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Ryan Kesler Unhappy?

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Old
05-24-2012, 02:49 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Im not sure if this makes sense.... but...

Mikhail Grabovski + Jake Gardiner for Ryan kesler + Roberto Luongo

Somewhat guarantees the canucks Shultz.. Tor takes care of two needs at the expense of jake gardiner.... Allows Toronto to safely select a defensman at #5 overal.. maybe moran reilly, jacob trouba, ryan murray (if we are lucky) or Dumba... who knows..
No, it doesn't make sense. It is absolutely atrocious. In what universe does this trade make even the slightest amount of sense?

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05-24-2012, 02:54 PM
  #77
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I don't think Kesler will be all that unhappy about it. At least not to the point where he will ask out. Based on what I've seen, he loves his teammates and Vancouver. Players don't play for their coaches. They play for their teammates. Now, there is some truth to him needing to use his teammates a little more but I wouldn't call him a guy with low work ethic. Selke winners are dogged defensively and Kesler certainly is. He can be a little selfish with the puck and sometimes that is healthy and too much is not.

He'll turn it around and he'll do it in Vancouver and this whole thing will be swept under the rug like most player-coach issues are.

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05-24-2012, 02:56 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
What's the point of discussing it? Grabovski is a more expensive and less effective player than Kesler, Gardiner is a great young defenseman but in my opinion (not yours, I know) Luongo should be able to return a package including something along those lines on his own.

In other words Lou for Gardiner, etc. is fine - adding Kesler for Grabovski makes the deal worse, not better.
Just wanted to know why you didnt think it was good for Vancouver, which you have done. Thank you

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05-24-2012, 02:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
I am quite happy with my Staal/Edler deal above, so just offer them a PMD for Kesler and help me out in getting this done here.

I think Staal for Edler makes some sense if the Canucks have a plan in mind to get an Edler replacement.
From Pitts P.O.V an Edler / Letang pairing would be drool worthy.

Imagine if the Canucks were able to sign Garrison AND Suter
Suter / Garrison
Hamhuis / Bieksa
Tanev / Salo
MAG, Rome as #7 #8

That top 6 is top 5 in the league imo.

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05-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Laich + Johansson + WSH 1st for Kesler
No way to get Colorados first eh?

I like Laich (no pun), I don't know too much about Johansson, except that he's a prospect with a legitimate shot at breaking into the NHL and a late first. The values there, but with the direction our team is taking, I dont think I'd do it (we, too, are in a win now mode and this weakens our second line center position with out addressing our current needs).

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05-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
I think Staal for Edler makes some sense if the Canucks have a plan in mind to get an Edler replacement.
From Pitts P.O.V an Edler / Letang pairing would be drool worthy.

Imagine if the Canucks were able to sign Garrison AND Suter
Suter / Garrison
Hamhuis / Bieksa
Tanev / Salo
MAG, Rome as #7 #8

That top 6 is top 5 in the league imo.
Even without Suter, that is a solid D core. Adding in Staal and moving Kesler for a kings ransom makes all kinds of sense.

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05-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
Even without Suter, that is a solid D core. Adding in Staal and moving Kesler for a kings ransom makes all kinds of sense.
Bieksa Hamhuis Garrison are the only reliable top 4's that we would have if Edler left. Salo could be a top 4 (when he's actually playing and not banged up..he'd be good for 65 games a year maybe). This is assuming we actually sign Garrison.

Suter is a pipe dream..but a damn fine pipe dream.

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05-24-2012, 03:18 PM
  #83
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Kesler to Anaheim for 6th overall pick + Etem?

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Old
05-24-2012, 03:18 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
Bieksa Hamhuis Garrison are the only reliable top 4's that we would have if Edler left. Salo could be a top 4 (when he's actually playing and not banged up..he'd be good for 65 games a year maybe). This is assuming we actually sign Garrison.

Suter is a pipe dream..but a damn fine pipe dream.
Ballard gets such a short stick around here.

The addition of Garrison + Tanev into the lineup would more than account for the loss of Edler. Keep in mind we could also pry Niskanen out of Pitt if the deal went down, which gives us even more depth for when Salo inevitably goes down. I don't agree with your assessment at all, and I'm somewhat discouraged that you left Ballard entirely off your lineup.

And remember, this frees up Ryan Kesler as trade bait. His return would be hefty to say the least.

This would be a brilliant move on Gillis' part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Kesler to Anaheim for 6th overall pick + Etem?
Why on earth would Van trade Kesler for futures? That makes zero sense. He has tremendous value, and if ever moved he would bring in a solid young player.

If Anaheim wants Kesler, Ryan is coming back.

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05-24-2012, 03:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
No, it doesn't make sense. It is absolutely atrocious. In what universe does this trade make even the slightest amount of sense?
Well Grabovski is a good two way #2 center capable of producing anywhere from 50-60 points. The trade ultimately hinges on the belief that Luongo and Kesler both want out of Vancouver. Vancouver gets a fantastic PMD and a replacement #2C. They also rid themselves of what other teams view as a horrid contract. Not to mention all the more incentive for Justin Schultz to sign in van city. Now if that isnt enough, then i highly doubt Toronto has the peices to acquire kesler or luongo.

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05-24-2012, 03:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
Why on earth would Van trade Kesler for futures? That makes zero sense. He has tremendous value, and if ever moved he would bring in a solid young player.

If Anaheim wants Kesler, Ryan is coming back.
Why did Boston trade Kessel for futures? And oh, it worked out for them.

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05-24-2012, 03:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Well Grabovski is a good two way #2 center capable of producing anywhere from 50-60 points. The trade ultimately hinges on the belief that Luongo and Kesler both want out of Vancouver. Vancouver gets a fantastic PMD and a replacement #2C. They also rid themselves of what other teams view as a horrid contract. Not to mention all the more incentive for Justin Schultz to sign in van city. Now if that isnt enough, then i highly doubt Toronto has the peices to acquire kesler or luongo.
What are you talking about? Value wise, this is pretty close to being a Kesler for Grabovski swap. How is this anything other than completely absurd? I'm not even going to bother attempting to reason with you.

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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Why did Boston trade Kessel for futures? And oh, it worked out for them.
Huh? This is two completely different teams, in completely different circumstances, and about two completely different players. That makes zero sense.

Vancouver, back to back Presidents trophy winners, are not interested in trading away their Selke winning 2c for futures. Especially considering he can bring in a hefty return.

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05-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Why did Boston trade Kessel for futures? And oh, it worked out for them.
I dont know if im the only one, but vancouver isnt getting any younger and we have already determined that what is in place is not good enough to win a stanley.

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05-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #89
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His production didn't dip, he just overachieved the previous year. He's only broken +25 once or twice in his career if I recall.

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05-24-2012, 03:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Kesler to Anaheim for 6th overall pick + Etem?
I like the value, but futures mean a lot less to us the moat other teams. Etem's a stellar prospect, and the pick is a great addition, but we need players that can contribute now, barring a total rebuild by Gillis (in which case I'd snap this up).

I don't know that 6th overall pick would yield someone like Couturier that will make the team right away either. Either way, great offer, just not what were looking for at the moment.

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05-24-2012, 03:28 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
What are you talking about? Value wise, this is pretty close to being a Kesler for Grabovski swap. How is this anything other than completely absurd? I'm not even going to bother attempting to reason with you.
If you are expecting gardiner for luongo then you are severely blinded by canucks goggles. 33 year old goalies with 10 years left on a 5.3m cap hit are not worth rookie 21 year old stud defenseman...

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05-24-2012, 03:29 PM
  #92
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So first Luongo is being shipped out after signing a huge deal, and now potentially Kesler too. Sends some good messages to free agents and current players....

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05-24-2012, 03:30 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I dont know if im the only one, but vancouver isnt getting any younger and we have already determined that what is in place is not good enough to win a stanley.
They got within a game of the cup. When you consider all the external factors ..such as officiating, inuries, and plain luck 'what is in place' is just about there..and the cup IS with in their grasp.
Teams like Edmonton, Toronto, the Canes..those are teams that you can apply that statement too. When you make that statement about a two time pres trophy winner and game 7 cup final team like the canucks..you make yourself look stupid.

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05-24-2012, 03:32 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Why did Boston trade Kessel for futures? And oh, it worked out for them.
he was an RFA who wasn't gonna sign

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05-24-2012, 03:34 PM
  #95
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They got within a game of the cup. When you consider all the external factors ..such as officiating, inuries, and plain luck 'what is in place' is just about there..and the cup IS with in their grasp.
Teams like Edmonton, Toronto, the Canes..those are teams that you can apply that statement too. When you make that statement about a two time pres trophy winner and game 7 cup final team like the canucks..you make yourself look stupid.
Hodgson = gone

Cap Space = barley any (yet luongo is worth gardiner hahahha)

vancouver = out in the first round

stanley cup final = basically 2 years ago

sedin = aging

kesler = unhappy and under severe repair

other teams = getting better

vancouver = missed their window.

However que the 1million other excuses...

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05-24-2012, 03:34 PM
  #96
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Ballard gets such a short stick around here.

The addition of Garrison + Tanev into the lineup would more than account for the loss of Edler. Keep in mind we could also pry Niskanen out of Pitt if the deal went down, which gives us even more depth for when Salo inevitably goes down. I don't agree with your assessment at all, and I'm somewhat discouraged that you left Ballard entirely off your lineup.

And remember, this frees up Ryan Kesler as trade bait. His return would be hefty to say the least.

This would be a brilliant move on Gillis' part.
Wouldn't it just? It makes so much sense. For PIT it's dealing from a strength (center) to fill a weakness (LHD), VAN would get a younger quite possibly healthy at season's start 2C and the abilty to auction of their spare one for max return and Staal goes into the second line of a legit contender in the west. Everyone is happy (assuming Kesler likes his new home ).

Depending on where our own D prospects are at we could also consider dishing Orpik to someone with wingers to spare or give away Martin free to a good home and pick up an FA. I am liking it way too much for it to actually happen.

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05-24-2012, 03:35 PM
  #97
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People seem confused as to what kind of value Kesler has.
Letís be honest here..he isnt a 40 goal guy....but he's better than what he showed this 2011/2012 season.
He's a 25-30 goal player who will probably score at just below a ppg pace ..maybe 70-75 points. He brings a selke level defensive game.
All in all, he's worth quite a bit.

If he comes back from injury next season and says he's healthy but still plays like crap...then you can safely say his value has diminished...and he'll be nursing injuries the rest of his career.

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05-24-2012, 03:38 PM
  #98
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Anisimov, Erixon and the Rangers 1st for Kesler

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05-24-2012, 03:40 PM
  #99
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AV calling out Kesler makes absolutely perfect sense. I'm not sure why people are calling for AV's dismissal.

AV is the winning-est coach in Canucks history. You can argue that Crawford never had Luongo. But then you can argue that AV never had Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi in their prime and the Sedins on the 2nd line.

Kesler is a competitor, he's someone that needs motivation to play. AV is just lighting a fire under him. If Gillis wants to trade him or AV wants him gone, I'm all for it. I was never a fan of Kesler's when the Canucks matched that ridiculous offer sheet from Philly. 1.9 million for Kesler when he only scored 12 goals in HIS CAREER at that point.

Clearly the 41 goals was a fluke year, you can argue that he's coming off 2 major surgeries in consecutive years, okay, well if that's the argument, then it makes perfect sense to trade him while his value is still high.

Makes perfect sense to bundle Kesler with Luongo/Schneider for trade bait as well. I promise you the return for Luongo + Kesler is a lot more than Luongo would have brought. Can easily get a 2C to replace Kesler and additional pieces to help the team win now as well.

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05-24-2012, 03:45 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Hodgson = gone

Cap Space = barley any (yet luongo is worth gardiner hahahha)

vancouver = out in the first round

stanley cup final = basically 2 years ago

sedin = aging

kesler = unhappy and under severe repair

other teams = getting better

vancouver = missed their window.
I hate Vancouver, and I have to disagree with this strongly. Vancovuer can still afford to trade Kesler for futures, but will have to work some magic with a Schneider trade or through free agency to make that work.

Vancouver without Kesler, essentially destroys the foundation of their second line, and noone in the organization is ready to step into that role. They could, in theory, find a Kesler replacement through trading Schneider or by picking up a big UFA (IE Parise).

So I wouldn't say they've missed their window. But with 32 year old Sedins, they will miss it if they trade Kesler without finding a replacement.

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