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Are we stale/tired/unmotivated or do we just look that way??

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05-23-2012, 04:55 AM
  #1
mooskating
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Are we stale/tired/unmotivated or do we just look that way??

Personally I think it's all the moving picks(bingo?), questionable calls, and suspension inconsistency getting to them. What do you guys think?

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05-23-2012, 05:03 AM
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FultonReed
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i, personally, think they're beat (tired). but apparently, it was the same way in 94? so i'm not even really sure at this point. all i know is that if they're not tired, they'd better wake the hell up ASAP because it doesn't look very good. gotta give Hank some wiggle room.

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05-23-2012, 06:18 AM
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I think it's more mental exhaustion than physical exhaustion. They're making a lot of dumb decisions out there.

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05-23-2012, 06:49 AM
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I do believe they are tired mentally and physically. Think about it, they have played 100 games, that's not counting preseason. And with everything they have gone through this year (Europe,WC, the season, two 7 game series, plus 5 in this one) I think it has taken a toll. They're human beings. Not using it as an excuse, but I think that is why players like Callahan, Richards, Gaborik and Stepan have not been a bigger factor so far. I really hope Dubinsky is ready to go tonight. I think his fresh legs and intensity will really inject some life into this line up. Combine that with playing in front of a rabid Garden tonight, and I'm optimistic...cautiously as always, but optimistic..I believe! LET'S GO RANGERS!! WE AIN'T DEAD YET!!!

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05-23-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyTheGr8 View Post
I do believe they are tired mentally and physically. Think about it, they have played 100 games, that's not counting preseason. And with everything they have gone through this year (Europe,WC, the season, two 7 game series, plus 5 in this one) I think it has taken a toll. They're human beings. Not using it as an excuse, but I think that is why players like Callahan, Richards, Gaborik and Stepan have not been a bigger factor so far. I really hope Dubinsky is ready to go tonight. I think his fresh legs and intensity will really inject some life into this line up. Combine that with playing in front of a rabid Garden tonight, and I'm optimistic...cautiously as always, but optimistic..I believe! LET'S GO RANGERS!! WE AIN'T DEAD YET!!!

If we go by this logic, why aren't the Devils tired????

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05-23-2012, 07:03 AM
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I think Torts have deviated from his game plan and I think thats hurting us right now.

And it becomes very obvious when he puts in Bickel instead of Prust.

We have won all year by having a interchangeable lineup which has given us an ability to keep going after the team we play against for 60 minutes per game. Teams have been able to controll us, badly. For 20 minutes. For 40 minutes. But sooner or later we have taken over and in combination with Hank's play that has won us hockey games.

Torts have a tendancy to turn to his core players when it really matters. I will get back to that later. It all comes from his philosopy. Torts believes in keeping things simple.

A) Don't make misstakes.
B) Get the puck deep.
C) Go after it.

You could concentrate on "D) - Z)", but Torts obviously feel that you can go far enough by just making sure you get A) to C) done and never diavete from that style. And its hard to argue against that.

How do you accomplish that then? When Torts was successful in Tampa -- its no secret how he got it done. He got his hand on a top 10 (two units) who could get the job done. Brad Richards avg 23:28 per game when they won. And made sure to give those top 10 every chance to get the job done.

The game changed though after the lockout. The game is alot more about skating and being proactive now then it was in 04'. There is a big diffrence. Enourmous diffrence really.

In 06' Brad Richards avg 24:11 and 3 forwards on Tampa had 22+ minutes per game.

In 07' MSL avg 28:06 (!!!) per game in the PO's, and 3 forwards had more then 25 minutes per game on avg. I remember thinking that Torts was nuts back then, because his team never had anything to give late in games. He kept sending the same players out despite them players not having the legs to get anything done.

Natrually, he have scaled back alot on that type of ice time now. BUT, but it shows how much instinct he have to turn to his core when it matters. And we have seen it for stints this season when we have struggled, but it have never been pretty and when we have peaked its definitely because 4 lines have rolled.

When we have played our best hockey under Torts, we have had 4 lines that all could contribute. Basically a 1, 2, 3a and 3b setup. Teams have not been able to handle us. And we have seen several other examples of teams with that structure being very successful around the NHL. I definitly think that its essential for us to have that depth. After Zucc went down, we haven't tried to have that structure. Our 4th line have been built to be able to take 8-9 shifts per game. As it is now, 7 forwards play on a regular basis and the other 5 just is sent out there to kill time and on the odd occasion a 4th line is put on the ice to provide some momentum.

Many talk about how we supposedly at least are trying to keep doing the same things now as we have all year. I do not think thats the case to be prefectly honest. From my point of view we are trying alot more to do what Tampa did in 04', but our core is just not able to be as successful as Tampa's core was in the slower tempo, trapping era. In their prime.

I am not saying that we aren't tired. (although NJD are of course also very tired this time of the year)

I am not saying that it isn't tough to use your ful lineup when players go down/are suspended.

But I do not think that we have any options other then using a full line-up when we play. We make misstakes and alot of them on a regular basis as it is even when relying on our top 10. When Torts and Slats talk about how our roster should be complimented at the deadline, when someone goes down and we look for a replacement, when someone is injured and we look for a replacement -- the goal should always be to always be able to put a full lineup on the ice and to be able to have 4 lines that can play from the puck is dropped and until its over every game. THATS what made us successful the this regular season. Doing anything else is doing something that have not been a part of what has made us successful this season.


Last edited by Ola: 05-23-2012 at 07:14 AM.
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Old
05-23-2012, 08:07 AM
  #7
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Tired? The Devils should be tired too. They played two less games than we did in the last round, but that's not enough to create the ridiculous edge in play we've seen the last two games. Also, they have a goaltender who is older than dirt out there

It's more like the Devils have just taken over the pace of the game and made it their own for LONG stretches at a time.

If your coach has to call timeout halfway through every game to motivate them in the NHL semifinals...that's a problem.

That said, we still have Hank...who game four proved may not be able to steal a series, but can perhaps hold New Jersey off long enough for the rest of the team to get it's swag back.

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

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05-23-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeharley666 View Post
If we go by this logic, why aren't the Devils tired????
Lol, ummm...they haven't played as many games as we have in the playoffs? They didn't have to go to Europe, they don't play the exhausting style we play? Look I'm not using it as an excuse, and I'm not saying the Devils may not tired..I'm just saying the team has gone through A LOT this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if they are mentally and physically exhausted at this point. All that said, they need to find a way to fight through that. Richards, Gabs or Cally need to get on the score board tonight..and we need to score early to set a tone. Plain and simple

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05-23-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think Torts have deviated from his game plan and I think thats hurting us right now.
I cannot believe I am defending Torts, but it is not his fault. Sather is responsible for the fact that Rangers have no depth. He gave Wolski away and didn't replace him with no one. We now need Dubi to get back ASAP. While neither Dubi nor WW are earth chattering performers, it is about just fresh bodies that might provide minutes this squad so desperate for. Torts deviations are understood, he has got what he's got. He is no DeBoer, just average tactician while times are calling for less motivation and more wisdom from Head Coach.

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05-23-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
Personally I think it's all the moving picks(bingo?), questionable calls, and suspension inconsistency getting to them. What do you guys think?
If that is what's getting to them, they deserve to lose.

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05-23-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
Personally I think it's all the moving picks(bingo?), questionable calls, and suspension inconsistency getting to them. What do you guys think?
I think thats insane. This team has played 100 games of tough, balls to the wall hockey and theyre going to let that kind of stuff effect their play?

They are out of gas physically from the aforementioned 100 games and their style of play. They been able to find that extra gear when its absolutely necessary all season long and into the playoffs. Lets hope they can do it to the tune of 6 more wins.

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05-23-2012, 09:48 AM
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They are just a 2-1 score kind of a team...and the Devils are good enough that they won't get blown out and it will go 7 games..but the Rangers will edge them out at the end because they are slightly better. They rely heavily on Lundqvist..if he falters they are finished.

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05-23-2012, 09:51 AM
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Tired is the obvious answer for me. There are a lot of miles on players not accustomed to it at this stage of their careers and why very young teams usually falter on their first deep run in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. That said, it isn't over and if there is one team I think can summon an extra gear or dig deep it is this group. I hope it happens.

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05-23-2012, 10:13 AM
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they def don't have the same mindset that they had against ottawa. against ottawa it was basically, "i thought we played well. we're going play the same way. we're going to win." against the caps and devils it's like "we're not playing well. we need to play better. we're going to lose"

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05-23-2012, 10:22 AM
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Though many are quick to lash out at them as not playing with urgency, not stepping up, not putting in the effort and vocally declare how unacceptable their play is; I've instead chosen to take a different route that doesn't disparage our team.

Personally, I think what we're seeing is a young overachieving team that battled their ***** off like warriors all season long, have gone deep in a punishing playoff run, and are now simply just beaten up. I think they're trying however they can to push themselves harder and have just been coming up short. I think after the other night, there will be a period of reflection. The outcome of that needs to be them finding a way to reach even deeper down and find another gear they never thought they had. A test of will so to speak. But I don't blame them one bit. I think this team has played with more courage and willingness to sacrifice themselves than any team I've ever witnessed. But they are after all human, and after the hard working season and 14 games through two rounds, their bodies are just beginning to wear thin. I think it is simply nothing more than that.

But I believe in this team. I believe in Callahan's leadership. I believe they can reach deep down as a team and find a way to overcome yet one more challenge; albeit the most difficult one they've faced yet.

We are the blue blood warriors. Never say die.

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05-23-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Tired? The Devils should be tired too. They played two less games than we did in the last round, but that's not enough to create the ridiculous edge in play we've seen the last two games. Also, they have a goaltender who is older than dirt out there

It's more like the Devils have just taken over the pace of the game and made it their own for LONG stretches at a time.

If your coach has to call timeout halfway through every game to motivate them in the NHL semifinals...that's a problem.

That said, we still have Hank...who game four proved may not be able to steal a series, but can perhaps hold New Jersey off long enough for the rest of the team to get it's swag back.

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Wait... So in 20 games Hank has one not considered to be stellar, and all of a sudden it proves he can't steal a series? What malarkey.

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05-23-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
Wait... So in 20 games Hank has one not considered to be stellar, and all of a sudden it proves he can't steal a series? What malarkey.
That's your opinion.

Hank played well in game four...without him it could have been 7-1 or 8-1. If you're saying the whole team can play slow and uninspired for half a game because we have Hank...I just do not agree with that. That's my opinion.

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05-23-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
That's your opinion.

Hank played well in game four...without him it could have been 7-1 or 8-1. If you're saying the whole team can play slow and uninspired for half a game because we have Hank...I just do not agree with that. That's my opinion.
Yes, that's my opinion. Thank you for pointing that out, lest the masses have been confused.

No, I'm not saying that. No idea why on earth you would've deduced that I was saying that. But if your point was that at this point in the playoffs we can't win by playing slow and uninspired, then your point would've best been made by saying we likely can't win by being slow and uninspired. Using it to say that there's some sort of 'proof' now that Hank can't steal a series is flawed on its face. Hank has undoubtedly proven this postseason that he's good enough to steal a series. I'm kind of amazed anyone would even question that at this point.

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05-23-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
they def don't have the same mindset that they had against ottawa. against ottawa it was basically, "i thought we played well. we're going play the same way. we're going to win." against the caps and devils it's like "we're not playing well. we need to play better. we're going to lose"
You have an interesting perception of reality.

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05-23-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
Yes, that's my opinion. Thank you for pointing that out, lest the masses have been confused.

No, I'm not saying that. No idea why on earth you would've deduced that I was saying that. But if your point was that at this point in the playoffs we can't win by playing slow and uninspired, then your point would've best been made by saying we likely can't win by being slow and uninspired. Using it to say that there's some sort of 'proof' now that Hank can't steal a series is flawed on its face. Hank has undoubtedly proven this postseason that he's good enough to steal a series. I'm kind of amazed anyone would even question that at this point.
Perhaps this is a semantics discussion and you and I just have a different definition of a goalie 'stealing a series'.

That said, this is not the time for this type of bickering. I love Hank, I trust Hank and, as I said in other threads, he's one of the reasons (along with home ice) we should win this series.

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05-23-2012, 10:47 AM
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Perhaps this is a semantics discussion and you and I just have a different definition of a goalie 'stealing a series'.

That said, this is not the time for this type of bickering. I love Hank, I trust Hank and, as I said in other threads, he's one of the reasons (along with home ice) we should win this series.
Fair enough.

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!

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05-23-2012, 10:48 AM
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They are just a 2-1 score kind of a team...and the Devils are good enough that they won't get blown out and it will go 7 games..but the Rangers will edge them out at the end because they are slightly better. They rely heavily on Lundqvist..if he falters they are finished.
I agree with this.

But I also think they're tired too.

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05-23-2012, 10:57 AM
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If we go by this logic, why aren't the Devils tired????
Different style of game played. Rangers played b**ls to the wall for 100 games. Devils rolling 4 lines and 6 D consistently. Devils finished Flyers off in 5 games makes a big difference. Amazingly, Rangers have had the lead going into the 3rd period in the playoffs 4 times out of 18 games. That leads to mental exhaustion.

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05-23-2012, 10:59 AM
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Different style of game played. Rangers played b**ls to the wall for 100 games. Devils rolling 4 lines and 6 D consistently. Devils finished Flyers off in 5 games makes a big difference. Amazingly, Rangers have had the lead going into the 3rd period in the playoffs 4 times out of 18 games. That leads to mental exhaustion.
Not sure how much I agree with this, but teams that become champions are the ones who overcome these types of obstacles. Teams that don't become champions have excuses like this.

Let's be champions.

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05-23-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by IAMREALITY View Post
Though many are quick to lash out at them as not playing with urgency, not stepping up, not putting in the effort and vocally declare how unacceptable their play is; I've instead chosen to take a different route that doesn't disparage our team.

Personally, I think what we're seeing is a young overachieving team that battled their ***** off like warriors all season long, have gone deep in a punishing playoff run, and are now simply just beaten up. I think they're trying however they can to push themselves harder and have just been coming up short. I think after the other night, there will be a period of reflection. The outcome of that needs to be them finding a way to reach even deeper down and find another gear they never thought they had. A test of will so to speak. But I don't blame them one bit. I think this team has played with more courage and willingness to sacrifice themselves than any team I've ever witnessed. But they are after all human, and after the hard working season and 14 games through two rounds, their bodies are just beginning to wear thin. I think it is simply nothing more than that.

But I believe in this team. I believe in Callahan's leadership. I believe they can reach deep down as a team and find a way to overcome yet one more challenge; albeit the most difficult one they've faced yet.

We are the blue blood warriors. Never say die.

Perfectly said. 100% accurate!!!

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