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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Flames, Jackets Draft Day Trade:

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:46 AM
  #51
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Seeing as though Hitch came in with the objective to teach him how to play defense, talking about those is like talking about what he did in his draft year or something. I know this may come as a great, incredible shock, but players evolve over time and learn new skills as new coaches come in. Really!
So he played defense for a year and a half in his career, isn't playing defense presently but the 13% of his career he actually did play it decently is the only part that counts? I must be missing something...

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05-23-2012, 01:46 AM
  #52
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Coaches don't like being fired. Arniel was clearly not an idiot. If you get an NHL job you know more about hockey than anyone named Crede777 or Double Dion does. Arniel won at every level before he coached in Columbus. He initially played Nash in defensive situations and stopped when they were getting lit up doing it. It's not like he never gave him the opportunity. I get that people have an emotional attachment to their stars. I love Iginla, but acknowledge that he is not a good defensive player. It's even more awkward to acknowledge it when the player is such a good person as is the case with Nash and Iginla. But reality is reality. Iginla has done far more in his career than Nash, but it doesn't wash out his liabilities. The same is true of Nash.
Knowing more about hockey doesn't make anyone a good hockey coach, nor does knowing more about football make anyone a good football coach, nor does knowing more about a company make one a good boss.

Arniel never played Nash in defensive situations. One of the first things that he said upon taking the job was that Nash's days on the PK were over because he was too valuable to waste killing penalties...the PK percentage promptly plummeted. When Todd Richards took over, one of the first things he did was start putting Nash out on the PK, and the percentage surged.

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05-23-2012, 01:49 AM
  #53
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Just curious, would the Jackets trade Johansen for Bouwmeester?
The counter to this would be asking if Calgary would deal Sven Baertschi for one of James Wisniewski or Jack Johnson. Actually, neither of those two is really comparable, because Bouwmeester makes more than both, is older than both, and hasn't produced much offensively since he was in Florida. They're not comparable in terms of playing style, but in terms of overall caliber they're closer.

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05-23-2012, 02:26 AM
  #54
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The counter to this would be asking if Calgary would deal Sven Baertschi for one of James Wisniewski or Jack Johnson. Actually, neither of those two is really comparable, because Bouwmeester makes more than both, is older than both, and hasn't produced much offensively since he was in Florida. They're not comparable in terms of playing style, but in terms of overall caliber they're closer.
Not really, no. (Atleast the Wizniewski counter..)

Rick Nash makes even more than Bouwmeester does, and has been similarly underwhelming offensively (as in underachieving annually). It has been three season's in a row where Nash has failed to hit 70 points. You could attribute that to playing with poor linemates, but the same could be said for Bouwmeester.

Wizniewski's contract is also less attractive then Bouwmeester's, as he does not have the ability to play as big of a role that Jay does and the term is longer.

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05-23-2012, 02:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Not really, no. (Atleast the Wizniewski counter..)

Rick Nash makes even more than Bouwmeester does, and has been similarly underwhelming offensively (as in underachieving annually). It has been three season's in a row where Nash has failed to hit 70 points. You could attribute that to playing with poor linemates, but the same could be said for Bouwmeester.

Wizniewski's contract is also less attractive then Bouwmeester's, as he does not have the ability to play as big of a role that Jay does and the term is longer.
Hang on, I need to back up and see where I brought Rick Nash's name into this. Oh, nowhere? Carry on.

Let me see if I have this straight. Bouwmeester's last three years in Florida, he had 12, 15, and 15 goals. In Calgary, he had 3, 4, and 5. Well, on the plus side, he's trending upward; maybe he'll get back to 15 by the time Rick Dipietro's contract expires.

Bouwmeester's last year as a Panther had Bryan McCabe back there. Outside of that lone season with another offensive defenseman, it was those modern-day Coffey clones Steve Montador, Ruslan Salei, and Bryan Allen wearing red and navy. Yet in Calgary, logging 26 minutes a game with a substantially better supporting cast, his offensive output has plummeted. He's not any better than what he was in Florida in his own end; trust me, I'm one of the few people who made a point of watching Panthers games whenever I had the chance.

Hence, the comparison stands and the question remains. Would either one of Columbus or Calgary trade their top prospect overall for a 27- to 29- year-old defenseman who's signed to a multiyear deal and is borderline All-Star caliber in his best years, which may or may not have already happened? Obviously, that's rhetorical...we both know the answer.

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05-23-2012, 03:42 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Hang on, I need to back up and see where I brought Rick Nash's name into this. Oh, nowhere? Carry on.

Let me see if I have this straight. Bouwmeester's last three years in Florida, he had 12, 15, and 15 goals. In Calgary, he had 3, 4, and 5. Well, on the plus side, he's trending upward; maybe he'll get back to 15 by the time Rick Dipietro's contract expires.

Bouwmeester's last year as a Panther had Bryan McCabe back there. Outside of that lone season with another offensive defenseman, it was those modern-day Coffey clones Steve Montador, Ruslan Salei, and Bryan Allen wearing red and navy. Yet in Calgary, logging 26 minutes a game with a substantially better supporting cast, his offensive output has plummeted. He's not any better than what he was in Florida in his own end; trust me, I'm one of the few people who made a point of watching Panthers games whenever I had the chance.

Hence, the comparison stands and the question remains. Would either one of Columbus or Calgary trade their top prospect overall for a 27- to 29- year-old defenseman who's signed to a multiyear deal and is borderline All-Star caliber in his best years, which may or may not have already happened? Obviously, that's rhetorical...we both know the answer.
Usually I respect your posts, but you seem to completely ignore (or have no idea) how Bouwmeester has been played in Calgary. The moron of a coach didn't even use him on the 1st PP unit and didn't give him freedom to pinch. Also the Flames never generated offense off the rush and often relied on the cycle and a dump and chase style, neither are systems that allow for defensemen to put up points. The team also has no one to go to the front of the net to generate screens, which is vital for a player like Bouwmeester to score.

How a player is used and the system in place can affect a players numbers dramatically.

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05-23-2012, 05:35 AM
  #57
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lol, all these people in this thread saying nash is over rated have never really watched columbus games obviously. the guy is a premiere player in the nhl and any gm ready to contend would trade any prospect for him, including baertschi and yakupov and gardiner couture or whoever.

that being said, calgary isnt ready to contend and doesnt have the top end talent in the system beyond baertschi so this will not happen.

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