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Spacek/Gill confirm Martin is garbage coach, Gauthier senile old man, Cunney a puppet

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05-24-2012, 07:32 AM
  #176
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
I am so glad they got rid of this clown Gauthier before more damage was done. His regime was turning Houle-sque.

Contrary to what many believe, Gainey was a very good and respected GM. When he came here, he was praised as a savior. I think he did a great job redressing this team considering the roster he had to built around. He built mainly through the draft but his unwillingness to trade away impending UFAs for assets or trying to keep them was poor thinking. These decisions brought nothing valuable for the team.

His decision making was really clouded with the passing of his daughter and it was clear Gauthier was calling the shots after. Gainey was not all there. The Gomez trade and all that 2009 retooling was of Gauthier's hand and not of Gainey's. Because of this the Ribeiro, Gomez and Latendresse trades will forever be connected with the Gainey era in Montreal. Needless to say, these trades have become the most loop-sided trades in recent history.
So now it's Gauthier and not Gainey that traded McDonagh for Gomez...brilliant!

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05-24-2012, 08:07 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
"Garbage"? Little hater trying to influence our interpretation of Spacek's comment on JM?

His comment on JM wasn't actually that severe. He didn't like the system? So what? Ilya Kovalchuk likely doesn't love the Devils' system either. So Devils are clueless and garbage too? Offensive-styled player don't like defensive system. Stop the press! Incidentally, boring Devils are doing great.
JM didn't COMMUNICATE! His system did not fit THE PLAYERS HE HAD. These are not good things. I'm happy he's gone. Good coach, but he wasn't the right coach for this squad.

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05-24-2012, 08:09 AM
  #178
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Gainey was not good..I give him a bit of a pass near the end due to the personal issues he had. But Gauthier's hands were all over this team, even when Gainey was GM. If you think as head of pro scouting, Gauthier was a "sure Bob, whatever want" type guy, you're mistaken.

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05-24-2012, 08:30 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
"Garbage"? Little hater trying to influence our interpretation of Spacek's comment on JM?

His comment on JM wasn't actually that severe. He didn't like the system? So what? Ilya Kovalchuk likely doesn't love the Devils' system either. So Devils are clueless and garbage too? Offensive-styled player don't like defensive system. Stop the press! Incidentally, boring Devils are doing great.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/23...rips-into-habs
"So much bad stuff," Spacek told the Gazette. "In my 20-year hockey career, I'd never seen anything like it. If you don't like the way I play, kick me in the ass. But no one said anything. It was terrible.

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05-24-2012, 09:12 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So now it's Gauthier and not Gainey that traded McDonagh for Gomez...brilliant!
Actually, it was, according to information that's come to light:

Quote:
The trade of McDonagh to the Rangers to get Scott Gomez came on Bob Gainey’s watch when he was the GM. This should tarnish Gainey’s reputation for knowing who can play in the NHL and who can’t, but several sources say Gauthier’s fingerprints were really all over this one.

“Bob’s daughter had died (swept overboard at sea while working on a training ship) before this and he was letting Pierre (his confidant) do a lot of the work. Pierre didn’t like McDonagh, for some reason. Saw him play in the world juniors and didn’t like him. The scouts loved McDonagh, though. When he was traded, they couldn’t believe it,” said a source close to the scene.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...567/story.html

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05-24-2012, 09:24 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Actually, it was, according to information that's come to light:



http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...567/story.html
Gainey is still the GM, the one getting opinions on all the players and making the final decision. He didn't need 4 assistant GM's to know Gomez was NOT worth close to his 7.35 mil cap hit, let alone giving up a 1st rounder for him.

This article sounds like a somebody with a bone to pick with Gauthier trying to blame him for everything. If you look at the big picture, the moves that led to this past season falling off the rails were all Gainey moves...McDonagh-Gomez, Cammalleri, Spacek, Beauchemin, Latendresse all those moves led to lacking depth on defense and too much salary/cap hit for unproductive forwards.

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05-24-2012, 09:27 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So now it's Gauthier and not Gainey that traded McDonagh for Gomez...brilliant!
It is a sad and desperate attempt to deflect blame from their hero to anyone else. It gets even worse when they use an article that doesn't name sources and reads like it was written on this very board.

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05-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Actually, it was, according to information that's come to light:



http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...567/story.html

What information? An unnamed source? Sweet! That 'story' is basically just someone's educated guess.

Gainey screwed up big time with that trade, and there's nothing the apologists can say to make up for it. I wouldn't be surprised that Gauthier had some influence on it, but Gainey made the call, and that's a fact.

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05-24-2012, 09:38 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
gainey was out of his element by 09 and it was clear he slapped the team together with martin and players 'unfit' for his system. in terms of vegan skeletor, blame boivin who walked into the next office and made a ****ing lazy decision. to not slap 'interim' on Gauthier was inexcusable
Good (and accurate) post!

CHill Seeker, I agree.....the recent demise of the entire organization started with Boivin's presidency.

The success (or lack there of) of most teams can be traced back to ownership. Gillette, although a very decent owner in many respects was obviously in it for the money and the short term.

I'm glad that Molson has made it clear that he wants the Habs to consistently compete at the highest level on a regular basis. And obviously Molson doesn't feel that either Gainey or Gauthier have the ability to get the job done (or he would not have let them go).

I'm amazed at how many people on this board defended Gainey and even defended Gauthier during each of their sorry tenures as Habs GM.

Can only assume it is a reflection of their knowledge (or lack of) regarding the game of hockey!


GO HABS!



Last edited by Melvin Udall: 05-24-2012 at 09:45 AM.
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05-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #185
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I wonder how the Gautier/Martin duo slipped so much in recent years when they were a model of success with the Ottawa Senators expansion rebuild in the late 90s?

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05-24-2012, 09:42 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post

@HunterZThompson A few #Habs veterans contacted me today to say Spacek hit it out of the park. Situation was beyond awful in many ways

so as you can read other hab players are corroborating story. better sources than any of us lol
Proving once again what many of us, here and elsewhere, have been saying all along. But what can you say? Some fans think that they know more than the players involved...

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05-24-2012, 09:47 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Gainey was not good..I give him a bit of a pass near the end due to the personal issues he had. But Gauthier's hands were all over this team, even when Gainey was GM. If you think as head of pro scouting, Gauthier was a "sure Bob, whatever want" type guy, you're mistaken.
An important thing to note. Pierre MacGuire and other mentioned the pro scouting dept had to be revamped.... the more I see, the more I hate PG. It shows why he treated Camallari so badly. Cam was probably one of the vets that stood up, also Gomez. Spaceks rebuke of the system makes sense too. Cole and Patches succeeded in it because they're big bodies... Gomez, Gionta a cam were largely invisible with that system.

I like spaceman. Good leader, tells it like it is but doesn't insult.

Bye Mr. Gauthier, good luck finding another job in hockey.

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05-24-2012, 09:48 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Gainey is still the GM, the one getting opinions on all the players and making the final decision. He didn't need 4 assistant GM's to know Gomez was NOT worth close to his 7.35 mil cap hit, let alone giving up a 1st rounder for him.

This article sounds like a somebody with a bone to pick with Gauthier trying to blame him for everything. If you look at the big picture, the moves that led to this past season falling off the rails were all Gainey moves...McDonagh-Gomez, Cammalleri, Spacek, Beauchemin, Latendresse all those moves led to lacking depth on defense and too much salary/cap hit for unproductive forwards.
Considering 90% of the team or more has Gainey's finger prints, including all our young pieces, then it's easy to say a guy who resigned 2 years ago is responsible for a guy who failed to improve the team two years later. There isn't a single draft pick by Gauthier playing in the NHL right now(they will come, just saying, no contribution yet). Gauthier pretty much did very little. The wiz trade was pretty good, cole signing was good, but he had a pretty uneventful few years in terms of improving the team. If he really wanted to, he could've dropped several players and/or traded them but chose not to.

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05-24-2012, 09:50 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I wonder how the Gautier/Martin duo slipped so much in recent years when they were a model of success with the Ottawa Senators expansion rebuild in the late 90s?
Martin was a slave driver there. He could get away with because of so many young players, no vets to rock the boat.

Hard to suck at drafting when you've got a top 3 for 5 years or so. Dead puck era so clutch and grab worked pretty well. If I'm not mistaken wasn't PG the gm that decided to keep Redden instead of Chara.... ooops

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05-24-2012, 09:55 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Considering 90% of the team or more has Gainey's finger prints, including all our young pieces, then it's easy to say a guy who resigned 2 years ago is responsible for a guy who failed to improve the team two years later. There isn't a single draft pick by Gauthier playing in the NHL right now(they will come, just saying, no contribution yet). Gauthier pretty much did very little. The wiz trade was pretty good, cole signing was good, but he had a pretty uneventful few years in terms of improving the team. If he really wanted to, he could've dropped several players and/or traded them but chose not to.
Gauthier deserves credit with Pacioretty, he sent him back to Hamilton and let him "graduate" from there and his game took off. Gainey was trying to rush him up the two years before and he failed.

Eller was a solid addition, adding much needed size.

Gainey let Gauthier with no cap room to work with the summer of 2010. In 2011 he had cap room and added Cole who was a great addition for the cost.

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05-24-2012, 10:03 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
Martin was a slave driver there. He could get away with because of so many young players, no vets to rock the boat.

Hard to suck at drafting when you've got a top 3 for 5 years or so. Dead puck era so clutch and grab worked pretty well. If I'm not mistaken wasn't PG the gm that decided to keep Redden instead of Chara.... ooops
No, he was long gone by then, but I think he was responsible for bringing in Damian Rhodes, Marian Hossa, Wade Redden, Martin Havlat, Daniel Alfredsson came in as a rookie on his watch, etc.

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05-24-2012, 10:04 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Gauthier deserves credit with Pacioretty, he sent him back to Hamilton and let him "graduate" from there and his game took off. Gainey was trying to rush him up the two years before and he failed.

Eller was a solid addition, adding much needed size.

Gainey let Gauthier with no cap room to work with the summer of 2010. In 2011 he had cap room and added Cole who was a great addition for the cost.
It's a coaches decision who gets called up or down. The same Martin who brought up max, sent him down too. Only move that Gainey 'forced' was Price, which I don't mind.

Yup, love eller. Cole as well. Both hard working guys with size. Can't complain. However, trading Halak for Eller wasn't exactly a steal. It wasn't a bad trade by any means, but after Halak's performance, I'd assume there was fair interest in Halak and Gainey, Gauthier or Milbury could've got something useful for Halak.

Look, habs spend to the cap. If needed, gauthier could've buried Gomez, re-entry him or anything. He didn't, fine. Still, habs spent 11 million more than the sens this year. Remove 7.3, it's still 4 mil more. Result? They made playoffs we didn't. We spent more than Nashville and PHX too. They made the playoffs. I get it, we could've used that 7.3 mil in cap space, but using it as an excuse to why we finished 3rd last? Nah, it's pushing it. We usually spend significantly more than everyone else so I don't like using it as an excuse.

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05-24-2012, 10:13 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I wonder how the Gautier/Martin duo slipped so much in recent years when they were a model of success with the Ottawa Senators expansion rebuild in the late 90s?
I was too young to really remember, but the sense I get is that Martin is respected as a good coach who got us into the playoffs, but that he was seen as a guy who couldn't really bring the team to the next level (remember that when we got to the finals was several years later it was with Bryan Murray as coach, some people misremember that as being in the Martin era). In a way, when I started following the Canadiens, I felt like things were a bit similar except I think that Martin found more playoff success more quickly. Things fell apart this last season but I'm not sure we would have still missed the playoffs if Gauthier hadn't panicked and fired Martin, horrible defense or not.

Don't remember much of Gauthier, but I can't think of any really blatant bad moves by him in Ottawa. In Montreal though, wow.

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05-24-2012, 10:17 AM
  #194
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In a nutshell, a manager without several important managerial skills and a coach whose lack of flexibility stylistically led him to repeatedly pound square pegs into round holes started sinking the ship. Good riddance to both.

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05-24-2012, 10:23 AM
  #195
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I love Gainey, but lol at ppl trying to blame Gauthier on the Gomez trade, and all those signing that year.

So your telling that Gainey wasn't well enough to be GM that summer, and was just really a figure head, but somehow he was well enough to fire Carbo and be GM/Coach just a few months before the summer?

Also if you read Spacek article, he says that he was about to sign with Phx that summer until Gainey called him.

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05-24-2012, 10:45 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I love Gainey, but lol at ppl trying to blame Gauthier on the Gomez trade, and all those signing that year.

So your telling that Gainey wasn't well enough to be GM that summer, and was just really a figure head, but somehow he was well enough to fire Carbo and be GM/Coach just a few months before the summer?

Also if you read Spacek article, he says that he was about to sign with Phx that summer until Gainey called him.
I really don't mind the signings besides Gomez trade.

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05-24-2012, 11:01 AM
  #197
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I really don't mind the signings besides Gomez trade.
Same here, but just pointing out that Gainey was the GM during that time, whereas some ppl are saying he was just a figurehead.

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05-24-2012, 11:09 AM
  #198
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Same here, but just pointing out that Gainey was the GM during that time, whereas some ppl are saying he was just a figurehead.
I think Gainey is still mostly to blame. At best the article shows Gainey gave Gauthier more input than usual but Gainey's got the final stamp. Problem is, our pro scouting was brutal and gauthier was in charge. While it's easy to deflect the blame, Gainey hired him.

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05-24-2012, 11:14 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think Gainey is still mostly to blame. At best the article shows Gainey gave Gauthier more input than usual but Gainey's got the final stamp. Problem is, our pro scouting was brutal and gauthier was in charge. While it's easy to deflect the blame, Gainey hired him.
If Gainey hadn't seen Gomez dozens of times it'd be one thing but he had. He didn't need Gauthier to be his seeing eye dog.

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05-24-2012, 11:19 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think Gainey is still mostly to blame. At best the article shows Gainey gave Gauthier more input than usual but Gainey's got the final stamp. Problem is, our pro scouting was brutal and gauthier was in charge. While it's easy to deflect the blame, Gainey hired him.
Its really a catch 22 real, If PG was in charge of the Gomez trade, so he is credit for the signings of Gill, Cammalleri, etc? Does he great credit for Gorges, because Burke said that he called MTL and want Rivet, but MTL took the San Jose offer..

IMO I place most of the credit/blame on the GM, during Gainey time, he did some good, but also some bad, and during PG time as GM, most of his moves as GM are "Meh' moves to me.

I don't think neither of them were as bad as some ppl made them seem, because we did have some good season under those guys, 1st place finish under Gainey, and the 96 point under PG, and also there are some good young piece left that they built Patches,Subban, and Price...

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