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ISS Top 30, May 2012

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Old
05-19-2012, 07:15 AM
  #76
Whitesnake
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Somehow, I don't believe Ceci will go top 12. Nor do I think he should. I'd take Reinhart AND Maatta ahead of him right now. I see him from 12 to 20.

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05-19-2012, 04:51 PM
  #77
Czechexpert
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
mmh, what?

you would have a point if Trouba ('s skillset and potential) was somewhat similar to Orpik, but that is not the case.
Troubaīs offensive potential is limited. He moves the puck well out of zone but he is not smart and creative player offensively or on PP. He will be more of strong, stay at home D at NHL level. Could be top shutdown D which great but I simply donīt see great offensive upside.

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05-19-2012, 04:53 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
He is not.
I agree with you. I really liked Miller, he was easily more skilled, smarter and creative than Kerdilles.

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Old
05-19-2012, 05:43 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Raw talent. Murray doesn't seem like he has explosive talent.

Murray is a safe workhorse with great two-way accumen. But he's not a high-skill player.
What do you base that opinion on?

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Old
05-20-2012, 04:48 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Raw talent. Murray doesn't seem like he has explosive talent.

Murray is a safe workhorse with great two-way accumen. But he's not a high-skill player.
Can't say I agree. I saw him take over games as a 16 year old two seasons ago.

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:17 AM
  #81
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The ISS ranking of HERTL at 30th is the lowest I've yet seen from the major scouting orgs --most consensus has him 20-26 range but really to me he is at this stage an equal to or better (right now better) value than the higher rankings of Gaunce and Faksa --perhaps he gets downgraded because he is "older" --a NOV '93 vs. Faksa (Jan '94) or Gaunce Mar '94 ---but really that age difference is only a few months and not a "differnce-maker" for ranking such as say a Mov '93 vs. a late jul,aug ,or pre sep 16 '94 would be--so that sHOULD NOT BE THE REASON...

AS we all saw HERTL was a lot better than Faksa at the World U-20 for the Czechs --and I wonder how he would have torn up the "O" or "Q" or DUB had he played in one of those leagues...He was also better than Forsberg at the U-20's ...He is rated the 3rd best euro forward on the Central Scouting euroskater ranking and 5th euroskater overall on that list--I just cannot fathom how the ISS has him only at #30 --HE is the RODNEY DANGERFIELD of this draft --his proper ranking should be in the same range as Faksa and Gaunce --at the very least--but I suspect his real value willbe one of the top 3 best forwards coming from this draft ...Perhaps he gets so litlle respect (despite proving himself against MEN not jr. boys in the Czech Extraliga,despite him being among his team's best point getters despite it being not so good--in fact relegated) -and despite being very impressive a the World u-20's--despite all this he just gets so little respect in all these rankings except from Central Scouting.. IF he is the 3rd best euroskater,put up points everywhere he's played,did not play on a stacked teams with deep talent yet still produced--despite all this evidence-he still gets no respect..ANd it is not because he is only a 1-way player --because that is not the case...MAYBE the perception is that he just developed faster than some other forwards ranked way above him and that these other still have more upside--BUT at some point a strong case must be made for the old bird in the hand adage--- better to take what you know is there than risk on a hope projection for more upside that may never materialize...I do not se what is not to like : i) he plays centre --and in this draft there are not many good centres ii) he is good at face-offs (53% at the world u-20's ;iii) check the size box 6'2 198; iv) plays 2-way game ; v) looks faster to me than Faksa or Gaunce vi) while certainly no grinder he will go into the corners and battle for pucks -when he emerges with it you see jagr-like attacks on the net vii) plays a 2-way game will back-check; viii) has a very good release and shot ix) good hockey sense,vision and anticipation...I saw all these things in his play at the World u-20's--- I mean what is not to like?

So for the ISS to rank him 30th is a miscarriageof all that is holy about scouting --a sheer disgrace of a ranking..

THat most conensus from other orgs (except central Scouting ) has him 20-26
I insist he should be at MINIMUM inthe range for Faksa and Gaunce but my hunch is he probably impacts more than they do as an NHL'er...

Central Scouting does not combine their 4 lists but they have insisted for years that
certainly the top group of euuroskaters could rank equally with the top of the na skater rankings ..wHich means --apart from any goalie making the overall top ten--you have to think Hertl could be closer to the 3rd best NA skater forward than 20th-30th overall on virtually all other orgs combined rankings lists..

AS I stated-for some reason HERTL is the Rodney Dangerfield of this draft--- and therefore the team that drafts him is going to laugh itself silly at all the other stupid teams that passed on Hertl when he should have gone off the board far ealier based on his talent and performances this year...

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Old
05-22-2012, 10:21 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawksfan50 View Post
HE is the RODNEY DANGERFIELD of this draft --HERTL is the Rodney Dangerfield of this draft---
I dont usually read hawksfan50's posts because well...

But I loves me a good Rodney Dangerfield hockey reference.

I'm hoping for a Bill Cosby encore.

With the puddin and the poppin'.

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Old
05-22-2012, 04:27 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechexpert View Post
Troubaīs offensive potential is limited. He moves the puck well out of zone but he is not smart and creative player offensively or on PP. He will be more of strong, stay at home D at NHL level. Could be top shutdown D which great but I simply donīt see great offensive upside.
It's one thing to say he won't be an offensive D, it's a different thing to say he will be a Orpik kind of player.

Unlike Orpik, Trouba can move and play the puck well.

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Old
05-22-2012, 04:33 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
It's one thing to say he won't be an offensive D, it's a different thing to say he will be a Orpik kind of player.

Unlike Orpik, Trouba can move and play the puck well.
... don't expect Trouba to do that every game. I saw him 4-5 times this year, once in person when he played an exhibition game against my school.

This was my impression from when he played here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Jacob Trouba (NTDP) was alright... He had some massive hits and had a few blocked shots... He reads the play very well and plays the point but he was nothing spectacular. As I said before his desire to lay big hits makes him look stupid when a smaller guy is faster than him... He needs to chill out. He loves sticking up for his teammates. Him and Mayfield got into it pretty hard core and it ended up with a helmet-less Trouba dragging Mayfield down to the ice in a little wresting match. He was very gritty and used his size well. He had a lot of spirit and passion and I really thought he showed flashes of leadership... Just kinda a hot head right now I guess.
He loves playing physical. He's not much of an offensive player now and I would bet he loses much of his offensive effectiveness once he steps on NHL ice.

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Old
05-24-2012, 10:44 AM
  #85
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When drafting Jacob Trouba one should think about drafting a Tim Gleason potential. Not the sexiest pick... but definatly a useful one. I would also draft Reinhart and Maata ahead of him. Ceci... is a riskier pick in my book... but could pay of big dividends... depends of your risk tolerance

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Old
05-24-2012, 12:30 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
It's one thing to say he won't be an offensive D, it's a different thing to say he will be a Orpik kind of player.

bUnlike Orpik, Trouba can move and play the puck well.
Actually, Orpik's quite mobile for a "stay at home". Skating is one of his best assets. He's got a decent first pass, and his skating allows him to carry the puck out of his zone effectively.

Orpik's issues arise as soon as he hits the neutral zone and beyond, not really having the offensive creativity to do something with the puck other than the simple dump in.

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Old
05-24-2012, 01:23 PM
  #87
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Granlund2Pulkkinen: Could you clarify little more how you define 'raw talent', please?

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Old
05-24-2012, 01:30 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Granlund2Pulkkinen: Could you clarify little more how you define 'raw talent', please?
Not used to his abilities yet. Shows ability but has yet to use it consistently or effectively.

For instance he was getting burned by small guys because he wanted to lay these massive checks. He was a good covering in the zone and when he connected on checks he would obliterate people.

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Old
05-24-2012, 01:43 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Not used to his abilities yet. Shows ability but has yet to use it consistently or effectively.

For instance he was getting burned by small guys because he wanted to lay these massive checks. He was a good covering in the zone and when he connected on checks he would obliterate people.
Umm.. are you now talking about Murray or Trouba ?

Because I asked how you define 'raw talent' because Murray wasn't on your top 10 list of 2012 draftees based on raw talent.

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Old
05-24-2012, 01:47 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Umm.. are you now talking about Murray or Trouba ?

Because I asked how you define 'raw talent' because Murray wasn't on your top 10 list of 2012 draftees based on raw talent.
Oh ****. I'm sorry I was talking about Trouba. I'm weening off of a medication and I can't comprehend anything right now.

Just showing abilities but hasn't learned to harness them to use effectively game in and game out.

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05-24-2012, 01:51 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Oh ****. I'm sorry I was talking about Trouba. I'm weening off of a medication and I can't comprehend anything right now.

Just showing abilities but hasn't learned to harness them to use effectively game in and game out.
No prob, bro. Been there done that . Get well soon.

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Old
05-24-2012, 06:33 PM
  #92
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Girgensons seems like a Dallas pick to me... I don't know why.

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