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Niemi, Clowe, + 2nd to Tor..

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Old
05-22-2012, 09:46 PM
  #101
mokspeed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Pavelski,Niemi & Clowe
for
Macarthur,Reimer,Bozak,Colbrone,Franson
--------------------------------------------------
1st (5th overall),2nd (35th overall),D'Amigo & Holzer
for
EDM 1st overall
---------------------------------------------------
Trade L.A.C.K
---------------------------------------------------
Draft Yakupov

Sign Harding,Stoll,Schultz

Lupul-Pavelski-Kessel
Kulie-Grabo-Yakupov
Frattin-Stoll-Kadri
Crabb-Steckel-Brown

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Schenn-Gardiner
Liles-Schultz

Niemi
Harding
Keep dreaming lol
SJS says HELL NO because quantity does not mean quality. It would take quality to get Pavelski from them. They also don't want Franson cuz he's an RHD, the want left. From some SJS fans, I've also gathered that they would trade Niemi for value because they have an abundance of goalies... they don't want Reimer.

I have no idea about the value of the trade to EDM. It seems like fair value (maybe with another dman to replace damigo), but unrealistic.

My biggest complaint is that TOR isn't going to be able to just "Trade L.A.C.K." Who the hell do you think wants LACK? There's a reason we want rid of them. Maybe we can trade one or two, but unlikely all of them. Therefore, we have a huge salary cap problem.

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:04 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
To San Jose:
MacArthur
Gunnarsson
3rd in 2013

To Toronto:
Clowe
Murray
Niemi



Niemi has 3 yrs left and I`m not sold that he`s our answer in net.

This I would consider.
Why do we want Murray? All we really want from SJS is Clowe so why don't we keep it MacA + 3rd for Clowe...

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05-22-2012, 10:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
See, that's what I like so much about this trade -- at first it seems rather one-sided, but when you look at it outside of a vacuum and consider both teams positions, it starts making quite a bit of sense. Both Clowe and MacArthur provide largely equivalent 2nd line scoring, but MacArthur excels off the rush, which is what San Jose would appreciate more of, and Clowe works the halfboards like nobody's business, which is what Toronto is hurting for. Niemi would provide Toronto with, at worst, the consistent, league average goaltending they've been desperate for since Belfour left, while giving Scrivens and Owuya a chance to develop properly. For San Jose, Reimer is easily platoon-able with one of the bevy of promising young goalies they have, allowing them to evaluate what they have without throwing the position of starter to a rookie. (Note: people seem to dismiss Reimer rather quickly, which I don't really understand. He's put up better numbers than Jonathan "Future Vezina Winner" Bernier in slightly more games played, but for some reason there's a major love affair with Bernier.) As for the 2nd round pick, I wouldn't add that from San Jose unless Toronto's 35th overall was coming back, or one of their mid forward prospects, like Ashton or Frattin. But I still really like this trade. Very well thought out. Hats off to you, OP.
YES! Thank you. Seems like I finally found someone who also doesn't think he is all that. We will never know unless he gets a starting role but his numbers are not that great. Reimer started out this year pretty well but then got injured and never found his game again after it. I'm not writing him off just yet, want to wait and see how he does this coming season when he will be 100%. If we get a goalie who is clearly better though (Niemi is clearly better in my opinion) I'm all for that too

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:22 PM
  #104
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The Sharks need a winger who is cost controlled for at least one more year beyond next season. One of the main reasons we have to trade Clowe is we won't be able to afford him when his contract runs out. What is the going rate for someone like Kadri?

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05-22-2012, 10:35 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
The Sharks need a winger who is cost controlled for at least one more year beyond next season. One of the main reasons we have to trade Clowe is we won't be able to afford him when his contract runs out. What is the going rate for someone like Kadri?
Probably more than the Sharks would be willing to give up.

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05-22-2012, 10:36 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
Ok, so we'll do MacArthur + Gunnarsson + McKegg for Clowe + Murray + Niemi.
So like, do we call the GMs?

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05-22-2012, 10:38 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
The Sharks need a winger who is cost controlled for at least one more year beyond next season. One of the main reasons we have to trade Clowe is we won't be able to afford him when his contract runs out. What is the going rate for someone like Kadri?
I will offer two views on Kadri's value:
Most Leaf Fans: top 10 pick
Most Non-Leaf Fans: diddly squat

Actual value is somewhere in between. Since he was drafted a few years ago and still hasn't made the NHL his value is obviously not going to be a top 10 pick, it's arguable not even a first round pick at all anymore. His value is fairly subjective and will change from person to person, personally I would probably put him in the late first early second range myself. If he can crack the leafs line up (or another teams if he gets traded) next season I think his value would probably rise a little to 15-25 first round range, maybe higher if he completely tears it up which is unlikely. Won't find many/any players as skilled as him late in the first round, it's just that he is small (although he plays on the edge usually) and his defensive play still needs attention.

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:39 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
So like, do we call the GMs?
It's so anticlimactic when the two sides some to a decent agreement... The debate/argument is the fun part.

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05-22-2012, 10:42 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by SnarkAttack View Post
It's so anticlimactic when the two sides some to a decent agreement... The debate/argument is the fun part.
I know

It also starts making you second guess yourself and not want to do the trade anymore haha.

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:45 PM
  #110
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This is probably the first San Jose-Toronto thread where both sides have reached an agreement. Bravo, guys.

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05-22-2012, 10:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
Ok, so we'll do MacArthur + Gunnarsson + McKegg for Clowe + Murray + Niemi.
I like this deal, as a Leafs fan.

I would probably value Gunnarsson as the best piece involved, when you take into consideration his contract status and his place on the Leafs blueline.

However, Clowe is a slight upgrade on MacArthur, while being a piece that is needed more so to balance out the top-6. Niemi would easily assume a starters role in Toronto. It fills up two holes of major concern, while taking away from just one. It does however leave chips on the table to in turn fix the defense core, with a just a move or two.

McKegg and Murray don't seem nessecary too me, but if that's what's needed to balance out the equation, I'd do it.

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
The Sharks need a winger who is cost controlled for at least one more year beyond next season. One of the main reasons we have to trade Clowe is we won't be able to afford him when his contract runs out. What is the going rate for someone like Kadri?
This is one of those "don't sell low" kinda things... A bunch of angry Leafs fans are calling for Schenn and Kadri to be traded because they haven't developed as quickly as others in their draft year. Schenn and Kadri are both worth more to the Leafs than what they can get at market value. I don't see BB trading Kadri away unless it's in a package for a real #1C. I can't see him trading Schenn away because his value is too low to leverage any valuable return... (except for another struggling player kinda thing).

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Old
05-22-2012, 11:47 PM
  #113
7even
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O4GM View Post
Pavelski,Niemi & Clowe
for
Macarthur,Reimer,Bozak,Colbrone,Franson
--------------------------------------------------
1st (5th overall),2nd (35th overall),D'Amigo & Holzer
for
EDM 1st overall
---------------------------------------------------
Trade L.A.C.K
---------------------------------------------------
Draft Yakupov

Sign Harding,Stoll,Schultz

Lupul-Pavelski-Kessel
Kulie-Grabo-Yakupov
Frattin-Stoll-Kadri
Crabb-Steckel-Brown

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Schenn-Gardiner
Liles-Schultz

Niemi
Harding
Dear god, why. Please save stuff like this for fantasy threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mokspeed View Post
My biggest complaint is that TOR isn't going to be able to just "Trade L.A.C.K." Who the hell do you think wants LACK? There's a reason we want rid of them. Maybe we can trade one or two, but unlikely all of them. Therefore, we have a huge salary cap problem.
Except, you know, they're all only signed for 1-2 more seasons. So we really don't. At all.

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:11 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
So like, do we call the GMs?
Well if we tell them that fanbases of both teams on HF agree, then they'll have no choice but to agree it will be the best trade ever in nhl history. At least we can assume that seeing as there are no precedents.

Of course, as a nucks fan with minor attachment to Toronto, I'd like to see the leafs get Luongo. If your missing a goalie, may as well go all out. I'd say there's a good chance that Reimer can develop well under Luongo.
And the more teams interested in Luongo, the better the price we get.

Anyways, congratulations on reaching a proposal acceptable to all.

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05-23-2012, 12:35 AM
  #115
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I must ask...

If the Sharks move both Clowe and Murray they become much less tough in their top-10 (Top 6 forwards & top 4 dmen). Who is gonna take care of the dirty business? Thornton? MacArthur & Gunnarsson do not solve that problem.

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05-23-2012, 12:41 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SCinSJ View Post
I must ask...

If the Sharks move both Clowe and Murray they become much less tough in their top-10 (Top 6 forwards & top 4 dmen). Who is gonna take care of the dirty business? Thornton? MacArthur & Gunnarsson do not solve that problem.
The lack physicality can be fixed by taking care of the PK. Everyone played more reserved because of the lack confidence with it.

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:48 AM
  #117
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all proposals on 1st page are good for leafs, too good

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Old
05-23-2012, 12:49 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCinSJ View Post
I must ask...

If the Sharks move both Clowe and Murray they become much less tough in their top-10 (Top 6 forwards & top 4 dmen). Who is gonna take care of the dirty business? Thornton? MacArthur & Gunnarsson do not solve that problem.
What do Clowe and Murray do anyway? Clowe is a good power foward, but he isn't the only one that can get a puck out of a corner. Thornton is probably the best at it. If by dirty work you mean fighting, then they can sign a fighter. Fighting is over-rated anyway.

Murray is too slow. He is a physical beast. He blocks a ton of shots and is as strong as a bull, but that is it. He makes terrible decisions sometimes. I'm done with him.

By bringing in MacArthur and Gunnarson the Sharks get faster and better defensively. I don't know if the trade agreed upon would work because of the cap.

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05-23-2012, 12:51 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
The lack physicality can be fixed by taking care of the PK. Everyone played more reserved because of the lack confidence with it.
This.

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05-23-2012, 01:10 AM
  #120
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MacArthur+Schenn+2nd for Clowe+Pavelski

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05-23-2012, 01:25 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCinSJ View Post
I must ask...

If the Sharks move both Clowe and Murray they become much less tough in their top-10 (Top 6 forwards & top 4 dmen). Who is gonna take care of the dirty business? Thornton? MacArthur & Gunnarsson do not solve that problem.
Neither Clowe or Murray have been physical for a while. I think MacA and Gunnar make us tougher.

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05-23-2012, 03:10 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli View Post
MacArthur+Schenn+2nd for Clowe+Pavelski
Obviously it's ----->

Clowe+Murray for Kessel

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Old
05-23-2012, 03:29 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
Neither Clowe or Murray have been physical for a while. I think MacA and Gunnar make us tougher.
That's not really the case. Obviously Murray is getting a little older, but I like that he really picks his spots when he chooses to make a big hit. For all my complaints about Murray, taking himself out of position to make a big hit is not a problem. He only goes for the hit when he knows he's covered or can recover himself easily.

Clowe was very injured last season. I'm positive that was a big reason. And he also just needs to pick his spots better. My biggest complaint is, although he's a great heavyweight, sometimes he'd get into a pissing match and end up fighting a grinder, which they take happily.

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05-23-2012, 03:37 AM
  #124
SCinSJ
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[QUOTE=Hatrick Marleau;50031963]What do Clowe and Murray do anyway? Clowe is a good power foward, but he isn't the only one that can get a puck out of a corner. Thornton is probably the best at it. If by dirty work you mean fighting, then they can sign a fighter. Fighting is over-rated anyway.

While I agree that fighting is over-rated the ability to engage in it or more importantly be a threat to, is still very much a part of pro-hockey. I am all for not having 'goon' and for not wasting a roster spot on someone who can't play hockey at a pro level, but because of that you absolutely must have players who play regular minutes that can answer the bell if necessary. Do you really want Thornton or Burns to have to stand up for guys like Couture or Pavelski?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
The lack physicality can be fixed by taking care of the PK. Everyone played more reserved because of the lack confidence with it.
Do you really think that guys like Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Havlat, Boyle & Vlasic played less physically because the PK sucked? No, it was guys like Clowe & Murray that would likely play less physically because of a crap PK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
Neither Clowe or Murray have been physical for a while. I think MacA and Gunnar make us tougher.
Maybe I'm way off base but isn't the whole reason that Toronto would make this trade is to get tougher? Why else would they be interested? While I admit that I watched all 82 Sharks games and probably 8-10 Leafs games, I can't imagine a reality where MacArthur+Gunnarsson is tougher than Clowe+Murray... In fact there are very few other players in the league that you could package together that are tougher than that pair.

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Old
05-23-2012, 06:55 AM
  #125
blinkman360
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Off topic proposal for the Sharks:

to San Jose:

4th Overall
Michael Grabner
Calvin deHaan

to NYI:

Brent Burns
4th or 5th round pick(for *hits and giggles)


Make it happen...

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