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Ryan Kesler Unhappy?

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Old
05-25-2012, 10:03 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Once that happens and the whole thing collapses there is absolutely no way to ever get to that level again with the same core.
The Canucks collapsed into a 2nd consecutive President's trophy. It's nice being such a strong organization where that is considered a collapse.

80% of teams that play for the Stanley cup don't get out of the 1st round the following year. Fatigue is a big factor and no team was hit harder by fatigue than the Canucks - they have the greatest combination of travel and media commitments of any team in the league.

The Kings are playing out of this world hockey right now and the canucks are a top heavy offensive team that were without their best winger and had Ryan Kesler struggling through injury. Pretty much every game was still very closely contested but the Kings were just a bit better on most nights.

I just hope they 'collapse' again next year into a 3rd straight President's trophy.

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05-25-2012, 10:05 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
Luongo to TOR for 1st 2013, Colborne and Holzer?
OT but bear with me

from the Leafs point of view this isn't happening, it does not make any kind of sense in the real world. There is value there so I mean no disrespect at all but there is a salary cap and in saying that no matter how distasteful, the Canucks will have to take salary back to make anything around Luongo work.

If Luongo only had 7 more years on that contract instead of the 10 then something could be worked out presumably that would be highly attractive to the Canucks. As it stands one of the Canucks needs is a PM Dman, somebody like Liles would have to be that guy. Colborne and Holzer stay in Toronto however, in their place would be names like Lombardi and Blacker(who's stock has risen considerably in the AHL playoffs) and possibly Greg McKegg any 1st round draft choices would be dependant on the Leafs winning a cup within the first 3 years of Luongo arriving in Toronto

In that

Luongo for Liles + Lombardi + Blacker or McKegg + conditional 1st(13, 14 or 15) or a 2015 3rd if condition is not met


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I can't see any way the Leafs are a good trading partner with Vancouver as far as Ryan Kesler is concerned, while his skills are w/o question he is not the first line guy that they really need and if Kesler were available to the Leafs the cost would at least IMCO be counter-productive

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Old
05-25-2012, 11:42 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
for pure ***** and giggles an expanded/altered idea bounced around in another thread (Tanguay & Jackman for Ballard & 1st) that wasn't trashed....

to Calgary Flames:
- Kesler ($5,000,000)
- Ballard ($4,200,000)
- Malhotra ($2,000,000)
total cap $11,200,000

to Vancouver Canucks:
- Giordano ($4,020,000)
- Tanguay ($3,500,000)
- Jackman ($612,500)
total cap $8,132,500

Canucks get an upgrade on the Blueline, Flames get an upgrade up front and the teams swap 4th liners that fill needs on the other team. Canucks also save just over $3 million in cap space.
Not bad, but if you're getting Kesler, you'll want Tanguay. That's why we want him.

Manny is worth 2.5 in terms of cap space too, and Ballard...well he seems to be a cap dump, and he's worth more to Vancouver then that. Also, thanks for including Jackman, all Canucks fans seem to love (because he pulverizes us every game).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsautomatic28 View Post
sabres give up both of there first rounders for kesler straight

#12 and #21(or where ever nashville finished)
Thank you but not thank you, those firsts won't give us the impact we want this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
OT but bear with me

from the Leafs point of view this isn't happening, it does not make any kind of sense in the real world. There is value there so I mean no disrespect at all but there is a salary cap and in saying that no matter how distasteful, the Canucks will have to take salary back to make anything around Luongo work.

If Luongo only had 7 more years on that contract instead of the 10 then something could be worked out presumably that would be highly attractive to the Canucks. As it stands one of the Canucks needs is a PM Dman, somebody like Liles would have to be that guy. Colborne and Holzer stay in Toronto however, in their place would be names like Lombardi and Blacker(who's stock has risen considerably in the AHL playoffs) and possibly Greg McKegg any 1st round draft choices would be dependant on the Leafs winning a cup within the first 3 years of Luongo arriving in Toronto

In that

Luongo for Liles + Lombardi + Blacker or McKegg + conditional 1st(13, 14 or 15) or a 2015 3rd if condition is not met


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I can't see any way the Leafs are a good trading partner with Vancouver as far as Ryan Kesler is concerned, while his skills are w/o question he is not the first line guy that they really need and if Kesler were available to the Leafs the cost would at least IMCO be counter-productive
I disagree, he does have first line skill, but I do agree we're not good trading partners at all.

As for Luongo, watch the Lu proposals in here, I'm still hoping to keep this clean. It's a Kesler thread.

It doesn't do anything for us. A decent prospect(I can't say I think they're top 5 in our pool, but probably top 10), cap dump(granted, but he adds more cap back then we're giving up), PMD (wrong side for what we're looking to fill, and in our system, it does make a huge difference) and conditional picks...I'd politely decline. You've put some thought into what we can used, but I simply don't think Toronto is a good match for trade assets.

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05-25-2012, 11:56 AM
  #179
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Leslee and luongo to Toronto fir grabovski and the 5th

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Old
05-25-2012, 11:57 AM
  #180
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And don't know who that is I meant kesler

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Old
05-25-2012, 12:26 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
Leslee and luongo to Toronto fir grabovski and the 5th
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
And don't know who that is I meant kesler
There is no way the Canucks would part with two such valuable pieces for, essentially, the 5th overall and a downgrade, at a higher price, at a key position. Toronto doesn't have the pieces we'd want for both Kesler and Schnedier/Luongo I'm afraid, barring the 3 "untouchables". We are not good trading partners.

Figured you meant Kesler btw, happens to us all

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Old
05-25-2012, 01:03 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Not bad, but if you're getting Kesler, you'll want Tanguay. That's why we want him.

Manny is worth 2.5 in terms of cap space too, and Ballard...well he seems to be a cap dump, and he's worth more to Vancouver then that. Also, thanks for including Jackman, all Canucks fans seem to love (because he pulverizes us every game).
I actually want Kesler to play with Iginla and then down the road Baertschi. Iginla has always had his best years with a very good 2way center and Kesler is a step of from Conroy and Langkow.

I am not worried about taking on extra cap space. and I know Ballard has value, thats why I wasn't lowballing with the suggestion.

I think Tanguay has a bit more value than Ballard and I think Kesler has a bit more value than Giordano. I thought of Malhotra as more of a dumb than Ballard

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Old
05-25-2012, 01:13 PM
  #183
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Cue the "my decent assets for your star player" trade proposals.

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05-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
There is no way the Canucks would part with two such valuable pieces for, essentially, the 5th overall and a downgrade, at a higher price, at a key position. Toronto doesn't have the pieces we'd want for both Kesler and Schnedier/Luongo I'm afraid, barring the 3 "untouchables". We are not good trading partners.

Figured you meant Kesler btw, happens to us all
I don't know, I think VAN should take that deal and run. You end the goalie controversy, keeping the one that VAN actually wants and getting rid of that AWFUL contract. You get a comp back in Grabovski, and essentially either probably Galchenyuk or Grigorenko - 1C of the future.

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05-25-2012, 01:55 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by SDK View Post
Cue the "my decent assets for your star player" trade proposals.
Ballard, Raymond, 3rd rounder for Kesler

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05-25-2012, 01:56 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
I don't know, I think VAN should take that deal and run. You end the goalie controversy, keeping the one that VAN actually wants and getting rid of that AWFUL contract. You get a comp back in Grabovski, and essentially either probably Galchenyuk or Grigorenko - 1C of the future.
This is the problem facing Vancouver. We have no one to play 2C once Kesler is gone. 1C of the future does not help us now. 1C of the future, to be effective would imply that down this road, both Sedins have retired and Vancouver would essentially be rebuilding

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05-25-2012, 03:48 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
This is the problem facing Vancouver. We have no one to play 2C once Kesler is gone. 1C of the future does not help us now. 1C of the future, to be effective would imply that down this road, both Sedins have retired and Vancouver would essentially be rebuilding
You get Grabovski back in the deal - that is your 2C. He is no slouch, I would take Grabo on the Wings any day. Grabo + 5th 2012 >> Kesler.

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05-25-2012, 04:13 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I actually want Kesler to play with Iginla and then down the road Baertschi. Iginla has always had his best years with a very good 2way center and Kesler is a step of from Conroy and Langkow.

I am not worried about taking on extra cap space. and I know Ballard has value, thats why I wasn't lowballing with the suggestion.

I think Tanguay has a bit more value than Ballard and I think Kesler has a bit more value than Giordano. I thought of Malhotra as more of a dumb than Ballard
I reiterate: Kesler needs a play maker. Iginla would look stellar with Kesler, but Tanguay would bring the package together. Never said you were low balling either I just feel Kesler is the most valuable player in the trade, and Ballard is a bit closer to Tanguay then Gio is to Kes...at least from an admittedly biased Canucks homer.

I like the deal, I just think some tweaks might be needed, because Kes does need a playmaker to play with (I think passing to Iginla would be easier for him then using Raymond, or Samuelsson, or an injured Booth like he has been), and Tanguay is a premium playmaking winger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDK View Post
Cue the "my decent assets for your star player" trade proposals.
I actually don't think many of the offers so far have been bad. Some have been a little bit light, some have been the wrong kind of return, but for all the ill will Canucks fans have brought upon themselves, myself included, I think everyones been civil and brought some good ideas and offers forward.

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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
I don't know, I think VAN should take that deal and run. You end the goalie controversy, keeping the one that VAN actually wants and getting rid of that AWFUL contract. You get a comp back in Grabovski, and essentially either probably Galchenyuk or Grigorenko - 1C of the future.
There is no guarentee that Galchenyuk or Grigorenko would be able to immeadiately step in and make an impact, which is what we are looking for. Luongo(even as a back up) and Kesler, to our roster, are more impactful then Grabovski would be (who granted, I personally don't like and may tint my opinion). It's a matter of risk, and personally I wouldn't do it, and I don't think Gillis would either. If we were in the midst of a rebuild...sure. But this isn't a matter of lateral move now, better later. We get worse now, and probably (assuming we don't have a colossal mess we make) better later. Our focus is on the now, and we bundle two pieces we can still make use of now (I think Schneider will still get the better return) for an immediate downgrade, versus the Schneider return, and at our 2c position.

As for an awful contract, I'm happy to keep it. Heck, I'm feeling generous, so I'd even send a few picks your way for Hossa's contract

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
This is the problem facing Vancouver. We have no one to play 2C once Kesler is gone. 1C of the future does not help us now. 1C of the future, to be effective would imply that down this road, both Sedins have retired and Vancouver would essentially be rebuilding
More concise and to the point, I agree.

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Old
05-25-2012, 04:15 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
You get Grabovski back in the deal - that is your 2C. He is no slouch, I would take Grabo on the Wings any day. Grabo + 5th 2012 >> Kesler.
I strongly disagree, unless you mean 5th overall. But even then, assuming we win that trade (in which case I'm still not utterly sold)...we're giving Luongo up for nothing.

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05-25-2012, 04:41 PM
  #190
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My trade proposal:

Kesler, Raymond and Ballard

for

Nash, Dorsett and Tyutin

flip Edler to Pittsburgh for a Staal (providing you can get an extension)

Sign Garrisson

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05-25-2012, 04:52 PM
  #191
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I strongly disagree, unless you mean 5th overall. But even then, assuming we win that trade (in which case I'm still not utterly sold)...we're giving Luongo up for nothing.
Oops, yeah I meant 5th Overall in the upcoming draft. Eh, you are freeing up a ton of cap space, settling the goaltender controversy, and getting a pick that should return a stud, possibly an NHL ready center in Grigs, on an ELC. It frees up space to make a move on Parise or Suter, or plan your move on Weber next year etc. Sometimes trades can't be a landslide in all facets - you win getting a 5th for Luongo, you lose giving Kesler for Grabovski, but overall I think you win. Besides, you get rid of Kesler's constant whining and diving, that should be worth something, right?

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05-25-2012, 04:53 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Two4Instigating View Post
My trade proposal:

Kesler, Raymond and Ballard

for

Nash, Dorsett and Tyutin

flip Edler to Pittsburgh for a Staal (providing you can get an extension)

Sign Garrisson
why does CBJ do this? worse than bad for them.

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05-25-2012, 05:24 PM
  #193
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I hope he's unhappy and I hope he's traded. Just fed up with his antics, diving, attitude, injury prone style, and cockiness.

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Old
05-25-2012, 05:31 PM
  #194
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Kesler - Luongo - Edler

for

Nugent Hopkins - Khabibulin

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05-25-2012, 05:50 PM
  #195
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Why would even consider trading him? He does everything, score, hit, PP, PK...these players are hard to come by. You need to add another Kesler for the playoffs, not subtract one.
Surround him with a couple of talented wingers and he'll be fine.

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05-25-2012, 06:16 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Ementy View Post
Kesler - Luongo - Edler

for

Nugent Hopkins - Khabibulin
Take ouy Khabi and add the 1st overall and the Canucks will throw in there first.

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05-25-2012, 06:45 PM
  #197
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Vigneault is a jack***, and Kesler is a crybaby. It shouldn't be a shock to anyone if this starts to snowball.

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05-25-2012, 06:47 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
Take ouy Khabi and add the 1st overall and the Canucks will throw in there first.
I don't think the difference is a first overall pick.

I'd throw in our second rounder, but habby is a must for a cap dump.

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05-25-2012, 06:54 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Ementy View Post
Kesler - Luongo - Edler

for

Nugent Hopkins - Khabibulin
I see a vital problem here; there are only so many offensive zone starts to go around on one team...

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05-25-2012, 07:40 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two4Instigating View Post
My trade proposal:

Kesler, Raymond and Ballard

for

Nash, Dorsett and Tyutin
The principle endeavor of a Nash trade would be to trade him and him alone for help at forward and perhaps fill out other depth along the way. That means we'd likely ask for Kesler, Raymond, and a 1st for Nash by himself - and that's if we've given up on fleecing some other teams. We have zero use for Ballard, and would NOT be giving up our #2 defenseman and one of our team's most important leaders (who we resigned less than half a week ago) as throw-ins.

There is no chance this deal gets even briefly considered.

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