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Old
05-22-2012, 03:46 AM
  #51
Calories
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Originally Posted by Horton Hears A Woo View Post
outside of thomas in that deal who are the players on the bruins in that deal who are near the end of there careers???? let alone you wouldnt get patrice for any player or pick alone of edm roster.....
fair enough. I thought Bergeron was older than he was but to say there is no one on the oilers they would trade him for is laughable. He is important to the Bruins but they would trade him in an instant for one of our big 3. Plus he is one concussion away from being done.

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Old
05-22-2012, 04:53 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oilers1 View Post
I think if we try to deal with Boston the deal should look more like:

Bos: Paajarvi, Marincin or Gernat and First Overall 2012

Edm: Lucic, Hamilton and First round pick 2012


I know a lot of fans both ways may not like this especially Boston fans but the way I see it is Edm needs some grit on the wings in their top 6 and i feel Hamilton is exactly the kind of D-man the Oilers could use and is likely capable of stepping into the line up next season and the later pick in the 1st round might give us a shot at one of the goalie prospects or maybe Samuelsson from the Oil Kings. Bos would pick up a right winger that they could really use if they take Yak who will fit nicely with Seguin and Paajarvi as a future number one line with speed size and skill arguabley on par with the Oilers number one line of Hall, Nuge and Eberle and Maricin or Gernat may have as much potential as Hamilton but are likely still a few years off of taking their act to the show. With Hortons future shrouded in fog(no pun intended) I think this deal is a win for both teams both now and in the future. Having said all that i would still be willing to add a pick in one of the later rounds to make this deal happen if i were the Oilers. Alright Boston fans im done please be gentle.
I really don't think that is a deal that the Bruins would be interested in. Lucic is a big part of the team and a pretty unique player, Hamilton is the exact prospect that the Bruins need, really. Chara is getting older and eventually the Bruins will need someone to replace him. Hamilton could realistically be that player.

Of course the Bruins would love to have the first overall, so would eevery team, but you aren't going to find many contending teams that are willing to move core players from their teams for a draft pick, the window to win is open right now and taking core players off of your team lessens the chance to compete for a Cup right now even if the player drafted is eventually a better player than the player traded.

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Old
05-22-2012, 09:12 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers1 View Post
I think if we try to deal with Boston the deal should look more like:

Bos: Paajarvi, Marincin or Gernat and First Overall 2012

Edm: Lucic, Hamilton and First round pick 2012


I know a lot of fans both ways may not like this especially Boston fans but the way I see it is Edm needs some grit on the wings in their top 6 and i feel Hamilton is exactly the kind of D-man the Oilers could use and is likely capable of stepping into the line up next season and the later pick in the 1st round might give us a shot at one of the goalie prospects or maybe Samuelsson from the Oil Kings. Bos would pick up a right winger that they could really use if they take Yak who will fit nicely with Seguin and Paajarvi as a future number one line with speed size and skill arguabley on par with the Oilers number one line of Hall, Nuge and Eberle and Maricin or Gernat may have as much potential as Hamilton but are likely still a few years off of taking their act to the show. With Hortons future shrouded in fog(no pun intended) I think this deal is a win for both teams both now and in the future. Having said all that i would still be willing to add a pick in one of the later rounds to make this deal happen if i were the Oilers. Alright Boston fans im done please be gentle.
Not that Boston would trade Lucic or Hamilton anyhow, but IF they did, this is what you could expect coming to Boston in return:

Hall
1st overall (Yakupov)


Players like Milan Lucic don't just grow on trees, there arent many 30/30 powerforwards in the NHL, especially one who's a tender 23yrs old and still has lots of time to continue to develop his game. He's a game changer.

Hamilton as previously mentioned has tons of potential, and Chara wont last forever so he fills a very specific need for Boston.

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Old
05-22-2012, 09:24 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calories View Post
fair enough. I thought Bergeron was older than he was but to say there is no one on the oilers they would trade him for is laughable. He is important to the Bruins but they would trade him in an instant for one of our big 3. Plus he is one concussion away from being done.
He's missed a total of 3 games in the past 2 years...pretty sure we can stop using concussions as a way to devalue him. And no, the Bruins wouldn't trade Bergeron for one of the Oilers "big 3." At least not straight up they wouldn't.

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Old
05-22-2012, 09:37 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
if you go by numbers... Nail is better than Hall and Nail didnt have an all-star team around him.
Draft year:
Hall: 10 draft nov 91 6'1"
.7GPG 1.16APG 1.86PPG

Yakupov: 12 draft oct 93 5'11"
.74GPG .90APG 1.64PPG

It was taylor versus tyler.

Yakupov is not even the best producing player in the draft.
that goes to Hertl.
who's production rate in the Czech league would be equal to :
.8GPG .87APG 1.67PPG in the CHL.

Point is!
Are you intentially lying or just misinformed.
One is trolling.

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Old
05-22-2012, 11:03 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Unorthodox proposal here.

To EDM
P. Bergeron
T. Thomas
Adam McQuaid
2013 1st RD

To BOS
2012 1st overall
2013 1st RD
Gagner
Peckham or prospect
Cap space to go after Suter

I probably put too many players in.

Personally i dont feel my original idea of Bergeron for the 1st overall was

Hall Nuge Ebs
Magnus Bergeron Hemsky
Smyth Horcoff Harti
Eager Belanger Jones

Smid Petry
Whitney McQuaid
N Schultz Potter

T Thomas
Dubnyk
Last 4 Years:
Bergeron Age 27
298 GM 71G 141A 212P .71PPG

Gagner age 23
287GM 64G 107A 171P .61PPG

Not willing to pay twice the salary for 1
more point every ten games.
Giving up a player just coming out of core strength development.

Since Jan.
Tim Thomas 5'11" 208LB 38YR
1991 MIN--28.1 Shots/gm--2.65GA --.906 SV%
19W 13L 1OTL .591 win%

Dubnyk 6'5" 195LB 26YR

1822 min--31.0 shots/GM--2.47GA--.920 SV%
16W 11L 3OTL .583 Win%

Not even close who is the starter.
An old short goalie with a .905 Sv% with A 5M Cap.
Do you think we are TOR?

Mcquaid-Peckahm
Mcquid would be a depth Dman for a shutdown role. Currently signed Sutton w/ Better # for our 6-7 position.

so what we got is:
the #1 overall in 2012
our #1 in 2013
A top 10 Goalie since Jan.

For Bos #1 in 2013
A back-up goalie since Jan.

I trying to think of a worse Proposal.


XXX-RNH-Eberle
HALL-Gagner-Hemsky
MP-Horc-XXX
Belanger-XXX-Jones
Eager

Smid-Petry
XXX-Schultz
Whitney-XXX
Sutton-Potter

Dubnyk
XXX

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Old
05-22-2012, 11:26 AM
  #57
Oates2Neely
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Are we really comparing Sam Gagner to Patrice Bergeron?

Slow day here huh

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Old
05-22-2012, 11:27 AM
  #58
WreckItRask
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Last 4 Years:
Bergeron Age 27
298 GM 71G 141A 212P .71PPG

Gagner age 23
287GM 64G 107A 171P .61PPG

Not willing to pay twice the salary for 1
more point every ten games.
Giving up a player just coming out of core strength development.

Since Jan.
Tim Thomas 5'11" 208LB 38YR
1991 MIN--28.1 Shots/gm--2.65GA --.906 SV%
19W 13L 1OTL .591 win%

Dubnyk 6'5" 195LB 26YR

1822 min--31.0 shots/GM--2.47GA--.920 SV%
16W 11L 3OTL .583 Win%

Not even close who is the starter.
An old short goalie with a .905 Sv% with A 5M Cap.
Do you think we are TOR?

Mcquaid-Peckahm
Mcquid would be a depth Dman for a shutdown role. Currently signed Sutton w/ Better # for our 6-7 position.

so what we got is:
the #1 overall in 2012
our #1 in 2013
A top 10 Goalie since Jan.

For Bos #1 in 2013
A back-up goalie since Jan.

I trying to think of a worse Proposal.


XXX-RNH-Eberle
HALL-Gagner-Hemsky
MP-Horc-XXX
Belanger-XXX-Jones
Eager

Smid-Petry
XXX-Schultz
Whitney-XXX
Sutton-Potter

Dubnyk
XXX
So...Sam Gagner and Patrice Bergeron are basically the same player, Dubnyk is better than Tim Thomas (based, of course, on a 3 month time frame), and "McQuid" is worse than Andy Sutton.

Statistics are fun.

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Old
05-22-2012, 11:33 AM
  #59
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To EDM:Bergeron, Seidenberg, Thomas, McQuaid, 1st
To BOS:1st, 2nd, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Smid

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Old
05-22-2012, 12:57 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Unorthodox proposal here.

To EDM
P. Bergeron
T. Thomas
Adam McQuaid
2013 1st RD

To BOS
2012 1st overall
2013 1st RD
Gagner
Peckham or prospect
Cap space to go after Suter
I dont think Boston wants to move Bergeron cause hes the leader... but Krecji would be an easy substitute to make. I think Edmonton has a problem with too many goalies after this proposal but i guess khabibulin would be dealt. The 2013 firsts might be a wash cause I would expect Edmonton to improve alot with Thomas in net.

Maybe simplify this down... get rid of the 2013 picks and peckham and gagner and sub out krecji for bergeron.

then deal becomes krecji and thomas and macquaid for the first overall. Id have to do it if I was running the B's. I wouldnt want to move Bergeron though cause I see him as a long term fit in Boston and the pick is too much of a crapshoot with it being a russian and all.

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Old
05-22-2012, 01:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
He's missed a total of 3 games in the past 2 years...pretty sure we can stop using concussions as a way to devalue him. And no, the Bruins wouldn't trade Bergeron for one of the Oilers "big 3." At least not straight up they wouldn't.
And lets face it, every player in the NHL might be one concussion away from being done.

Yes it is possible that given his history it may take less for a career ending concussion to happen to Bergeron than to someone else, but every player is at risk

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Old
05-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiss The Ring View Post
To EDM:Bergeron, Seidenberg, Thomas, McQuaid, 1st
To BOS:1st, 2nd, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Smid
I won't comment on the value of this proposal, I'll just say that I want NO part of Ales Hemsky in Boston. He holds zero value, and with a new $5m per contract would have to be considered a salary dump.

So 1st overall, 31st overall, a struggling prospect, a salary dump, and decent but overpaid Smid. No thanks

Seidenberg > Smid
Bergeron will retire a Bruin

If Boston has an outside chance of signing Parise or Suter (unlikely), I'd gladly flip Edmonton Tim Thomas for 31st overall + MPS. Boston has no use for Hemsky or Smid.

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Old
05-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #63
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I would love to get Bergeron to EDM, but if not him then I would be happy having Krejci as my number 2 centreman. The deal has a bit too much to it but obviously something involving the 1st over all pick.

Hell if I could get Krejci for Gagner, Hemsky and prospect I would over pay for that. Could you imagen our lines then.
PRV; RNH, Eberle
Hall; Krejci; YaK
Even without trading
Hall; RNH; Eberle
Yak; Gagner; Hemsky
That is two legit scoring lines.

BOS would look very good also
Lucic; Bergeron; Horton
Seguin; Gagner; Hemsky

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Old
05-22-2012, 01:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
I would love to get Bergeron to EDM, but if not him then I would be happy having Krejci as my number 2 centreman. The deal has a bit too much to it but obviously something involving the 1st over all pick.

Hell if I could get Krejci for Gagner, Hemsky and prospect I would over pay for that. Could you imagen our lines then.
PRV; RNH, Eberle
Hall; Krejci; YaK
Even without trading
Hall; RNH; Eberle
Yak; Gagner; Hemsky
That is two legit scoring lines.

BOS would look very good also
Lucic; Bergeron; Horton
Seguin; Gagner; Hemsky
Wow! So you'd get Krejci AND keep the 1st overall???

That Boston line-up looks terrible. Especially the 2nd line center and our RW's.

So Boston down grades at center from Krejci to Gagner,, and the consolation prize is Glass Hemsky? Hemsky is a salary dump, he holds no value.

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Old
05-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Are we really comparing Sam Gagner to Patrice Bergeron?

Slow day here huh
Did you also miss how Dubnyk is a top ten goalie and Thomas is a back up? This guy is a real gem.

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05-22-2012, 01:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Calories View Post
fair enough. I thought Bergeron was older than he was but to say there is no one on the oilers they would trade him for is laughable. He is important to the Bruins but they would trade him in an instant for one of our big 3. Plus he is one concussion away from being done.
No the Bruins would not trade him for any of the Oilers top 3. Again that's not to say your top 3 isn't exceptional. It just shows how important Bergeron is to the Bruins. At least in the eyes of Bruins fans.

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05-22-2012, 02:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kiss The Ring View Post
To EDM:Bergeron, Seidenberg, Thomas, McQuaid, 1st
To BOS:1st, 2nd, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Smid
Huge no from Boston.

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Old
05-22-2012, 02:46 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Last 4 Years:
Bergeron Age 27
298 GM 71G 141A 212P .71PPG

Gagner age 23
287GM 64G 107A 171P .61PPG

Not willing to pay twice the salary for 1
more point every ten games.
Giving up a player just coming out of core strength development.

Since Jan.
Tim Thomas 5'11" 208LB 38YR
1991 MIN--28.1 Shots/gm--2.65GA --.906 SV%
19W 13L 1OTL .591 win%

Dubnyk 6'5" 195LB 26YR

1822 min--31.0 shots/GM--2.47GA--.920 SV%
16W 11L 3OTL .583 Win%

Not even close who is the starter.
An old short goalie with a .905 Sv% with A 5M Cap.
Do you think we are TOR?

Mcquaid-Peckahm
Mcquid would be a depth Dman for a shutdown role. Currently signed Sutton w/ Better # for our 6-7 position.

so what we got is:
the #1 overall in 2012
our #1 in 2013
A top 10 Goalie since Jan.

For Bos #1 in 2013
A back-up goalie since Jan.

I trying to think of a worse Proposal.


XXX-RNH-Eberle
HALL-Gagner-Hemsky
MP-Horc-XXX
Belanger-XXX-Jones
Eager

Smid-Petry
XXX-Schultz
Whitney-XXX
Sutton-Potter

Dubnyk
XXX


I don't even know what to say. There's no logical way a person can actually think like this........

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Old
05-22-2012, 04:26 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
So...Sam Gagner and Patrice Bergeron are basically the same player, Dubnyk is better than Tim Thomas (based, of course, on a 3 month time frame), and "McQuid" is worse than Andy Sutton.

Statistics are fun.
Is that what you took from that.
Really!

Begeron is good for 8 more points than gagner right Know.
A player with head injury history.
A Cap hit of 5M versus 2.5-3m
So 2-2.5M for 8 more points. LOL Really.
I know he faces 2nd and 1st comp.
But 2.5M for 8pts and a role he will not play on the oilers.
Silly to think of roles on a team.

Dubnyk what 12 years younger than thomas.
It is silly of me to think that a 38 yr old Goalie with a high volume of play would start to decline. LOL.
Thomas has allways been a reflex goalie. Can you imagine thinking like this.

Dubnyk's segmented progression over the last two years is:
.908Sv%
.914 SV%
.920 SV%

What are the odds a 6'5' Goalie taken in the 1st round will improve. I hear there is no logical way to think that could happen. LOL.

Mcquaid worse than sutton?
Not what was said.
Sutton already signed for a 6-7 Role

with Smid -Petry having the 11th best GA when paired together for tough comp D pairs.

We have an Oiler depth structure.
Smid-Petry
XXX-Schultz
Whitney-XXX
Sutton-Potter

With Sutton a top 50 PK dman Available for the #6 -7 role.
McQuaid might IMPROVE the D. But he will be set at #6 for the next three years.
Klefbom is coming to fill that role in 2013-14.

Yes lets trade for a player that will be replaced in a year. by a WJC allstar.
but hey what does that mean: WJC Allstar
Buwmeester, Colaiacovo, Pitkanen, Phanuef, Suter, Bourdon, J. Johnson, Letang, E. Johnson, Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, Subban, Pietrangelo, Carlson, Ellis, Orlov, Gormeley, Klefbom.
Clearly a meaningless list.


We need a top pairing Dman to slot with Schultz a former top pairing Dman. Gives us depth and protection against injuries. we will have 5 Dmen who handled tough comp When healthy.

Smid, Petry, XXX, Schultz, Whitney.

So what you said was exactly what I was thinking.


Last edited by oilerbear: 05-22-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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Old
05-22-2012, 05:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Is that what you took from that.
Really!

Begeron is good for 8 more points than gagner right Know.
A player with head injury history.
A Cap hit of 5M versus 2.5-3m
So 2-2.5M for 8 more points. LOL Really.
I know he faces 2nd and 1st comp.
But 2.5M for 8pts and a role he will not play on the oilers.
Silly to think of roles on a team.

Dubnyk what 12 years younger than thomas.
It is silly of me to think that a 38 yr old Goalie with a high volume of play would start to decline. LOL.
Thomas has allways been a reflex goalie. Can you imagine thinking like this.

Dubnyk's segmented progression over the last two years is:
.908Sv%
.914 SV%
.920 SV%

What are the odds a 6'5' Goalie taken in the 1st round will improve. I hear there is no logical way to think that could happen. LOL.

Mcquaid worse than sutton?
Not what was said.
Sutton already signed for a 6-7 Role

with Smid -Petry having the 11th best GA when paired together for tough comp D pairs.

We have an Oiler depth structure.
Smid-Petry
XXX-Schultz
Whitney-XXX
Sutton-Potter

With Sutton a top 50 PK dman Available for the #6 -7 role.
McQuaid might IMPROVE the D. But he will be set at #6 for the next three years.
Klefbom is coming to fill that role in 2013-14.

Yes lets trade for a player that will be replaced in a year. by a WJC allstar.
but hey what does that mean: WJC Allstar
Buwmeester, Colaiacovo, Pitkanen, Phanuef, Suter, Bourdon, J. Johnson, Letang, E. Johnson, Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, Subban, Pietrangelo, Carlson, Ellis, Orlov, Gormeley, Klefbom.
Clearly a meaningless list.


We need a top pairing Dman to slot with Schultz a former top pairing Dman. Gives us depth and protection against injuries. we will have 5 Dmen who handled tough comp When healthy.

Smid, Petry, XXX, Schultz, Whitney.

So what you said was exactly what I was thinking.
LOL. This is just epic fail

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Old
05-22-2012, 05:03 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
He's missed a total of 3 games in the past 2 years...pretty sure we can stop using concussions as a way to devalue him. And no, the Bruins wouldn't trade Bergeron for one of the Oilers "big 3." At least not straight up they wouldn't.
The bottom line I guess I am trying to make is that the Oilers are rebuilding and are in year 3 of that rebuild. It makes no sense whatsoever to trade the 2012 first overall and our 2013 first round for any player that is not young , cheap and great to elite. That is the nature of top 5 picks in this league. If Boston and Edmonton were to make a trade involving our high draft picks then young cheap, and controllable talent would have to be coming back and IMO the only players on the Bruins who fits that bill are Marchand, Lucic, Seguin and Hamilton. We don't need Rask:; and Bergeron, who is very good, probably has a salary that just doesn't fit into our payroll going forward with all the extensions we will be bucking up to pay in the next few years. Every fan always overvalues their players and prospects and I guess I am no different.

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05-22-2012, 05:07 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiss The Ring View Post
To EDM:Bergeron, Seidenberg, Thomas, McQuaid, 1st
To BOS:1st, 2nd, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Smid
Are you High? You could at least buy the Bruins some dinner before you rip their pants off and have your way with them.

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Old
05-22-2012, 05:12 PM
  #73
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do you mean to say that you would expect to get both Hall AND Yakupov for just one of Lucic and Hamilton or both? As much as I like Lucic and I agree that he can be a game changer and he has lots of time to grow and refine his game, I found him to be really ineffectual in the playoffs and for some reason he disappears for long stretches at a time. A guy like him should be able to physically dominate every time he is on the ice but he doesn't. But that is just my opinion.

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Old
05-22-2012, 05:22 PM
  #74
nmbr_24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Last 4 Years:
Bergeron Age 27
298 GM 71G 141A 212P .71PPG

Gagner age 23
287GM 64G 107A 171P .61PPG

Not willing to pay twice the salary for 1
more point every ten games.
Giving up a player just coming out of core strength development.

Since Jan.
Tim Thomas 5'11" 208LB 38YR
1991 MIN--28.1 Shots/gm--2.65GA --.906 SV%
19W 13L 1OTL .591 win%

Dubnyk 6'5" 195LB 26YR

1822 min--31.0 shots/GM--2.47GA--.920 SV%
16W 11L 3OTL .583 Win%

Not even close who is the starter.
An old short goalie with a .905 Sv% with A 5M Cap.
Do you think we are TOR?

Mcquaid-Peckahm
Mcquid would be a depth Dman for a shutdown role. Currently signed Sutton w/ Better # for our 6-7 position.

so what we got is:
the #1 overall in 2012
our #1 in 2013
A top 10 Goalie since Jan.

For Bos #1 in 2013
A back-up goalie since Jan.

I trying to think of a worse Proposal.


XXX-RNH-Eberle
HALL-Gagner-Hemsky
MP-Horc-XXX
Belanger-XXX-Jones
Eager

Smid-Petry
XXX-Schultz
Whitney-XXX
Sutton-Potter

Dubnyk
XXX
All I have to say is that if you think the only difference between Gagner and Bergeron is one point every 10 games and that Dubnyk would be the starter over Thomas, well, I think you just might be a homer to the extreme.

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05-22-2012, 06:15 PM
  #75
BoldNewLettuce
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i'd honestly pass on thomas.

Damn good goalie....literally bat**** crazy.

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