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Flames, Jackets Draft Day Trade:

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Old
05-22-2012, 09:28 AM
  #26
Xoggz22
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Me neither. Nash is extremely overrated. He plays even less defense than Iginla does. The last thing we need is another career loser who doesn't buy into a system on this team.
Sounds exactly like Nash. I can understand you don't like the CBJ but don't spout off about things you clearly have no clue about. Don't like Nash, fine. Think the contract is bad, fine. He's far from a defensive liability and Nash has done everything asked in Columbus and then some. He's not a floater, used to play on the PK before Arniel came to town. Ask Hitchcock who his best PK guy was when he was here. CBJ had one decent year with a goaltender and team who played well beyond their capability. Otherwise there has been little support for a player like Nash.

As for the proposal, meh. I can see why Calgary wouldn't want to do this but don't think it's brutal as some here believe.

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05-22-2012, 10:27 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Gary83 View Post
Wouldn't move Sven straight up for Nash. Actually, wouldn't move any of the pieces you listed straight up for Nash.

This is just a bad, bad proposal.

Shame on you.
This.

/thread.

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05-22-2012, 02:34 PM
  #28
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Sounds exactly like Nash. I can understand you don't like the CBJ but don't spout off about things you clearly have no clue about. Don't like Nash, fine. Think the contract is bad, fine. He's far from a defensive liability and Nash has done everything asked in Columbus and then some. He's not a floater, used to play on the PK before Arniel came to town. Ask Hitchcock who his best PK guy was when he was here. CBJ had one decent year with a goaltender and team who played well beyond their capability. Otherwise there has been little support for a player like Nash.

As for the proposal, meh. I can see why Calgary wouldn't want to do this but don't think it's brutal as some here believe.
I do like Columbus. Nash has never played any defense at all. He's extremely one dimensional. Everyone everywhere knows it. He is absolutely a floater/cherry picker and the one time he did play defense was under Hitch, where his team actually had moderate success. Then he stopped and Hitch was fired and the team stopped succeeding. He reminds me a lot of Iginla. Great guy, great ambassador, but a selfish hockey player.

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05-22-2012, 02:40 PM
  #29
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I don't want Nash.

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Old
05-22-2012, 02:42 PM
  #30
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Change columbus pick to 1st round or add in Johansen than have the option to switch 1st rounders next year. Than Calgary might consider it. Baertchi is Calgary's best prospect since Iginla and might be a bigger piece to Calgary's success than Nash.

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05-22-2012, 02:42 PM
  #31
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Sven is their best prospect. This is one of the worst proposals ever seen for Nash.

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Old
05-22-2012, 02:44 PM
  #32
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To Calgary
Nash
Holden
2nd overall/ Johansen
1st pick next year (If lower than CGY)

To Columbus
Baertchi
Bouwmeester
1st pick this year (14th overall)
1st pick next year ( if higher than CGY)
B level prospect

Baertchi for 2nd overall/ Johansen
Bouwmeester+ 14overall+B prospect. for nash+ Holden
Option of switching 1st pick for next year (Calgary could get another top 5 pick)

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05-22-2012, 02:48 PM
  #33
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Nash may very well get in return a prospect like Baertschi and more, but it won't be from the Flames and the current position we are in.

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Old
05-22-2012, 02:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I do like Columbus. Nash has never played any defense at all. He's extremely one dimensional. Everyone everywhere knows it. He is absolutely a floater/cherry picker and the one time he did play defense was under Hitch, where his team actually had moderate success. Then he stopped and Hitch was fired and the team stopped succeeding. He reminds me a lot of Iginla. Great guy, great ambassador, but a selfish hockey player.
I think there's a contradiction in here.

Part of the issue with your presumption here is that Nash indeed didn't bother with defense until Hitch came here and taught him how. When Arniel came in, he, for some insane reason, decided to stop using Nash in defensive situations so as to "reduce his minutes" or something like that. It was crazy and it was stupid and it drove the entire fanbase quite mad.

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05-22-2012, 03:00 PM
  #35
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I think there's a contradiction in here.

Part of the issue with your presumption here is that Nash indeed didn't bother with defense until Hitch came here and taught him how. When Arniel came in, he, for some insane reason, decided to stop using Nash in defensive situations so as to "reduce his minutes" or something like that. It was crazy and it was stupid and it drove the entire fanbase quite mad.
I doubt Arniel said, "Hey Rick, I want you to stay above our blueline at all times." He didn't use him in defensive situations because he doesn't play defense. Much like Hunter used Ovechkin in only offensive situations because he only plays offense. It's not a contradiction, it's acknowledging the facts. He played defense for Hitch, hasn't for anyone else. He also puts up lower numbers than you'd expect from a purely offensive player at his cap hit.

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05-22-2012, 03:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I doubt Arniel said, "Hey Rick, I want you to stay above our blueline at all times." He didn't use him in defensive situations because he doesn't play defense. Much like Hunter used Ovechkin in only offensive situations because he only plays offense. It's not a contradiction, it's acknowledging the facts. He played defense for Hitch, hasn't for anyone else. He also puts up lower numbers than you'd expect from a purely offensive player at his cap hit.
Wrong.

Nash played best when playing in defensive situations and big minutes. Arniel was just an idiot.

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05-22-2012, 03:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I doubt Arniel said, "Hey Rick, I want you to stay above our blueline at all times." He didn't use him in defensive situations because he doesn't play defense. Much like Hunter used Ovechkin in only offensive situations because he only plays offense. It's not a contradiction, it's acknowledging the facts. He played defense for Hitch, hasn't for anyone else. He also puts up lower numbers than you'd expect from a purely offensive player at his cap hit.
Given that the "anyone else" amounts to two temps and Scott Arniel, this still does not represent a valid argument.

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #38
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Given that the "anyone else" amounts to two temps and Scott Arniel, this still does not represent a valid argument.
It also applies to all the coaches before Hitch.

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #39
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Just curious, would the Jackets trade Johansen for Bouwmeester?

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:09 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Icebreakers View Post
To Calgary
Nash
Holden
2nd overall/ Johansen
1st pick next year (If lower than CGY)

To Columbus
Baertchi
Bouwmeester
1st pick this year (14th overall)
1st pick next year ( if higher than CGY)
B level prospect

Baertchi for 2nd overall/ Johansen
Bouwmeester+ 14overall+B prospect. for nash+ Holden
Option of switching 1st pick for next year (Calgary could get another top 5 pick)
Anyone?

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:10 PM
  #41
Xoggz22
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I do like Columbus. Nash has never played any defense at all. He's extremely one dimensional. Everyone everywhere knows it. He is absolutely a floater/cherry picker and the one time he did play defense was under Hitch, where his team actually had moderate success. Then he stopped and Hitch was fired and the team stopped succeeding. He reminds me a lot of Iginla. Great guy, great ambassador, but a selfish hockey player.
I guess you're watching different games than I am. Is Nash the best defensive forward in the game? Of course not. Does Nash have games that are less than herculian? Yes, he does. But he is not a floater, nor selfish and he's far from one dimensional. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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05-22-2012, 03:11 PM
  #42
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Wrong.

Nash played best when playing in defensive situations and big minutes. Arniel was just an idiot.
Coaches don't like being fired. Arniel was clearly not an idiot. If you get an NHL job you know more about hockey than anyone named Crede777 or Double Dion does. Arniel won at every level before he coached in Columbus. He initially played Nash in defensive situations and stopped when they were getting lit up doing it. It's not like he never gave him the opportunity. I get that people have an emotional attachment to their stars. I love Iginla, but acknowledge that he is not a good defensive player. It's even more awkward to acknowledge it when the player is such a good person as is the case with Nash and Iginla. But reality is reality. Iginla has done far more in his career than Nash, but it doesn't wash out his liabilities. The same is true of Nash.

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:12 PM
  #43
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
I guess you're watching different games than I am. Is Nash the best defensive forward in the game? Of course not. Does Nash have games that are less than herculian? Yes, he does. But he is not a floater, nor selfish and he's far from one dimensional. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
We will yup. He's one of the best goal scorers in the game, just like Iginla is. But he does float IMO and in most people's opinions outside of Columbus.

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:15 PM
  #44
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Just curious, would the Jackets trade Johansen for Bouwmeester?
No. Columbus has a much greater need for centers than defensemen at this point. Especially 19 year olds that are expected to develop into top 6 centers. We're already thin up the middle.

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:19 PM
  #45
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
No. Columbus has a much greater need for centers than defensemen at this point. Especially 19 year olds that are expected to develop into top 6 centers. We're already thin up the middle.
Agreed. You don't move that guy, you build around him, he may or may not be a franchise type piece, but he's a lock to be at minimum a 2nd line center. Much like we feel about taking Nash and giving up Sven.

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Old
05-22-2012, 03:21 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
We will yup. He's one of the best goal scorers in the game, just like Iginla is. But he does float IMO and in most people's opinions outside of Columbus.
There are plenty of CBJ fans who think he floats. They are also wrong.


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Old
05-22-2012, 06:43 PM
  #47
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Anyone?
Not as bad as the OP (what could be) but still no. Unless we are getting a young cornerstone for the franchise than I wouldn't move Baertchi. I also want no part of Nash he is a good player but not that good.

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Old
05-22-2012, 07:18 PM
  #48
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Just curious, would the Jackets trade Johansen for Bouwmeester?
Lol. That would never happen.

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Old
05-22-2012, 08:00 PM
  #49
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05-22-2012, 10:42 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
It also applies to all the coaches before Hitch.
Seeing as though Hitch came in with the objective to teach him how to play defense, talking about those is like talking about what he did in his draft year or something. I know this may come as a great, incredible shock, but players evolve over time and learn new skills as new coaches come in. Really!

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