Staal, give it to Parise or Suter instead, even if you overpay...and you still have your #3 overall pick to swing for a high end forward.
This pretty much sums it up for me too. Signing a UFA costs money, no surprise, but it shouldn't cost money and other significant assets. If you think Staal is worth/should get a long term deal @$7M per then Montreal can draft Galchenyuk or whomever then go get Staal next offseason, maybe it'll cost a 6th or 7th year to the deal. Maybe it'll be another half million per year. Maybe it'll be Getzlaf instead of Staal. That's fine. I'd rather pay that sort of premium vs. losing the #3 plus Tinordi/Gallagher or whatever for the chance to sign a UFA contract a year early.

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05-19-2012, 01:03 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So if you're going to give huge money to Staal, give it to Parise or Suter instead, even if you overpay...and you still have your #3 overall pick to swing for a high end forward.
This
Besides we already have a Devil in Gionta that might help land Parise. We just need to get rid of the other Devil, Gomez. In the Cap world we need to use draft picks to bring in young cheap quality talent then fill in the other spots with UFAs. Montreal ran into trouble by trading away too many picks in the past few years then signing to many expensive UFAs to try to fill the prospect void. Timmins brought in a lot of young talent with great drafting but management traded a lot of it away.

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05-20-2012, 03:24 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by SeriousFan09 View Post
Jordan Staal is not, nor will he ever be like his brother Eric who is a true 1C.
Just to clarify: this is fact because you say so?

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05-20-2012, 05:41 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
The thing is you can't renegotiate his contract before july.

Now maybe it's just me but I woudn't gamble my 3rd pick on a gentlemen's agreement.
You can't sign a deal before July. You can certainly come to an agreement.

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05-20-2012, 05:43 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Hahahah yeah.

I'm the ONLY one who thinks that this trade would occur before Staal signing an extension...
There are plenty of people that think wrestling is real, too but that doesn't make it so.


You can laugh all you want, but if you really think Montreal - or any team - would surrender a 3rd overall draft pick for Jordan Staal *without* a contractual extension then I assure you the joke is on you.

So keep fighting that good fight and keep reminding people that it's a "risky" deal cause Staal might sign elsewhere after the trade.... and I will keep laughing at you how hilariously naive you are.


Last edited by FerrisRox: 05-21-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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05-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Uh. Before you make the trade, Staal knows about it and agrees in writing to form a new contract with Montreal as part of the trade. If he does not sign by the draft, the trade is nullified. Easy? No. Possible? Yes, unlike what you say above.

As far as I know, there is no rule saying Staal or any UFA can't sign a new contract before his contract is up. Period.

The only hard thing here is MTL insisting that Staal must agree to sign a new contract with them before the trade, and then actually sign before the draft, or the trade is NUll.

If I was Bergevein, I would talk to Pitts and Staal about this. Why not?
It's quite simple and, despite all the hand-wringing going on around here, fairly common. They make the deal in principle and, when the two teams have agreed, there's a 24 or 48 hour window where Bergevin can speak with Staal's agent about what he's looking for contractually and if his client sees Montreal as a place he would sign with long-term. If they can find some common ground, the trade is done, if not, the deal falls apart. This is not rocket science, nor is it rare in anyway in the league.


Last edited by FerrisRox: 05-21-2012 at 10:43 AM.
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05-20-2012, 06:07 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
It's quite simple and, despite all the hang-wringing going on around here, fairly common. They make the deal in principle and, when the two teams have agreed, there's a 24 or 48 hour window where Bergevin can speak with Staal's agent about what he's looking for contractually and if his client sees Montreal as a place he would sign with long-term. If they can find some common ground, the trade is done, if not, the deal falls apart. This is not rocket science, nor is it rare in anyway in the league.
Look at the first day of free agency and the amounts of deals that get done. To think they woke up early in the morning and hashed all those deals in a matter of a few hours is silly.

I've thought for a while that they should impose a 72 hour or 1 week no-signing period after the start of free agency to allow teams and players a chance to negotiate in good faith.

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Old
05-20-2012, 08:29 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
There are plenty of people that think wrestling is real, too but that doesn't make it so.


You can laugh all you want, but if you really think Montreal - or any team - would surrender a 3rd overall draft pick for Jordan Staal *without* a contractual extension then I assure you the joke is on you.

So keep fighting that good fight and keep reminding people that it's a "risky" deal cause Staal might sign elsewhere after the trade.... and I will keep laughing at you how hilarious naive you are.
Hahha, you're a joke. I never said they would trade the 3rd overall for him without a contract extension. You try to make yourself look smart by refuting somethin I didn't say.

What a nerd

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Old
05-20-2012, 10:38 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
It's quite simple and, despite all the hang-wringing going on around here, fairly common. They make the deal in principle and, when the two teams have agreed, there's a 24 or 48 hour window where Bergevin can speak with Staal's agent about what he's looking for contractually and if his client sees Montreal as a place he would sign with long-term. If they can find some common ground, the trade is done, if not, the deal falls apart. This is not rocket science, nor is it rare in anyway in the league.
Yes, quite simple. And Staal will gladly give up his opportunity to hit the free agent market to sign for many years with the third worst team in the league.

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05-20-2012, 11:18 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
Yes, quite simple. And Staal will gladly give up his opportunity to hit the free agent market to sign for many years with the third worst team in the league.
He wouldn't have to give it up until next year, when we likely won't be the third worst team in the league.

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05-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Hahha, you're a joke. I never said they would trade the 3rd overall for him without a contract extension. You try to make yourself look smart by refuting somethin I didn't say.

What a nerd
Then what is your point about the "risk"? Specifically, re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
At the end of the day, come draft day they'd be trading the 3rd overall pick for a guy who can leave as a uFA next year.

You can talk about negotiating and handshake deals til you're blue in the face but it doesn't change that fact.

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Old
05-21-2012, 05:20 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
He wouldn't have to give it up until next year, when we likely won't be the third worst team in the league.
I thought the point was to make him agree to a deal before we make the trade at the draft?

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05-21-2012, 06:14 PM
  #466
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Why Jordan Staal? Perhaps Bergevin can make a more ambitious deal, like the one Lamoriello made to get Ilya Kovalchuk. There's no way the Devils would be in the ECF without that trade.

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05-21-2012, 06:17 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why Jordan Staal? Perhaps Bergevin can make a more ambitious deal, like the one Lamoriello made to get Ilya Kovalchuk. There's no way the Devils would be in the ECF without that trade.
Yeah ! Let's try to get Malkin or Ovechkin !

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05-21-2012, 06:47 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why Jordan Staal? Perhaps Bergevin can make a more ambitious deal, like the one Lamoriello made to get Ilya Kovalchuk. There's no way the Devils would be in the ECF without that trade.
I would like to see an example of a team trading a very high pick for a player and it working out great for them.

Staal is a hell of a player, but I don't think he's one that you rob your scouting staff the chance of drafting a player at 3rd overall for. Whether it's a "weak" draft or not.

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