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Old
05-22-2012, 10:21 PM
  #26
Rexy
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so no 21yr old dman? That's what I thought.
lol I didn't see the dman part. Wow, very specific.

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05-22-2012, 10:23 PM
  #27
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lol I didn't see the dman part. Wow, very specific.
Young dmen are hard to snag in a deal, let alone ones of Leddy's caliber

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05-22-2012, 10:23 PM
  #28
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37pts from a 21yr old dman isn't common, 37pts from a 21 yr old player isn't that big a deal.

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05-22-2012, 10:32 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
...

How man gm's can boast they managed to trade a guy who's currently being healthy scratched on non-playoff teams for a 21yr old dman playing 22min a night and scored 37 pts? BTW, Leddy was the secondary piece in that trade.
I say that because Leddy is a third pairing guy at this point, to be determined if he will ever improve his defensive game enough to be a second pairing guy. He isn't really any more competent in his own zone now than he was at the beginning of the year.

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05-22-2012, 10:35 PM
  #30
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If he was as bad defensively as you make it sound, then q must be an idiot for playing him 22min a night...

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05-22-2012, 10:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
If he was as bad defensively as you make it sound, then q must be an idiot for playing him 22min a night...
I do think Q is an idiot for playing him that much and for using him on the PK as well.

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05-22-2012, 10:40 PM
  #32
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If he was as bad defensively as you make it sound, then q must be an idiot for playing him 22min a night...
Q is an idiot for playing him 22 min a night.

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:55 PM
  #33
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Q is certainly an idiot for having him on any PK

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05-23-2012, 12:55 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
He traded Brandon Bochenski for Kris Versteeg
He traded Matt Elison for Patrick Sharp
He traded...oh, wait, you only wanted one.
tell me 1 more trade, just 1 more that Tallon really won and will be remembered as steal

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05-23-2012, 02:49 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
tell me 1 more trade, just 1 more that Tallon really won and will be remembered as steal
Mark Bell for Martin Havlat?

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Old
05-23-2012, 03:02 AM
  #36
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Mark Bell for Martin Havlat?
beat me to it. Is three trades that are garbage for first liners enough?

At this point I would say the second round pick we got for Rene Borque was a steal!

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05-23-2012, 05:24 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Q is certainly an idiot for having him on any PK
don't disagree with this. All those PK minutes should have been PP minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
beat me to it. Is three trades that are garbage for first liners enough?

At this point I would say the second round pick we got for Rene Borque was a steal!
still no dmen? I said dmen. Trading busts for good players isn't rare, trading busts for 21yr old dmen of leddy's caliber is.

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Old
05-23-2012, 05:45 AM
  #38
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Mark Bell for Martin Havlat?
Bell, who was seen as a solid 2nd Line Player that time with a 2nd Round draft pick & Barinka for Havlat & done Smolinski


hindsight is 20/20 in this case and not really a highway robbery. At the time of the trade, Hawks won it and they still win it, but it's not as Ellis/Sharp and Bochenski/Versteeg or Barker/KJ&Leddy

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Old
05-23-2012, 07:08 AM
  #39
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Very skilled offensive dman who has yet to sniff his potential. Q doesn't do many thing right, but one thing he's been known for (and is good at) is developing young dman and minus the PK minutes, (though it'll help Leddy in the future) I've liked what he's done with Nick. Miles better than Keith was at his age. What's stunning his development a bit (minus the strength, awareness) is a lack of a consistent d-partner which is what helped Keith alot when Seabrook played consistently with him. Needs a bigger, more physical guy to help him.

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05-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #40
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I do think Q is an idiot for playing him that much and for using him on the PK as well.
This post has too much win in it.

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Old
05-23-2012, 09:52 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Bell, who was seen as a solid 2nd Line Player that time with a 2nd Round draft pick & Barinka for Havlat & done Smolinski


hindsight is 20/20 in this case and not really a highway robbery. At the time of the trade, Hawks won it and they still win it, but it's not as Ellis/Sharp and Bochenski/Versteeg or Barker/KJ&Leddy
What point are you trying to make. Tallon was/is a master trader. I don't see how anyone can dispute that.

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05-23-2012, 10:13 AM
  #42
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I just realized something, he's hockey's Jim Hendry.

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Old
05-23-2012, 11:52 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Bell, who was seen as a solid 2nd Line Player that time with a 2nd Round draft pick & Barinka for Havlat & done Smolinski


hindsight is 20/20 in this case and not really a highway robbery. At the time of the trade, Hawks won it and they still win it, but it's not as Ellis/Sharp and Bochenski/Versteeg or Barker/KJ&Leddy
That's what makes it a "steal". Bell turned into a career minor leaguer, Barinka went back overseas while Havlat was a key player for us for three years and Smolinski gave us top six scoring for most of a year before being flipped for a second. Also, for a "done" player playing with an oft injured Havlat and a slew of mediocre top six stopgaps he outscored Bell by 23 points.

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:21 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
What point are you trying to make. Tallon was/is a master trader. I don't see how anyone can dispute that.
Good for him, he made 4 good trades while here, and none since he's been in Florida.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he was horrible at negotiations and ran this team into the ground cap wise before he left.


Bowman > Tallon

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:47 PM
  #45
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Good for him, he made 4 good trades while here, and none since he's been in Florida.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he was horrible at negotiations and ran this team into the ground cap wise before he left.


Bowman > Tallon
no, he made 4 blockbuster steal trades. he made other good trades.

What has Bowman done? Barker for Leddy. Great resume for three years of GM.

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05-23-2012, 12:49 PM
  #46
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Cam Barker was believed to be a solid top 4 (potentially top paring) defenseman who was trapped behind the Hawks depth.

Does that discredit the trade, Bubba?

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05-23-2012, 12:52 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Good for him, he made 4 good trades while here, and none since he's been in Florida.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he was horrible at negotiations and ran this team into the ground cap wise before he left.


Bowman > Tallon
You're saying Bowman is better for what he didn't do. Indecision is worse than wrong decision. Tallon made mistakes but also hit home runs and got a Cup for it pretty quickly. Bowman just sits in the background trying to make the safest moves he can and it results in complete failure. Obviously you want some balance between the two but you definitely are better with the Maverick GM as opposed to the finance major.

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05-23-2012, 01:02 PM
  #48
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lol @ not being able to judge a trade in hindsight. How else do you judge a trade other than how it turned out for each team?

Tallon was a great trader but he also had the freedom to trade a whole lot more. He could deal for projects and young players because our team wasn't competing. Stan has a playoff team and you aren't going to trade for young guys when you're trying to win. The exception is the cap dump trades though.

Plus, his trades are incomplete. Was Patrick Sharp an immediate star when he came over? Nope. Steeger wasn't either.

Jeremy Morin might look like a star in a couple years. Adam Clendening might. Jimmy/Kevin Hayes might. Hell, maybe Stalberg continues to improve and gets 30 goals this year. Or Justin Holl. Maybe Leddy becomes 50+ point defenseman. Maybe Salak turns into a star goalie, ect ect.

We can see how Tallon's trades turned out now but it is too early to crucify Stan for trades. Especially considering he acquired a bunch of young talent that hasn't developed yet.

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05-23-2012, 01:05 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
You're saying Bowman is better for what he didn't do. Indecision is worse than wrong decision. Tallon made mistakes but also hit home runs and got a Cup for it pretty quickly. Bowman just sits in the background trying to make the safest moves he can and it results in complete failure. Obviously you want some balance between the two but you definitely are better with the Maverick GM as opposed to the finance major.
Really? Tallon took over the team for 4 years and then got fired. Stan then won the Cup. At least give Stan as much time as Talon right? Stan has had 2 seasons since winning the Cup so he gets 2 more. Don't want to make the same "mistake" twice, right?

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Old
05-23-2012, 01:12 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Bell, who was seen as a solid 2nd Line Player that time with a 2nd Round draft pick & Barinka for Havlat & done Smolinski


hindsight is 20/20 in this case and not really a highway robbery. At the time of the trade, Hawks won it and they still win it, but it's not as Ellis/Sharp and Bochenski/Versteeg or Barker/KJ&Leddy
I'm not sure if you were a Hawk fan at the time, but when that deal went down it was monumental. It was the biggest acquisition made by the Blackhawks in over a decade. It showed Tallon had the balls to give up a good young player and top prospect to bring in a 1st line player, something the Hawks hadn't had since Daze went down.

It also showed the Blackhawks organization was willing to ice a competitive squad in a way not seen in a long time by giving big money to guys like Havlat and Khabibulin at a time when no one wanted to come to Chicago.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Good for him, he made 4 good trades while here, and none since he's been in Florida.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he was horrible at negotiations and ran this team into the ground cap wise before he left.


Bowman > Tallon
He acquired Campbell and Versteeg for nothing.

It's amazes me that 90% of Hawk fans posting on HF do no even appreciate how long it took for the Hawks to be a competitive team. Tallon played a large role in restructuring the organization and there is no tangible evidence of improvement since his departure.

Bowman has made 1 good trade for a guy who will never be as good as Brian Campbell. Whoop-dee-friggin-doo.

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