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Old
05-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #26
Grant
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What the hell is wrong with leaf fans?!?!?!?! Saying no to this trade, are you F***ing kidding me? Seriously, go sign into a mental institution because we would be laughing our a**es off for years to come with how well we come out with this trade if it ever happened. Vinny may not be what he once was but he is still leaps and bounds better then what we have, and getting him for the players we would have to pay other teams to take. Oh my god, I can still not wrap my head around why leaf fans said no to this... This is why I'm considering leaving HF, people say no to things that they shouldn't and then attempt to justify why

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05-24-2012, 04:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
What the hell is wrong with leaf fans?!?!?!?! Saying no to this trade, are you F***ing kidding me? Seriously, go sign into a mental institution because we would be laughing our a**es off for years to come with how well we come out with this trade if it ever happened. Vinny may not be what he once was but he is still leaps and bounds better then what we have, and getting him for the players we would have to pay other teams to take. Oh my god, I can still not wrap my head around why leaf fans said no to this... This is why I'm considering leaving HF, people say no to things that they shouldn't and then attempt to justify why
100% agree. How can ANYONE say no to this. These types of proposals are why the fanbase gets thrashed.

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05-24-2012, 04:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
100% agree. How can ANYONE say no to this. These types of proposals are why the fanbase gets thrashed.
I spend more time arguing with leafs fans as to why they are wrong (example being such as a players value) than I do with other fans.

We truly are apart of a fanbase where the majority are stupid, so stupid they don't know it


Last edited by Grant: 05-24-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old
05-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #29
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Why would leaf fans say no....we have nothing to defend here.
Komi and Conn suck.

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05-24-2012, 04:32 PM
  #30
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
100% agree. How can ANYONE say no to this. These types of proposals are why the fanbase gets thrashed.
Its more laughable LL because all the fanbase does is say how much they NEED a number one center. You're one of the more reasonable Leaf fans, so I'll ask you, what/who is that elusive "number one center" youre looking for? I've now seen proposals for both Staals, Lecavalier, Krejci, Stasny all turned down (a lot were horrible for the Leafs, but a lot were also good value too), and I'm just at a loss of what the fanbase expects to get..

Everyone is too old, cap hit is too much, arent a "true number one center." Number one centers dont grow on trees, you know how many centers went 80+ points? SIX in the entire league. What are you looking for? A 25 year old PPG center with great hands, world class speed, great playmaker, a great contract and snipe for a shot? I'm sorry, everyone else in the league is too.

This is a great deal for the Leafs, hed be your best offensive center immediately.

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05-24-2012, 05:52 PM
  #31
Grant
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Its more laughable LL because all the fanbase does is say how much they NEED a number one center. You're one of the more reasonable Leaf fans, so I'll ask you, what/who is that elusive "number one center" youre looking for? I've now seen proposals for both Staals, Lecavalier, Krejci, Stasny all turned down (a lot were horrible for the Leafs, but a lot were also good value too), and I'm just at a loss of what the fanbase expects to get..

Everyone is too old, cap hit is too much, arent a "true number one center." Number one centers dont grow on trees, you know how many centers went 80+ points? SIX in the entire league. What are you looking for? A 25 year old PPG center with great hands, world class speed, great playmaker, a great contract and snipe for a shot? I'm sorry, everyone else in the league is too.

This is a great deal for the Leafs, hed be your best offensive center immediately.
People have their hopes up for a player that doesn't exist.

What leaf fans in general want as a center:
- Proven but young (80+ points for 5 years already but still 21 or younger)
- Big but fast (like 6 foot 6 so can play the boards extremely well, but fast enough to keep up with Kessel)
- A guy who can pot 40 goals while still being a pass first guy so our sniper Kessel can get 60
- Leadership qualities
- Can play goalie as well cause ours are no good

Clearly this player doesn't exist and never will. I see the center that leafs want as a Barbie. Someone you can make as a doll/in a video game, but in real life just isn't possible. The most feasible thing I listed is the leadership qualities. Too bad we have Burke's man Phaneuf already as a captain so he won't necessarily care about if the player has that quality or not.

Personally I'm a fan of the Staals. I'm a big fan of Jordan but wouldn't complain if we somehow managed to get Eric obviously. Jordan is the most realistic option out there probably right now for guys who are/may become a #1. They are big, have leadership qualities (atleast Eric does, Jordan yet to be determined maybe), can score, still young. Won't get much/any better than that. For me my Plan A this summer to address the center situation would be to get Jordan Staal (if he is indeed available). Plan B would be to get Galchenyuk (don't think he is around at #5 so would have to trade up).


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Old
05-24-2012, 06:09 PM
  #32
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have leadership qualities (atleast Eric does, Jordan yet to be determined maybe)
He got his A quite young and he is by all accounts a good locker room presence and team first kind of guy. Not sure he would make TO a good captain (just coming in all newbie at 23 and taking it away from someone), but if leadership by example is what you want, can't see how you'd go wrong with a Staal.

Not trying to sell you, BTW, just wanted to say that, because he is awesome.

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05-24-2012, 06:14 PM
  #33
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He got his A quite young and he is by all accounts a good locker room presence and team first kind of guy. Not sure he would make TO a good captain (just coming in all newbie at 23 and taking it away from someone), but if leadership by example is what you want, can't see how you'd go wrong with a Staal.

Not trying to sell you, BTW, just wanted to say that, because he is awesome.
Wasn't sure if he had an A or not, either way he doesn't have the C like his brother Eric (ignore the fact that he plays on a team with Crosby haha).

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05-24-2012, 06:17 PM
  #34
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This is awful

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05-24-2012, 06:50 PM
  #35
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It's bad when the only thing of value going to TB is the 4th round pick.

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Old
05-24-2012, 07:02 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
Wasn't sure if he had an A or not, either way he doesn't have the C like his brother Eric (ignore the fact that he plays on a team with Crosby haha).
I think it's shared with Orpik and Malkin, so at any given day, that Crosby is actually on the ice, he may not actually be sporting an A on the jersey.

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05-24-2012, 08:13 PM
  #37
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This post is downright comical. God forbid you actually address a need with a specific player type and not just make a trade for the sake of making a trade. A "settle" mentality is what brought this franchise Connolly after Richards was off the market, and we know how that's worked out. Really, your first paragraph is just astoundingly ignorant. Like, wow.
How great is this? I don't have to waste my time dignifying your garbage response because a rational Leaf fan did it for me. How can you possibly call me ignorant when proposals like this one continue to pop up here everyday, and every time a gaggle of Leaf fans come in and explain to the masses that the player in question (Staal, Vinny, Carter, Savard when he was healthy, etc) just doesn't measure up for some inane reason. The bottom line is that there are only a handful of really elite #1 centers league wide, and you're not getting one of them. So whoever you get is going to have some sort of deficiency, or else you can continue to mow throw guys that have never, ever, proven to be #1 centers (Connolly, Bozak).

Here's the deal...If Vinny is available (which he's most likely not), then Burke should go after him. He's wasted millions on crappy players that haven't contributed anything, so who cares if Vinny is slightly overpaid. He's be far and away the closest thing to a #1 center that's been in Toronto since Sundin left town. He's the best he's gonna do for now.

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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
People have their hopes up for a player that doesn't exist.

What leaf fans in general want as a center:
- Proven but young (80+ points for 5 years already but still 21 or younger)
- Big but fast (like 6 foot 6 so can play the boards extremely well, but fast enough to keep up with Kessel)
- A guy who can pot 40 goals while still being a pass first guy so our sniper Kessel can get 60
- Leadership qualities
- Can play goalie as well cause ours are no good

Clearly this player doesn't exist and never will. I see the center that leafs want as a Barbie. Someone you can make as a doll/in a video game, but in real life just isn't possible. The most feasible thing I listed is the leadership qualities. Too bad we have Burke's man Phaneuf already as a captain so he won't necessarily care about if the player has that quality or not.

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05-24-2012, 08:41 PM
  #38
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Yzerman will be run out of Tampa if he ever considers taking this junk for Vinny.

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Old
05-24-2012, 10:33 PM
  #39
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Okay, Leafs fans really don't want anybody, do they? Every single thread about "X centre who would instantly become the Leafs #1 centre (Kesler, Lecavalier, Marleau, etc) to the Leafs for scrap" still has some Leafs fans turning down the deal. It's just like the endless "Luongo/Kiprusoff/Thomas to the Leafs" threads. "Awww, no way, they're too old, have crappy contracts, and sure they're a hell of a step up from what we've got now, but oh no we can't lose anything to get them!!!!1!" C'mon, guys. Do you have some deep-seated fear of success or something? You're reminding me of a couple of young guys hanging out in the corner of the bar finding fault with every single girl in the place to avoid having to actually ask them out and risk getting shot down. "What about her? Aw no way man, she's got kinda fattish calves. Her? Pfffft yeah right. I can see that acne scar on her chin from here. Besides, what if Megan Fox comes in and we're with someone?!"

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05-24-2012, 10:38 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Okay, Leafs fans really don't want anybody, do they? Every single thread about "X centre who would instantly become the Leafs #1 centre (Kesler, Lecavalier, Marleau, etc) to the Leafs for scrap" still has some Leafs fans turning down the deal. It's just like the endless "Luongo/Kiprusoff/Thomas to the Leafs" threads. "Awww, no way, they're too old, have crappy contracts, and sure they're a hell of a step up from what we've got now, but oh no we can't lose anything to get them!!!!1!" C'mon, guys. Do you have some deep-seated fear of success or something? You're reminding me of a couple of young guys hanging out in the corner of the bar finding fault with every single girl in the place to avoid having to actually ask them out and risk getting shot down. "What about her? Aw no way man, she's got kinda fattish calves. Her? Pfffft yeah right. I can see that acne scar on her chin from here. Besides, what if Megan Fox comes in and we're with someone?!"
Megan Fox is too much of a shoot first type...the Leafs #1 center needs to be pass first.

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05-24-2012, 10:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Okay, Leafs fans really don't want anybody, do they? Every single thread about "X centre who would instantly become the Leafs #1 centre (Kesler, Lecavalier, Marleau, etc) to the Leafs for scrap" still has some Leafs fans turning down the deal. It's just like the endless "Luongo/Kiprusoff/Thomas to the Leafs" threads. "Awww, no way, they're too old, have crappy contracts, and sure they're a hell of a step up from what we've got now, but oh no we can't lose anything to get them!!!!1!" C'mon, guys. Do you have some deep-seated fear of success or something? You're reminding me of a couple of young guys hanging out in the corner of the bar finding fault with every single girl in the place to avoid having to actually ask them out and risk getting shot down. "What about her? Aw no way man, she's got kinda fattish calves. Her? Pfffft yeah right. I can see that acne scar on her chin from here. Besides, what if Megan Fox comes in and we're with someone?!"
Leaf fans apparently just want Quick, Tavares/Stamkos and Weber for Bozak, Connolly, and a 1st (2013).

It sucks but whatevs gotta roll with the punches. Would take the deal but there's absolutely no way Vinny leaves Tampa, he loves it there, big community guy.

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05-24-2012, 11:25 PM
  #42
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How great is this? I don't have to waste my time dignifying your garbage response because a rational Leaf fan did it for me. How can you possibly call me ignorant when proposals like this one continue to pop up here everyday, and every time a gaggle of Leaf fans come in and explain to the masses that the player in question (Staal, Vinny, Carter, Savard when he was healthy, etc) just doesn't measure up for some inane reason. The bottom line is that there are only a handful of really elite #1 centers league wide, and you're not getting one of them. So whoever you get is going to have some sort of deficiency, or else you can continue to mow throw guys that have never, ever, proven to be #1 centers (Connolly, Bozak).

Here's the deal...If Vinny is available (which he's most likely not), then Burke should go after him. He's wasted millions on crappy players that haven't contributed anything, so who cares if Vinny is slightly overpaid. He's be far and away the closest thing to a #1 center that's been in Toronto since Sundin left town. He's the best he's gonna do for now.
This is a fun response. I like this response. Firstly, I can't call you ignorant because the vast majority of Leafs fans have delusions of grandeur? Yeah, that makes sense. Because that totally has something to do with me calling you ignorant. Tu quoque is a bull**it argument and you know it. My post was in response to this:

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Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
The strict criteria for which Leaf fans have bestowed on their never ending search for a #1 center has become downright comical. Everyone that's proposed isn't fast enough, isn't young enough, is overpaid, is shoot first, etc.
That's just silly. The Leafs can't address a specific organizational need (i.e. playmaking centre vs shooting centre) because they suck too much? Yeah alright, hard to argue with that. It's illogical, irrational, and a mismanagement of assets to spring for a player just because he's "far and away the closest thing to a #1 center that's been in Toronto since Sundin left town." Tyler freaking Bozak is the closest thing to a #1 center that's been in Toronto since Sundin left town. Does that make him any good? Of course not. Now, I'm not of the opinion that we shouldn't go after Lecavlier, Staal, etc if they become available, because they would definitely be an upgrade, but saying that the Leafs can't have standards because they're centre depth is abysmal is ridiculous. Also, I love this part:

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Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
The bottom line is that there are only a handful of really elite #1 centers league wide, and you're not getting one of them.
Hey, my crystal ball's been kinda foggy lately, mind if I borrow yours?

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Old
05-24-2012, 11:42 PM
  #43
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Pretty terrible short term deal for the Bolts, but if you were to propose this trade in another 6 years then its a different story. And by that time, he would only have 2 years left on his contract still making more than Stammer.

You have to maximize the value of Vinny, if not then he's going to be an albatros on the cap for the next 8 years.

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05-24-2012, 11:54 PM
  #44
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Pretty terrible short term deal for the Bolts, but if you were to propose this trade in another 6 years then its a different story. And by that time, he would only have 2 years left on his contract still making more than Stammer.

You have to maximize the value of Vinny, if not then he's going to be an albatros on the cap for the next 8 years.
Not really, cap looks like it will continue to climb

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05-24-2012, 11:58 PM
  #45
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Not really, cap looks like it will continue to climb
Still looks awful on there.

No way that I put an offer in there for him. He's a good player, but nothing to weigh you down for that long.

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05-25-2012, 12:05 AM
  #46
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Still looks awful on there.

No way that I put an offer in there for him. He's a good player, but nothing to weigh you down for that long.
Dont blame you frankly, but given the state of Tampas prospect system, it benefits us to keep him.

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Old
05-25-2012, 03:55 AM
  #47
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While I would love to see the Leafs trade Komisarek, Lombardi & Connolly I don't like the contract which Lecavalier has. Plus considering his age if the Leafs are to take on a long term contract I rather have them try and get Rick Nash since he is at least 5 years younger then Lecavalier.

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05-25-2012, 03:56 AM
  #48
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The hideen value is that Tampa would have all that salary coming off their books after this season.

If they had much rockier ownership like say Phoenix, maybe something like this would happen, but since I think they are fairly stable (though running on an internal cap) they would never make this move.
Bolded part is nonsense. Yzerman has the go-ahead to spend to the cap ceiling every year. Where did you get that info about an "internal cap" from?

There is no "hidden value" in opening up a huge hole at the #2 center position for 7.7m in cap space. A majority of that extra cap space is just going to go right back into getting a #2 center for the next 6-8yrs (one that probably isn't as good as Vinny). So we get rid of a productive player in the hopes of maybe finding a slight downgrade and enough cap to sign a #4/5 dman.

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05-25-2012, 03:56 AM
  #49
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this is like one of the worst proposals i have ever seen

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05-25-2012, 07:51 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Its more laughable LL because all the fanbase does is say how much they NEED a number one center. You're one of the more reasonable Leaf fans, so I'll ask you, what/who is that elusive "number one center" youre looking for? I've now seen proposals for both Staals, Lecavalier, Krejci, Stasny all turned down (a lot were horrible for the Leafs, but a lot were also good value too), and I'm just at a loss of what the fanbase expects to get..

Everyone is too old, cap hit is too much, arent a "true number one center." Number one centers dont grow on trees, you know how many centers went 80+ points? SIX in the entire league. What are you looking for? A 25 year old PPG center with great hands, world class speed, great playmaker, a great contract and snipe for a shot? I'm sorry, everyone else in the league is too.

This is a great deal for the Leafs, hed be your best offensive center immediately.

Well if i had my pick of the litter, i would sell the farm for (and yes i'm including Gardiner, the 1st plus plus plus) for guys like Spezza, Staal, Tavares, Stammer,Getzlaf and others of their ilk. Lecavalier i would take even with his contract. The reality is, no team is going to trade us a #1C. I say, stay the course and hope to pick a C at #5. To the OP, ya, anyone who tries to justify this being bad for TO needs a good baby-shaking.

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