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The Nash Thread II (all things Nash here)

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Old
05-21-2012, 02:52 PM
  #26
RDriesenUD
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Was just reading the trade board and the idea of Krejci, Thomas, 1st for Nash was brought up. The deal here (Krejci+Rask) is one I'd definitely take, but I'm wondering what the opinion is on the other offer. Does Thomas+1st=Rask? Personally, Id want a nice prospect along with that, because it is a late 1st and Thomas may only have 2 years left in him. Not necessarily Dougie Hamilton, but maybe someone like Khoklachek? Not too familiar with the Bruins' prospect pool...
Nope. Thomas should not be a part of a Nash trade. If he is, I am asking for Hamilton, +.

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05-21-2012, 02:54 PM
  #27
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Gotta be honest the more I hear the more this Boston story intrigues me. I've always felt Boston was the best place to trade nash there was just little incentive for Boston to pay a price we wanted. Boston has the pieces to make a deal and they are young Seguin 20, Lucic 23, Rask 24, Hamilton 18, etc. Now with Horton out with his second concussion in two seasons and a demonstrated inability to score without him the Bruins really are looking like they need a scorer and Nash is about as perfect a Bruin player as you could find.

I think its gonna come down to the Leafs and Bruins. San Jose isn't willing to ante up with the assets we want (Couture/Vlasic). The Rangers are to deep in the playoffs to pay the price for Nash, and the price for trading Nash in our division would be astronomical. Carolina could make a play if they swing and miss on Parise, but other than them I don't see anyone who could make a serious challenge to what the Leafs or Bruins could offer.

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05-21-2012, 03:00 PM
  #28
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Its more appealing, It actually closes the gap with the Boston deal because that while Rask COULD provide steady tender play for a decade, Niemi WOULD provide it immediately for a few seasons. I do like what seems to be a more concerted effort to focus the "leadership group" around US-born players.

If this hypothetical deal included the 1st rounder, I'd take San Jose's offer over Bostons.
The highlighted idea is dumb. Geez, Pittsburgh we're not interested in Crosbly cuz he's from Canada;nope, not Malkin either-he's from Russia. (Not that they would be offered but just to point out how suspect your premise is). And if getting Johnson in a trade makes you draw that conclusion I'm sure Mayor can explain why one swallow doesn't make spring(or a well, nevermind). And if that is the case why was Prospal signed to the one year deal with a promise of a place in the organization? I think you missed the boat here.

And I'm not sure i get the "could" and "would" difference between Rask & Niemi. True Niemi has more starts under his NHL belt but Rask has proven to be very good when given the opportunity. And neither has ever played behind as vaunted a defense as the Blue Jackets possess.

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05-21-2012, 03:35 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
And I'm not sure i get the "could" and "would" difference between Rask & Niemi. True Niemi has more starts under his NHL belt but Rask has proven to be very good when given the opportunity. And neither has ever played behind as vaunted a defense as the Blue Jackets possess.
Therein lies the issue, particularly for Rask, we don't know what he's capable of without the protection of big Z and Claude Julien's system. Niemi is average to good he's been behind good and bad D (though not as bad as ours has been, though I don't know where the new group is going to rank in the league tbh.) Rask could be great and likely will be the best we've ever had, but he could be the product of the system in Boston, all signs point to being a great tender but we've been burned on that before (cough: every draft pick :cough).

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05-21-2012, 03:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The highlighted idea is dumb.
I agree, Espen, I don't give a damn where they're from, as long as they can play the game! Leadership is a personal quality and not related to nationality in any way.

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05-21-2012, 05:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Therein lies the issue, particularly for Rask, we don't know what he's capable of without the protection of big Z and Claude Julien's system. Niemi is average to good he's been behind good and bad D (though not as bad as ours has been, though I don't know where the new group is going to rank in the league tbh.) Rask could be great and likely will be the best we've ever had, but he could be the product of the system in Boston, all signs point to being a great tender but we've been burned on that before (cough: every draft pick :cough).
I get your logic- sort of. Forget a trade. Hockey God says "Blue Jackets you have suffered long enough. Take your pick of Rask or Niemi. Its a free shot" Who do you take?

I'd take Rask.

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05-21-2012, 05:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I get your logic- sort of. Forget a trade. Hockey God says "Blue Jackets you have suffered long enough. Take your pick of Rask or Niemi. Its a free shot" Who do you take?

I'd take Rask.
I'd take Rask as well. I think I'm just letting my inherent distrust of goalies taint my judgement. I mean goalies who have been good from the beginning to the end of their careers are rare, now there really is only a few that have been consistently great King Henrik, Rinne, Brodeur, Miller.

I'd much rather see us get forward and D talent for nash than a goaltender+ The valuation of goalies is so complicated that its easy to get the wrong end of the bargain.

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05-21-2012, 05:19 PM
  #33
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What, Marc Denis, Pazzie and Mase scare you off?

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Old
05-21-2012, 06:57 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Was just reading the trade board and the idea of Krejci, Thomas, 1st for Nash was brought up. The deal here (Krejci+Rask) is one I'd definitely take, but I'm wondering what the opinion is on the other offer. Does Thomas+1st=Rask? Personally, Id want a nice prospect along with that, because it is a late 1st and Thomas may only have 2 years left in him. Not necessarily Dougie Hamilton, but maybe someone like Khoklachek? Not too familiar with the Bruins' prospect pool...
Again, I think you can get Thomas for a lesser asset, so if he's included in the deal, I'd almost rather include that lesser asset with Nash and get something else of value from Boston to make it 4 assets coming back our way. By all indications, there is no way they part with Hamilton.

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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The highlighted idea is dumb. Geez, Pittsburgh we're not interested in Crosbly cuz he's from Canada;nope, not Malkin either-he's from Russia. (Not that they would be offered but just to point out how suspect your premise is). And if getting Johnson in a trade makes you draw that conclusion I'm sure Mayor can explain why one swallow doesn't make spring(or a well, nevermind). And if that is the case why was Prospal signed to the one year deal with a promise of a place in the organization? I think you missed the boat here.
Do I think we should only pick up Americans? No. But I do think there is a value to having a culture and that can be easier when you have a critical mass of guys from the same geographical location. Think of the 90's Wings and Russians, the late 90's Pens and Russians, or, more recently, the Wings and their various Swedes.

Now, part of the reason it is useful with foreign players is to create a more comfortable atmosphere and obviously Americans don't have that same obstacle playing in Columbus. But I do think there is something to be said for creating a blue collar and yes, dare I say, American, culture in the locker room. And, yes, it is one reason I'd be all in favor of taking Pavelski. But, if the choice is Crosby or Pavelski, I'm still taking Crosby. Assuming his concussion issues are resolved.

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05-21-2012, 10:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Do I think we should only pick up Americans? No. But I do think there is a value to having a culture and that can be easier when you have a critical mass of guys from the same geographical location. Think of the 90's Wings and Russians, the late 90's Pens and Russians, or, more recently, the Wings and their various Swedes.

Now, part of the reason it is useful with foreign players is to create a more comfortable atmosphere and obviously Americans don't have that same obstacle playing in Columbus. But I do think there is something to be said for creating a blue collar and yes, dare I say, American, culture in the locker room. And, yes, it is one reason I'd be all in favor of taking Pavelski. But, if the choice is Crosby or Pavelski, I'm still taking Crosby. Assuming his concussion issues are resolved.
But most European players from the same country would have come up through a similar type of system. American players could have taken several different paths to get where they ended up, and that's to say nothing of the cultural differences from region to region (although hockey regions in the US are more homogenized than, say, football). So there's not necessarily a standardization of any type; there's no "American school of hockey".

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05-21-2012, 11:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
But most European players from the same country would have come up through a similar type of system. American players could have taken several different paths to get where they ended up, and that's to say nothing of the cultural differences from region to region (although hockey regions in the US are more homogenized than, say, football). So there's not necessarily a standardization of any type; there's no "American school of hockey".
Well, to be fair, many of those same Americans all grew up an afternoon's drive away from Lake Michigan.

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05-21-2012, 11:34 PM
  #37
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Well, to be fair, many of those same Americans all grew up an afternoon's drive away from Lake Michigan.
Well, be that as it may, that simply means that we have a nice Midwestern flair, with no accents and a tendency to end sentences in prepositions.

Just looking at the Americans currently on the roster:
Jack Johnson went the USNTDP route, and enrolled at Michigan.
Jared Boll went from the USHL to the OHL.
Mark Letestu isn't American, but he played at Western Michigan after the AJHL.
James Wisniewski went from the NAHL to the OHL.
Cam Atkinson went from high school to Boston College, with a brief stint in a county jail in between.

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05-22-2012, 12:10 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Well, be that as it may, that simply means that we have a nice Midwestern flair, with no accents and a tendency to end sentences in prepositions.

Just looking at the Americans currently on the roster:
Jack Johnson went the USNTDP route, and enrolled at Michigan.
Jared Boll went from the USHL to the OHL.
Mark Letestu isn't American, but he played at Western Michigan after the AJHL.
James Wisniewski went from the NAHL to the OHL.
Cam Atkinson went from high school to Boston College, with a brief stint in a county jail in between.
One could argue that John Moore should also be on the list. USHL to OHL.

And if you're listing Atkinson (who's outside of the Lake Michigan area mentioned), you might as well also mention Umberger.


Last edited by Viqsi: 05-22-2012 at 12:16 AM.
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05-22-2012, 09:11 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
But most European players from the same country would have come up through a similar type of system. American players could have taken several different paths to get where they ended up, and that's to say nothing of the cultural differences from region to region (although hockey regions in the US are more homogenized than, say, football). So there's not necessarily a standardization of any type; there's no "American school of hockey".
I think you are missing the point. There is still an American culture--hard work, anyone can succeed, "USA, USA!", etc.

There's a value in that regardless of systems...and perhaps exactly because in America we are less focused on systems and more focused on success.

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05-22-2012, 09:56 AM
  #40
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I think you are missing the point. There is still an American culture--hard work, anyone can succeed, "USA, USA!", etc.

There's a value in that regardless of systems...and perhaps exactly because in America we are less focused on systems and more focused on success.
Interesting that this thread has taken this route. Not sure what it has to do with Nash, but your statement was more relevant 10 or 20 years ago. Really hard to make these comments so shortly after Occupy this last year. That's all I'm going to say on this topic, because it's has nothing to do with hockey. But I just wanted to say, I don't think it's as accurate as it used to be.

I'm 99% sure these conversation hasn't went on in Nationwide, so I doubt any of this line of thinking is being discussed. I doubt much of this would be considered in a Nash trade.

Maybe a resolution to this will come up in a month.

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05-22-2012, 09:58 AM
  #41
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Isn't this the Nash thread?

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05-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #42
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Isn't this the Nash thread?
When has staying on-topic ever stopped HFBoards?

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05-22-2012, 10:12 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I think you are missing the point. There is still an American culture--hard work, anyone can succeed, "USA, USA!", etc.

There's a value in that regardless of systems...and perhaps exactly because in America we are less focused on systems and more focused on success.
It also makes it easier for the locals that don't follow this team regularly to identify with the organization.

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05-22-2012, 10:14 AM
  #44
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Isn't this the Nash thread?
Let's keep this in mind moving forward, folks. Thank you.

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05-22-2012, 11:17 AM
  #45
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Just looking back to last year, the Flyers traded for Bryzgalov in the middle of the Cup Finals and Carter was traded to CBJ a day or 2 before the draft. (Assuming Nash will be traded) Would the CBJ attempt to deal Nash before the draft to possibly acquire a pick in addition to NHL talent, or will they wait until free agency to start up?

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05-22-2012, 01:25 PM
  #46
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Just looking back to last year, the Flyers traded for Bryzgalov in the middle of the Cup Finals and Carter was traded to CBJ a day or 2 before the draft. (Assuming Nash will be traded) Would the CBJ attempt to deal Nash before the draft to possibly acquire a pick in addition to NHL talent, or will they wait until free agency to start up?
I find it highly unlikely they wait until after the draft to move Nash. Granted they'll need the "right" offer to pull the trigger but it's been mentioned in several places that "a 1st" would be part of the deal. Granted that doesn't restrict it to 2012 but it seems most likely. Just my opinion but if the deal doesn't happen before the draft I could see this as a deadline deal again next year. Depends on how Nash projects himself (disruptive or still "OK")

Depending on the pieces I would hope we could land what we need in assets and get a 2013 1st. I say this more because depending how the 1st round goes this year we could use the LA option if there is someone there we really value (Dansk? KoeKoek?) and still have two picks in the 1st next year.

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05-22-2012, 01:40 PM
  #47
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I would hope that Howson is working the phones right now with teams not still (or ever) in the playoffs (SJ,Toronto,Boston,). These things aren't going to come together from scratch on the draft floor since it is very likely that a draft choice will be involved in the deal.

The trade could happen anytime. Some teams may be targeting Parise but will pursue Nash if they don't get him. Lots of variables. Stay tuned.

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05-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #48
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I think a deal for Nash either gets done pre-draft or after Parise signs. Teams who don't think they will get Parise (Toronto in particular) will push hard pre-draft to get a deal done while those who think they can sign Parise will likely wait until he's off the board to go after Nash seeing as a team like Boston can get Parise at "only" the expense of cap space and $.

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05-22-2012, 01:56 PM
  #49
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The trade could happen anytime. Some teams may be targeting Parise but will pursue Nash if they don't get him. Lots of variables. Stay tuned.
Doesn't the trade deadline end sometime after the playoffs and before the draft? Meaning I don't think a trade could happen anytime.

As far as talking goes. I wouldn't expect a move until a couple of days before the draft at the earliest, unless a deal just blows them out of the water.

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05-22-2012, 02:01 PM
  #50
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Whatever happens and when, I want Nash out of here. If we are trying to create a new "culture", that requires (and I emphasize the word "requires") a new captain. Having watched Parisse, Callahan, Doan and Brown lead their teams by showing hard work and effort at every critical moment, I think it would be very damaging to the "new culture" having Nash skating around the ice at the 50% effort level 60% of the time.
And we do not need as a distraction the drama that would surround forcing Nash to surrender the "C" while he is still playing for the team.

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