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Old
05-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Crucify him for Campbell but Huet, no, how can we believe the man that signed Khabby, kept him and wanted to resign him would bring in Huet at that salary. Just doesn't make sense. And that's not even mentioning it was Tallon who brought Niemi over.
You're cutting Tallon slack for caving to the powers that may be within the Blackhawks front-office.. yet, at the same time, cut Bowman up for not being aggressive or decisive enough in other posts?

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05-23-2012, 03:36 PM
  #77
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you can go through it as many times as you want, you're still wrong.
I will not search my post were I explained you why Tallon wanted Huet. McDouch wanted a splash he could sell to the fans, Tallon wanted Huet with Campbell. Tallon wanted to upgrade goaltending

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05-23-2012, 03:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Right, because the quality of UFA's was outstanding.

Most thought the signings were exactly what Chicago needed. Even in hindsight that holds true. The problem is that Chicago needed those qualities in players that made a larger impact, which I'm sure Bowman and his staff now realize.

But, again, it was his first off-season with money and most of his signings were 1-year deals.
It's outstanding this offseason. This is about as good as you are going to see in the cap era, two prime aged superstars, one up front, one on the back end, that alone makes this an outstanding summer to be spending money.

And who they hell said that was exactly what we needed. They were good depth moves but you don't go to a steak house for the mashed potatoes and the bread. The lack of spending, whether that be by trade or otherwise was a major blunder.

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05-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
It's outstanding this offseason. This is about as good as you are going to see in the cap era, two prime aged superstars, one up front, one on the back end, that alone makes this an outstanding summer to be spending money.
The Hawks aren't going to go for Parise. There's no sense in paying that much money for a star forward when you need a top-4 Dman and your team already has players like Toews, Kane, Hossa and Sharp up front.

Suter sounds like it's at least a possibility.. hopefully Chicago can sign him at as reasonable a price as you can get with a UFA that's going to have alot of teams interested.

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05-23-2012, 03:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
You're cutting Tallon slack for caving to the powers that may be within the Blackhawks front-office.. yet, at the same time, cut Bowman up for not being aggressive or decisive enough in other posts?
Difference being Tallon was probably being told he would be fired if he didn't do what was he was told as evidenced by the Savard firing as well as his own firing only a year later.

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05-23-2012, 03:44 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
It's outstanding this offseason. This is about as good as you are going to see in the cap era, two prime aged superstars, one up front, one on the back end, that alone makes this an outstanding summer to be spending money.

And who they hell said that was exactly what we needed. They were good depth moves but you don't go to a steak house for the mashed potatoes and the bread. The lack of spending, whether that be by trade or otherwise was a major blunder.
Here's an excerpt from "The Hockey News" 2011-12 yearbook, which basically sums up what most of the hockey world was saying about the Blackhawks off-sesaon:

"They Hawks are rested and refreshed after a long off-season and have addressed their biggest need of more size and toughness."

Carcillo, Mayers, O'Donnell, Mondator.. these guys all brough elements which the Hawks lacked the year prior. As I said, the only problem was that only Carcillo and Montador were playing any sort of significant minutes for Chicago. They needed players capable of bringing that size and toughness, especially at forward, who could also play throughout their top-9.

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05-23-2012, 03:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Difference being Tallon was probably being told he would be fired if he didn't do what was he was told as evidenced by the Savard firing as well as his own firing only a year later.
Again, none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes with the Blackhawks.. yet you cut slack for Tallon and don't for Bowman. Bowman could be being told the same things you speculate Tallon was being told. The difference? You're a fan of Tallon, while you sport a "LOLman" avatar.

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05-23-2012, 03:48 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Here's an excerpt from "The Hockey News" 2011-12 yearbook, which basically sums up what most of the hockey world was saying about the Blackhawks off-sesaon:

"They Hawks are rested and refreshed after a long off-season and have addressed their biggest need of more size and toughness."

Carcillo, Mayers, O'Donnell, Mondator.. these guys all brough elements which the Hawks lacked the year prior. As I said, the only problem was that only Carcillo and Montador were playing any sort of significant minutes for Chicago. They needed players capable of bringing that size and toughness, especially at forward, who could also play throughout their top-9.
Agreed but the 2nd line center was a major issue and needed a very good player to fill that role. It was left unfilled and it created a lot of problems and heart ache. Furthermore, a lot of us felt we would need to acquire a top 4 D at some point. Needless to say, Oduya wasn't what we were looking for. To use another food analogy, he was making an ice cream sundae, he put some awesome sprinkles in the bowl, some good fudge, but no ice cream.

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05-23-2012, 03:49 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Again, none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes with the Blackhawks.. yet you cut slack for Tallon and don't for Bowman. Bowman could be being told the same things you speculate Tallon was being told. The difference? You're a fan of Tallon, while you sport a "LOLman" avatar.
I sure as hell hope so. He should be. If he does nothing, however, I can only assume he is not.

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05-23-2012, 03:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Agreed but the 2nd line center was a major issue and needed a very good player to fill that role. It was left unfilled and it created a lot of problems and heart ache. Furthermore, a lot of us felt we would need to acquire a top 4 D at some point. Needless to say, Oduya wasn't what we were looking for. To use another food analogy, he was making an ice cream sundae, he put some awesome sprinkles in the bowl, some good fudge, but no ice cream.
It was left void to try Kane there.. which, depending on who you ask, didn't work out.. which lead to a problem because now your in the middle of the season and 2nd line centres aren't exactly easy to aquire ever, particularily in-season.

As far as Odyua, I think he's exactly what we were looking for. He showed down the stretch that he's exactly the kind of player Chicago needs, even if he's not that player, specifically. Obviously, you'd want a guy with a bit more size.. especially if you're going to pair him with Leddy.. but a guy that can skate the puck out of trouble, make good transition passes and use his stick effectively.. which was what Odyua was doing for most of his short-time in Chicago. His style fit the team like a glove and their play picked up noticeabley upon his arrival. He wasn't good in the playoffs.. I'm not advocating bringing him back.. but a player with a simular skillset? Yes.

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05-23-2012, 03:59 PM
  #86
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All I know is Bowman is terrible but I want to give away assets for nothing. So the Hawks can sign Suter or Parise. Depending which Bowman feels comfortable with.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics there.

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05-23-2012, 04:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I guess that will depend on what Bowman does with the cap space created by shipping Campbell out and burying Olsez, won't it?

It Chicago signs one of Suter or Weber over the next two seasons (or a player close to that level of impact).. then Bowman looks pretty smart, doesn't he? Meanwhil,e Tallon will be paying Campbell 7.14M in real dollas and caphit when he's 35/36.

But, as I said.. we'll just have to wait and see on that.
No, it doesn't depend on anything Bowman does. The point is that it was a great trade for Florida no matter how you slice it. They have a guy who will likely be a top 10 dman in the NHL for another few years that they wouldn't have otherwise had, and he only cost $3M more than what they were paying Olesz. But that doesn't matter either because they are no where near the cap.

Sure, Bowman could go out sign someone useful with the money but he is what, 1 for 6 on the UFA signing front? I'm not expecting much.

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05-23-2012, 04:02 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
It was left void to try Kane there.. which, depending on who you ask, didn't work out.. which lead to a problem because now your in the middle of the season and 2nd line centres aren't exactly easy to aquire ever, particularily in-season.

As far as Odyua, I think he's exactly what we were looking for. He showed down the stretch that he's exactly the kind of player Chicago needs, even if he's not that player, specifically. Obviously, you'd want a guy with a bit more size.. especially if you're going to pair him with Leddy.. but a guy that can skate the puck out of trouble, make good transition passes and use his stick effectively.. which was what Odyua was doing for most of his short-time in Chicago. His style fit the team like a glove and their play picked up noticeabley upon his arrival. He wasn't good in the playoffs.. I'm not advocating bringing him back.. but a player with a simular skillset? Yes.
The turnovers kill it for me. The lack of toughness in the D-core overall troubles me greatly. Oduya does nothing to help us there. There is only one open spot on the D (Oduya's) and too many crucial needs to be filled where for me it almost has to be Suter and Suter alone to come in and fill them...unless there is some kind of trade to be made. Suter does a very good job of moving the puck too.

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05-23-2012, 04:11 PM
  #89
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Oduya was horrible down the stretch and even worse in the po's. he had a nice ~6 game stretch right when we got him then gradually fell off.

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05-23-2012, 04:16 PM
  #90
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No, it doesn't depend on anything Bowman does. The point is that it was a great trade for Florida no matter how you slice it. They have a guy who will likely be a top 10 dman in the NHL for another few years that they wouldn't have otherwise had, and he only cost $3M more than what they were paying Olesz. But that doesn't matter either because they are no where near the cap.

Sure, Bowman could go out sign someone useful with the money but he is what, 1 for 6 on the UFA signing front? I'm not expecting much.
First, Campbell is getting paid 4M more than Olesz.

Second, Campbell is not a top 10 Dman. Top 5 offensively? Maybe.. Top 10 all-round? Not a chance.

Third, from a Chicago perspective, it 100% does depend on what Bowman does with the cap space. Does it matter to Florida? No, you're right.. they got an overpaid Dman, who's the best Dman on their team and a significant improvement on what they were getting out of Olesz. But for Chicago, you moved a guy who was a #3 on your team being paid like an elite #1 for the potential to address other areas of need on your team. If Chicago is able to address those needs, whether that be going all-in on Ryan Suter or getting a player like Matt Carle on defense and Ryane Clowe at forward, it's a win for Chicago.

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05-23-2012, 04:18 PM
  #91
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no thanks to carle. Got to see a ton of him in the PO's. I'd take Coburn 10/10 times over Carle.

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05-23-2012, 04:21 PM
  #92
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no thanks to carle. Got to see a ton of him in the PO's. I'd take Coburn 10/10 times over Carle.
Everytime I see Coburn I think of game 1 in the SCF when Bolly humiliated him.

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05-23-2012, 04:23 PM
  #93
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no thanks to carle. Got to see a ton of him in the PO's. I'd take Coburn 10/10 times over Carle.
Obviously, but it's a matter of who's available. The point was you're shipping out a #3 Dman for a top-4 Dman and an impact forward. That'd be a win for Chicago.

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05-23-2012, 04:24 PM
  #94
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no thanks to carle. Got to see a ton of him in the PO's. I'd take Coburn 10/10 times over Carle.
Agreed, that's probably why Homer signed Coburn to a long term deal and let Carle hit UFA. Carle, I mean, he's definitely better than Oduya, so he has that going for him. But I don't think he coming in for Oduya improves the team enough on the backend and it still leaves a physical void. But, I suppose I wouldn't be livid if we signed Carle only because Bowman wouldn't be compounding the mistake of getting Oduya. At least Carle is younger and better. But it still doesn't address all of our needs. Suter does.

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05-23-2012, 04:33 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Agreed, that's probably why Homer signed Coburn to a long term deal and let Carle hit UFA. Carle, I mean, he's definitely better than Oduya, so he has that going for him. But I don't think he coming in for Oduya improves the team enough on the backend and it still leaves a physical void. But, I suppose I wouldn't be livid if we signed Carle only because Bowman wouldn't be compounding the mistake of getting Oduya. At least Carle is younger and better. But it still doesn't address all of our needs. Suter does.
If Bowman trades Hammer for, or then by moving Hammer signs a Brad Stuart-type Dman and then, on top of that signs Matt Carle, would that not be addressing both needs? You bring in the grit and snarl you need on the backend which Hammer, even though I like him, hasn't brought consistently while adding the puck-moving and transistion play that the Hawks also need, as proven by the success they had following Odyua's arrival.

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05-23-2012, 04:43 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
If Bowman trades Hammer for, or then by moving Hammer signs a Brad Stuart-type Dman and then, on top of that signs Matt Carle, would that not be addressing both needs? You bring in the grit and snarl you need on the backend which Hammer, even though I like him, hasn't brought consistently while adding the puck-moving and transistion play that the Hawks also need, as proven by the success they had following Odyua's arrival.
If he can turn Hammer into a 2nd line center or big body that scores in front of the net in the top 6 and PP and sign Carle and Stuart, yeah, that's addressing the needs and I'll be happy with that. I expect Stuart to sign somewhere in California though.

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05-23-2012, 05:16 PM
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Hoss and others, FYI on Stuart

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...8156113212.txt

Quote:
“I've been living here and my family's been in California,” Stuart said. “I've got a stepdaughter that needs to finish high school so that's how it is. There's really no way to get around that. I guess it'll be up to me to kind of decide what needs to be done. As much fun and as great as it's been to play here, it's been equally as tough not having my family by my side. Those are things I'd like to consider, at least try to fix.

“It's not as easy as just picking and choosing where you want to go,” Stuart added. “I guess the decision I'll have to make is am I going to go to free agency, see what happens, or not. I haven't talked to Kenny (Holland) yet so I guess I’ll have to talk to him a little bit about it. I'm sure there will be a point where he wants to know one way or the other. I don't really know that yet. It'll be within a month, probably, I guess, or a month and a half.”
Quote:
“I know his family's still living out West, so that's probably going to happen,” Babcock said.

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05-23-2012, 05:59 PM
  #98
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He acquired Campbell and Versteeg for nothing.

It's amazes me that 90% of Hawk fans posting on HF do no even appreciate how long it took for the Hawks to be a competitive team. Tallon played a large role in restructuring the organization and there is no tangible evidence of improvement since his departure.

Bowman has made 1 good trade for a guy who will never be as good as Brian Campbell. Whoop-dee-friggin-doo.
Theres a whole lot of win here.

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05-23-2012, 06:07 PM
  #99
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I thought this thread was about Nick Leddy, who knew

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05-23-2012, 09:33 PM
  #100
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so leddy will never be as good as campbell? Interesting theory.

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