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Spacek/Gill confirm Martin is garbage coach, Gauthier senile old man, Cunney a puppet

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Old
05-23-2012, 08:31 PM
  #151
hockeyfan2k11
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Of course Spacek gets bashed. Just like other posters who said that Gauthier was an idiot, that Gainey made some very terrible moves and Martin was not the right fit got bashed time after time.

Anyways, looks like what I and other fans suspected was right on the money. Stupid dump and chase style with small forwards made no sense. The team was not built properly to effectively implement Martin's system. The blame goes to Gainey, Gauthier and Martin.

|Cam said this very thing and was promptly shipped out and bashed by Hab fans for criticizing the almighty Gauthier.

The writing has been on the wall for a while, but some people need it beat into their heads in order to take off the blinders.

Gauthier's regime was Houle-like. I'm so glad he's gone. I can't stand the sight of him.

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05-23-2012, 08:34 PM
  #152
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Thank you Jaro! You may have made a few enemies with the Jacques Martin lovers, but it's good to hear the truth. Of course, they will try downplaying your sayings by putting you down but you basically re-enforce what many of us here have been saying. Love it!


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05-23-2012, 08:35 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I'd love for a motivational-type, someone who is FAMOUS for being a communicator, for telling his players what he expects of them and what he wants them to do and how he expects them to do it.*
The problem with that is that the tactical aspect is really the primary way of how a coach can impact a team's results. Being a good motivator will help, but a great motivator who is a poor tactician will produce a team that really enjoys sucking.

Besides, I bet hockey players tend to find winning motivating.

The Habs need a good tactical coach who can bring real structure to the game, otherwise, the rest really is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Looking at the team on paper prior to the season beginning it was easy to see the D was in trouble.
Don't really agree, especially if there were assurances from the medical staff that Markov would be ready early. The Habs' D actually did quite well until, again, the structure went out the window. It also helped that the forwards were good at keeping the puck at the other end -- once they started getting repeatedly injured, and Spatch was out, the second pairing got exposed.

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05-23-2012, 08:41 PM
  #154
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
We are not dismissing them. We pretty much knew all about that already... It's the messenger who is pissing me off, a guy who cashed nearly 12 million bucks in MTL for what ?
Just stop it. If you have a problem with players making a lot of money, then stop following sports. The whining from you about his salary is frigging annoying. The guy was an honest player and worked hard. He got injured and did not live up to his contract. He's frigging 90 years old. You should be mad at the dude that gave him the contract instead.

Who the hell cares how much money he made? He was asked questions, and he answered them. See how that works?

Fans like you always complaining about salaries, but have never turned down a salary increase from your employer or refunded them money when you screwed up or did nothing but surf the net all day.

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05-23-2012, 08:46 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Looking at the team on paper prior to the season beginning it was easy to see the D was in trouble.
And somehow, people thought this team would contend. Anyone who wasn't a blind JM or PG fanboy knew this team was in trouble simply by looking at the D. Replacing Hamr and Wiz with Diaz and Emelin. And even I thought the 2010-11 D needed to be improved upon. Apparently Gauthier di dnot.

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05-23-2012, 09:03 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Also, very important tidbit worth remembering about Spacek's opinions about the interim coach: Spacek was traded before Martin was fired. There's only so much first-hand information he would have about Cunneyworth the head coach.
This is worth repeating. As much as I like Spacek, he was never in a position to judge Cunneyworth as a head coach.

As far as Martin, count me as someone who feels his coaching skill is under-appreciated by many here. He got more out of our roster than any other recent coach, many with rosters stocked with much more raw talent. Martin inherited an average bunch of players and imposed a system that had them winning. Whether or not you like his personal style (of which we only saw the on-camera part) he was a good coach who got results. At the point that he was fired, the Habs had overcome their terrible start and had climbed back to a winning record that had them thisclose to a playoff spot.

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05-23-2012, 09:20 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
And somehow, people thought this team would contend. Anyone who wasn't a blind JM or PG fanboy knew this team was in trouble simply by looking at the D. Replacing Hamr and Wiz with Diaz and Emelin. And even I thought the 2010-11 D needed to be improved upon. Apparently Gauthier di dnot.
Dumping Hamrlik and Wiz was the GM's decision, not the coach. I might be misunderstanding your post, but it sounds like you're blaming Martin for those moves. But yeah, I agree we left ourselves wide open for disaster with a totally unprepared D. Gauthier bet heavily on new guys Emelin and Diaz, and on the doctors who said Markov was good to go. He lost all those bets; consequently we were a mess in the exact areas where defense matters: on the PP and when we were pressured in our zone.

Moving forward, we're barely better. Emelin and Diaz have one season under their belts, but neither gives us the shutdown presence we desperately need. We're another year away from a strong D, with Beaulieu, Tinordi and our possible #3 pick of a defenseman.

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05-23-2012, 09:22 PM
  #158
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I didnít mind Jacques. But today you see young coaches trying to change systems, trying to adjust to other teams. We never did that. No 2-1-2 (formation). With the talent we had, we should have been aggressive. We never did that. It was chip and chase. Now everybodyís going after Gomer. Cammy didnít like it, either. Those guys have to play with the puck.

It was like watching my (9-year-old) kid, firing the puck along the boards and chasing it. We didnít have strong forwards to run somebody over. We should have played with the puck and made the plays. If we chip it around the goal, do you think Gioís going to win the battles against Chara?
Amen to that ! It's exactly what was wrong with our play. You don't dump and chase with so many small player.

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05-23-2012, 09:28 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Basically all he blames Martin for is his defensive style and communication. I don't worry much about communication with grown up men specially if he have assistants that can do it. The defensive style of play might be boring but it's very effective. We'll have 2 defensive team in the final this year and it's far from the exception. Players hate that but the goal is to win, not to boost stats and salaries.
Seems like most everyone is still ignoring or avoiding the biggest part of what Spacek said.

With Martin, the team NEVER played aggressive hockey.

The Kings are one of the most aggressive teams that I have seen since the last Stanley Cup when the Bruins played an aggressive style of hockey.

The Kings do not wait for the play to come to them. They are sending 2 men to forecheck always. Someone is always on the puck carrier. They are always attacking the puck.

It isnt about defense. Its about Martin playing passive defense. Its about Martin utilizing the dump and chase........a rare play this playoff season. Teams are skating the puck into the zone not chipping it in.

If you think that communication and motivation are not important in any professional sport.......well, I can see why you thought Martin was a good coach.

Not a fan of Spacek the player but he is saying everything that I have been saying about Martin. He is not capable of winning it all with his style of hockey and his inability to get his players to play above their skill level.

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05-23-2012, 10:03 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The problem with that is that the tactical aspect is really the primary way of how a coach can impact a team's results. Being a good motivator will help, but a great motivator who is a poor tactician will produce a team that really enjoys sucking.

The Habs need a good tactical coach who can bring real structure to the game, otherwise, the rest really is moot.
Hockey teams aren't spreadsheets where you apply a formula and get an answer. You need a combination of tactics and motivation... but it seems you consistently fail to grasp that point. Martin did not have the motivational skills and perhaps Cunneyworth did not have the tactical skills but it is hard to evaluate him accurately because of the short time period in which he worked and the mitigating circumstances.

We need to move on from both of these guys. It is the new coach the matters and Spacek's comments are nothing more than evidence that Martin was not going work out. Cunneyworth wasn't either, but for completely different reasons.

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05-23-2012, 10:18 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Of course Spacek gets bashed. Just like other posters who said that Gauthier was an idiot, that Gainey made some very terrible moves and Martin was not the right fit got bashed time after time.

Anyways, looks like what I and other fans suspected was right on the money. Stupid dump and chase style with small forwards made no sense. The team was not built properly to effectively implement Martin's system. The blame goes to Gainey, Gauthier and Martin.

|Cam said this very thing and was promptly shipped out and bashed by Hab fans for criticizing the almighty Gauthier.

The writing has been on the wall for a while, but some people need it beat into their heads in order to take off the blinders.

Gauthier's regime was Houle-like. I'm so glad he's gone. I can't stand the sight of him.
I 100% agree with this guy!

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05-23-2012, 10:27 PM
  #162
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Mario Tremblay is commenting on the article on L'Antichambre and he admit after all the crap he said on Spacek that he did not read it, after Langdow was stayting a thing in the article about the success in the playoff with Halak on what Tremblay was argumenting.

I am sorry for my english, it's poor, i know, but i have to say it, Mario is really a clown.

Go back to your home boy and don't show your face on tv next season, please...

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05-23-2012, 10:44 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by KerryFraser View Post
Mario Tremblay is commenting on the article on L'Antichambre and he admit after all the crap he said on Spacek that he did not read it, after Langdow was stayting a thing in the article about the success in the playoff with Halak on what Tremblay was argumenting.

I am sorry for my english, it's poor, i know, but i have to say it, Mario is really a clown.

Go back to your home boy and don't show your face on tv next season, please...
The management apologists were out in full force on anti-chambre, that's for sure. And you're english isn't bad at all. Don't be afraid to post more.

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05-23-2012, 10:46 PM
  #164
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The title of this thread makes me smile every time I read it. Best. Title. Ever.

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05-23-2012, 10:55 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Dumping Hamrlik and Wiz was the GM's decision, not the coach. I might be misunderstanding your post, but it sounds like you're blaming Martin for those moves. But yeah, I agree we left ourselves wide open for disaster with a totally unprepared D. Gauthier bet heavily on new guys Emelin and Diaz, and on the doctors who said Markov was good to go. He lost all those bets; consequently we were a mess in the exact areas where defense matters: on the PP and when we were pressured in our zone.

Moving forward, we're barely better. Emelin and Diaz have one season under their belts, but neither gives us the shutdown presence we desperately need. We're another year away from a strong D, with Beaulieu, Tinordi and our possible #3 pick of a defenseman.
I blame Gauthier for the weak D. But I also didn't like Martin as coach.

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05-23-2012, 11:03 PM
  #166
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had a brief interesting tweet exchange with Stubbs tonight. Mitch Melnyk was also involved:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs

@HugoSham Sorry, not a tease. What a player tells me in confidence remains in confidence. In this business, you betray a trust just once
View conversation Hide conversation

18m Hugo Sham Hugo Sham ‏@HugoSham

@Dave_Stubbs @HunterZThompson Dave i appreciate the article, but the fact u r still being vague is a lousy tease. it will get out ;-)
20m Dave Stubbs Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs

@HunterZThompson A few #Habs veterans contacted me today to say Spacek hit it out of the park. Situation was beyond awful in many ways

so as you can read other hab players are corroborating story. better sources than any of us lol

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05-23-2012, 11:13 PM
  #167
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
had a brief interesting tweet exchange with Stubbs tonight. Mitch Melnyk was also involved:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs

@HugoSham Sorry, not a tease. What a player tells me in confidence remains in confidence. In this business, you betray a trust just once
View conversation Hide conversation

18m Hugo Sham Hugo Sham ‏@HugoSham

@Dave_Stubbs @HunterZThompson Dave i appreciate the article, but the fact u r still being vague is a lousy tease. it will get out ;-)
20m Dave Stubbs Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs

@HunterZThompson A few #Habs veterans contacted me today to say Spacek hit it out of the park. Situation was beyond awful in many ways

so as you can read other hab players are corroborating story. better sources than any of us lol
Even with this...there will be the delusional few who will still take shots at Spacek in the name of PG/JM.

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Old
05-23-2012, 11:49 PM
  #168
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Spacek for asst coach ....

Martin /Gauthier will go down as one of the all time worst in Habs history ....period end of story ...

I never could understand his sit on loss strategy....your 2 goals down and protect the other teams lead....

Gauthier was Micheal Jackson ,spaced right out and paranoid," un normal".


Last edited by Habaneros: 05-23-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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05-24-2012, 12:01 AM
  #169
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Gomez rebound season book it .

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05-24-2012, 12:03 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Even with this...there will be the delusional few who will still take shots at Spacek in the name of PG/JM.
Given that the arguments in favour of Martin have nothing to do with how good the dressing room was but based on assessments of on-ice performance this actually has no bearing on their validity.

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05-24-2012, 12:11 AM
  #171
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You guys shouldn't press the interviewer. Respect the people.

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05-24-2012, 12:21 AM
  #172
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I am so glad they got rid of this clown Gauthier before more damage was done. His regime was turning Houle-sque.

Contrary to what many believe, Gainey was a very good and respected GM. When he came here, he was praised as a savior. I think he did a great job redressing this team considering the roster he had to built around. He built mainly through the draft but his unwillingness to trade away impending UFAs for assets or trying to keep them was poor thinking. These decisions brought nothing valuable for the team.

His decision making was really clouded with the passing of his daughter and it was clear Gauthier was calling the shots after. Gainey was not all there. The Gomez trade and all that 2009 retooling was of Gauthier's hand and not of Gainey's. Because of this the Ribeiro, Gomez and Latendresse trades will forever be connected with the Gainey era in Montreal. Needless to say, these trades have become the most loop-sided trades in recent history.

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05-24-2012, 03:35 AM
  #173
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"Garbage"? Little hater trying to influence our interpretation of Spacek's comment on JM?

His comment on JM wasn't actually that severe. He didn't like the system? So what? Ilya Kovalchuk likely doesn't love the Devils' system either. So Devils are clueless and garbage too? Offensive-styled player don't like defensive system. Stop the press! Incidentally, boring Devils are doing great.

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05-24-2012, 05:36 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post

Contrary to what many believe, Gainey was a very good and respected GM. When he came here, he was praised as a savior. I think he did a great job redressing this team considering the roster he had to built around.
Sorry but your comment just doesn't hold water.

I don't know what went on behind the scenes but when you look at GM moves Gainey was not better than Gauthier. He was just as bad.

The Ribeiro trade was his doing.
The firing of Julien at the first imaginary excuse was on his watch.
Signing Samsanov was on his watch.
Then trading Samsanov for two castoffs that never played a second in the NHl was during his regime.
Signing Theodore to a monstrous contract and then trading him for garbage happened with him.
Firing Carbo a month after he declares him the best move he ever made was not a sign of a GM who knew what he was doing or had any kind of plan.
The bringing in of Gauthier was his doing.
Rushing Latendresse got his okay.
Him resigning when Gauthier was fired tells me Gauthier was his man too not just Boivin's and that he agreed with Gauthier's body of work.
You may want to blame gauthier for the Gomez trade but it had Gainey's fingerprints all over it. He has a track record of trading young prospects for veterans.
Plus a long list of small, stop gap trades that really didn't show any vision for the team.
The stupid ridiculous policy of not negotiating with a player during the year was his.

Against that you have the Rivet trade. THAT'S IT!

When you compare his team's record with Houle's, Gainey comes out on top by a small margin but Houle is considered as the worst GM in Hab history.

No, Gainey was terrible as a GM. Gauthier was no better but Gainey brought him here.

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05-24-2012, 06:17 AM
  #175
Hugo Sham
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Sorry but your comment just doesn't hold water.

I don't know what went on behind the scenes but when you look at GM moves Gainey was not better than Gauthier. He was just as bad.

The Ribeiro trade was his doing.
The firing of Julien at the first imaginary excuse was on his watch.
Signing Samsanov was on his watch.
Then trading Samsanov for two castoffs that never played a second in the NHl was during his regime.
Signing Theodore to a monstrous contract and then trading him for garbage happened with him.
Firing Carbo a month after he declares him the best move he ever made was not a sign of a GM who knew what he was doing or had any kind of plan.
The bringing in of Gauthier was his doing.
Rushing Latendresse got his okay.
Him resigning when Gauthier was fired tells me Gauthier was his man too not just Boivin's and that he agreed with Gauthier's body of work.
You may want to blame gauthier for the Gomez trade but it had Gainey's fingerprints all over it. He has a track record of trading young prospects for veterans.
Plus a long list of small, stop gap trades that really didn't show any vision for the team.
The stupid ridiculous policy of not negotiating with a player during the year was his.

Against that you have the Rivet trade. THAT'S IT!

When you compare his team's record with Houle's, Gainey comes out on top by a small margin but Houle is considered as the worst GM in Hab history.

No, Gainey was terrible as a GM. Gauthier was no better but Gainey brought him here.
i liked gainey - pre 09 - for the most part anyway ---but Molson said something interesting during his presser that i'm not sure many picked up on ...he basically said the results since 03 (when gainey came in?) were simply not good enough, not acceptable. i found that a little surprising because the feeling among many is that gainey brought this class, competency and stability

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