HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Notices

Kane or Parise

View Poll Results: Kane or Parise?
Kane 26 60.47%
Parise 17 39.53%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-23-2012, 01:54 PM
  #51
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
If the Hawks have an average goaltender, then maybe they should put him on the roster and play him. Because Crawford and Emery hold up the bottom of the goaltender statistic charts.

I know people like to make excuses for them...it's the defense, deflected shots, blah, blah, blah. All goalies face tough shots. All goalies face deflected shots all night long.

After watching guys like Lundqvist, Quick, Smith and Brodeur doing their stuff these playoffs, you see how these goals that 'aren't Crawford's fault' can be stopped and usually are stopped.
Oh my ****ing god!! Are you actually saying Crawford and Emery both had bad seasons? OH MY GODDD!!! I guess that means we should trade them. I guess every team should trade sophmores coming off rough second seasons..

Statisically, Crawford's had a very good season last year and a poor season this year. He's averaged a GAA of 2.51 and SV% of 0.910 over his NHL career. He is an average goaltender, sometimes above it as it showed through most of last year and sometimes below, as he showed at times this year.

And saying "it was the defense" isn't an excuse. It's a legitimate reason why, as you point out, both goaltenders - despite putting up very good/great numers last year - both had bad seasons statisicaly.. seasons that are or would match the worst (or close to it) statisical seasons of their NHL careers. The Hawks are awful in their own zone. They're complete trash. I can not put enough emphasis on how bad they are in their own zone. They're disorganized, their wingers are almost never in position to support the Dmen and each centre seemingly had a different way of defending throughout the season. They don't cover the slot and they don't even attempt to clear opposing players from the crease and/or tie-up players standing right infront of Crawford/Emery... especially on the PK. They're awful.

Were the goaltenders bad for stretches throughout the year? Sure they were. I don't think either Crawford or Emery would say they played anywhere near as good as they could have.. but the play infront of them was awful and it was awful from start to finish.

It's funny how the goaltenders you mentioned all play on defense-first teams.. with NYR, PHX and LA being arguabley the three most diciplined and well-coached defensive teams in the league.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 02:02 PM
  #52
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 12,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Oh my ****ing god!! Are you actually saying Crawford and Emery both had bad seasons? OH MY GODDD!!! I guess that means we should trade them. I guess every team should trade sophmores coming off rough second seasons..

Statisically, Crawford's had a very good season last year and a poor season this year. He's averaged a GAA of 2.51 and SV% of 0.910 over his NHL career. He is an average goaltender, sometimes above it as it showed through most of last year and sometimes below, as he showed at times this year.

And saying "it was the defense" isn't an excuse. It's a legitimate reason why, as you point out, both goaltenders - despite putting up very good/great numers last year - both had bad seasons statisicaly.. seasons that are or would match the worst (or close to it) statisical seasons of their NHL careers. The Hawks are awful in their own zone. They're complete trash. I can not put enough emphasis on how bad they are in their own zone. They're disorganized, their wingers are almost never in position to support the Dmen and each centre seemingly had a different way of defending throughout the season. They don't cover the slot and they don't even attempt to clear opposing players from the crease and/or tie-up players standing right infront of Crawford/Emery... especially on the PK. They're awful.

Were the goaltenders bad for stretches throughout the year? Sure they were. I don't think either Crawford or Emery would say they played anywhere near as good as they could have.. but the play infront of them was awful and it was awful from start to finish.

It's funny how the goaltenders you mentioned all play on defense-first teams.. with NYR, PHX and LA being arguabley the three most diciplined and well-coached defensive teams in the league.
Also St Louis.

Just look at bryz for proof of how important good defense is. Regarded as one of the best netminders in the league when he was playing for the ****dogs, now regarded as a horrible signing and overpayment with the flyers.

madgoat33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 02:04 PM
  #53
coldsteelonice84
Registered User
 
coldsteelonice84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,716
vCash: 10592
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Oh my ****ing god!! Are you actually saying Crawford and Emery both had bad seasons? OH MY GODDD!!! I guess that means we should trade them. I guess every team should trade sophmores coming off rough second seasons..

Statisically, Crawford's had a very good season last year and a poor season this year. He's averaged a GAA of 2.51 and SV% of 0.910 over his NHL career. He is an average goaltender, sometimes above it as it showed through most of last year and sometimes below, as he showed at times this year.

And saying "it was the defense" isn't an excuse. It's a legitimate reason why, as you point out, both goaltenders - despite putting up very good/great numers last year - both had bad seasons statisicaly.. seasons that are or would match the worst (or close to it) statisical seasons of their NHL careers. The Hawks are awful in their own zone. They're complete trash. I can not put enough emphasis on how bad they are in their own zone. They're disorganized, their wingers are almost never in position to support the Dmen and each centre seemingly had a different way of defending throughout the season. They don't cover the slot and they don't even attempt to clear opposing players from the crease and/or tie-up players standing right infront of Crawford/Emery... especially on the PK. They're awful.

Were the goaltenders bad for stretches throughout the year? Sure they were. I don't think either Crawford or Emery would say they played anywhere near as good as they could have.. but the play infront of them was awful and it was awful from start to finish.

It's funny how the goaltenders you mentioned all play on defense-first teams.. with NYR, PHX and LA being arguabley the three most diciplined and well-coached defensive teams in the league.
Sarava is right though, too many back breaking goals let in by both goalies. You're right too, there needs to be some improvement in the setups defensively, it is unorganized, passive and ineffective. And it's also quite obvious some personel changes need to be made on D and up front.

The coach is staying so I don't see any major changes schematically. I hope he at least changes the PK to allow players to put more pressure on the opposition and create turnovers like they did so well in 09-10.

The goaltenders seem to be staying. Hopefully Crawford plays like he did in 10-11 when he was still dealing with bad schemes and underperformance but somehow managed to prevail, a well known fact that is often forgotten. Emery, no hope for him, he plays as hard as any goalie in the league and still sucks, just doesn't have it at all. I think it was topher that summed it up the best and I quote "****ing horrible resign"

The defense, and possibly bringing in a good defensive forward, at least a good PKing 4th line C, we'll have to wait and see what Bowman does. The absolute worst thing he can do, and I think we can all agree on this, is bring back the charmin soft turnover machine, Oduya. That would signal sheer insanity on Bowman's part given the problems the team had on defense last year.

coldsteelonice84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 02:04 PM
  #54
coldsteelonice84
Registered User
 
coldsteelonice84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,716
vCash: 10592
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
Also St Louis.

Just look at bryz for proof of how important good defense is. Regarded as one of the best netminders in the league when he was playing for the ****dogs, now regarded as a horrible signing and overpayment with the flyers.
Bryz is a flake.

coldsteelonice84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 02:16 PM
  #55
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 23,924
vCash: 500
CC & Emery were worse than average. They gave up more than enough goals that were their faults and nobody others fault. Soft goals left and right. Only Mason gives up more than we did

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 02:42 PM
  #56
coldsteelonice84
Registered User
 
coldsteelonice84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,716
vCash: 10592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
CC & Emery were worse than average. They gave up more than enough goals that were their faults and nobody others fault. Soft goals left and right. Only Mason gives up more than we did
Agreed, great post.

coldsteelonice84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #57
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,779
vCash: 500
Define "soft"? I define it as a shot that was stoppable. A shot that should not have gone in. Did Emery and Crawford have a few of those this year? Yep.. But more troubling than the amount of "soft" goals was the amount of grade-A chances and open looks constantly surrendered by the Hawks. Chances that happened on a game-by-game basis.. And I get teams give up chances and teams make mistakes and that's when a goaltender has to bail their team out.. that's 100% true.. but with the Hawks, Crawford would make a big save on a 2-on-1 that was caused by a bad pinch.. 5 minutes later there'd be another 2-on-1 or a breakaway off another bad pinch and Crawford wouldn't/couldn't make the save.

Simply put, if the Hawks don't tighten up in their own zone and address their decision making in the offensive zone (as far as pinching/risky passes to the blueline go), it really won't matter much who's in net for Chicago.

Would they be a better team with Lundqvist or Quick in net? Yes.. but a goaltender can only do so much if a team is unwilling or unable to play better defensively.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 03:10 PM
  #58
coldsteelonice84
Registered User
 
coldsteelonice84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,716
vCash: 10592
Soft for me also is defined by a lack of common place NHL quality skills, such as side to side movement, where Emery actually makes Crawford look good and both are weak in that regard. I mean, how many goals was Emery way off to the opposite side and the other team just tapped it in to a wide open net? Also, a straight on shot from the top of the circle, unless it's bar down, should usually be stopped too. That's just what NHL goalies do, that's what got them there. If they see it from semi-decent distance, they should be able to snag it.

coldsteelonice84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 03:29 PM
  #59
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Soft for me also is defined by a lack of common place NHL quality skills, such as side to side movement, where Emery actually makes Crawford look good and both are weak in that regard. I mean, how many goals was Emery way off to the opposite side and the other team just tapped it in to a wide open net? Also, a straight on shot from the top of the circle, unless it's bar down, should usually be stopped too. That's just what NHL goalies do, that's what got them there. If they see it from semi-decent distance, they should be able to snag it.
Which goes back to a stoppable puck. Crawford's lateral movement isn't as bad as Emery's.. I'm assuming that was hyperbole.. which is surprising coming from a guy that's ragged on Emery since the moment he was given a try-out.

I agree that pucks from the top of the circles should be stopped.. I wouldn't define a grade-A chance as a shot from the top of the circles.. and by "open look", I was referring to the time and space opposing players had from the point or slot to take shots and tee up bombs.. which, taking into account we're talking about the Hawks, likely were taken with a player standing completely unharrassed infront of Crawford or Emery..

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2012, 03:31 PM
  #60
coldsteelonice84
Registered User
 
coldsteelonice84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,716
vCash: 10592
I think you just misinterpreted my statement. It was, in fact, another dig on Emery. They both suck side to side but I've never seen anything like Razor trying to move side to side, maybe me when I played ball hockey goalie in the street, that's about it.

coldsteelonice84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2012, 12:39 AM
  #61
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 23,924
vCash: 500
Craw let in many goals that were stopable. Our GAA and PK stats are his fault TOO. Our worst PKer was our Goalie

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2012, 02:41 PM
  #62
SugarKane88
Non-Registered User
 
SugarKane88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 310
vCash: 50
How did a thread about Kane/Parise turn into another goaltending discussion?

SugarKane88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2012, 02:47 PM
  #63
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 23,924
vCash: 500
who cares about Kane/Parise - our goaltending isn't good enough and we need to talk about this or if we should sign Stalberg now or never

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2012, 07:13 PM
  #64
TwistedWrister90
Registered User
 
TwistedWrister90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 4,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
who cares about Kane/Parise - our goaltending isn't good enough and we need to talk about this or if we should sign Stalberg now or never
haha then start makin some threads

TwistedWrister90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #65
BBSeabs27
#freeseabs
 
BBSeabs27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
Parise. Good leader and more experience.

BBSeabs27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 01:32 AM
  #66
Zuccarello Awesome*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,264
vCash: 500
Hey, would you guys like Gaborik? He has some chemistry with Hossa

I'll give you Gaborik, Del Zotto, and a 1st for Kane and any salary dump you may want to get rid of.

Just don't expect him to do anything in the playoffs

Zuccarello Awesome* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 06:45 AM
  #67
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 8,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Hey, would you guys like Gaborik? He has some chemistry with Hossa

I'll give you Gaborik, Del Zotto, and a 1st for Kane and any salary dump you may want to get rid of.

Just don't expect him to do anything in the playoffs
Yeah, ummm...you can start with Chris Krieder and keep going from there if you want to discuss Kaner.

Sarava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 09:47 AM
  #68
Tone King
Atomic Punk
 
Tone King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Uranus
Country: United States
Posts: 8,537
vCash: 50
Parise

Tone King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #69
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 23,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Yeah, ummm...you can start with Chris Krieder and keep going from there if you want to discuss Kaner.
Kreider would be a good starting point, I agree. As it is said, he would be the starting point

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2012, 02:49 AM
  #70
Evanpuckstuffer
Rookie User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 10
vCash: 500
Praise, Kreisler or Kane? Still take 88

Evanpuckstuffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2012, 02:50 AM
  #71
Evanpuckstuffer
Rookie User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 10
vCash: 500
Parise excuse my ipad

Evanpuckstuffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.