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Old
05-25-2012, 08:16 AM
  #51
roboninja
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Vinny will never go anywhere. Mainly due to the fact this type of proposal gets flamed for being crap for a "star" (which is partially true), but it is really all you might be able to get for him. One of the worst contracts in the league right now. He is payed like the star he once was.

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Old
05-25-2012, 08:46 AM
  #52
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The OP is a terrible proposal, yes. But I can understand why most wouldn't want Lecavalier. This season, he posted his lowest PPG since the 2000-2001 season. Ideally, the centre Burke is looking for is somewhere between 22-26, that almost certainly won't happen and he'll have to settle for looking at centres aged 27-30. Lecavalier is 32. I don't like that he's bad on draws, means Kessel and Lupul will have to spend more time chasing the puck in the D zone, not liking the look of that. And VL's production does not justify his 7.7 cap hit, especially for a team that will have to hand out big raises to Kessel and Lupul soon.

Call it nitpicking, but selling off young assets for ageing players on the decline is a mistake made by many Leaf GMs of old. A little patience would do the Leafs good.

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Old
05-25-2012, 09:57 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Well if i had my pick of the litter, i would sell the farm for (and yes i'm including Gardiner, the 1st plus plus plus) for guys like Spezza, Staal, Tavares, Stammer,Getzlaf and others of their ilk. Lecavalier i would take even with his contract. The reality is, no team is going to trade us a #1C. I say, stay the course and hope to pick a C at #5. To the OP, ya, anyone who tries to justify this being bad for TO needs a good baby-shaking.
I would be willing to sell the farm as well. People may cry overpayment, but in reality top centers are just very rarely available. I don't see it being an overpayment if there are only a handful traded every decade. Just have to more accurately assess where the team is at to see if it is worth doing, the team was severely misjudged during that Kessel trade.

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Old
05-25-2012, 10:57 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
To Tor:

Vinny Lecavalier

To TB:

Connolly/Lombardi
Komisarek
4th

Lots of cap coming both ways but Lombardi, Connolly and Komi all come off the books within this season or next while Vinny is signed for a long time. Just looking for a reclamation project similar to the Phaneuf deal.
Yikes! This is absolutely horrible from a Lightning perspective!

If the Leafs are going to try to acquire Lecavalier, it's likely going to take the best assets they have (and can't afford to give up), not utter garbage like Connolly, Lombardi, and Komisarek.

The only way the Leafs are going to get rid of these garbage players is by letting their horrendous contracts run out, which will happen at the end of next season with Connolly, Lomabardi, and Armstrong. If the Leafs can't buy-out Komisarek, they'll be stuck with him for an additional season.

Personally, I wouldn't try to acquire Lecavalier, simply because I don't like the length of his contract. Some may see it as a form of cap-stability, whereas I much prefer cap-flexibilty.

Besides.. the Leafs aren't going to be contenders anytime soon anyway. Why gut the farm now? Because that's what it's going to take to fill the #1 center hole.. if you try to fill it via a trade.. regardless as to whom the intended target is.

The Leafs will be better off in the long run if they just bite the bullet on these awful contracts now and continue to build primarily through the Draft. They also need to drastically cut down on the stupid signings/acquistions front.

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Old
05-25-2012, 11:21 AM
  #55
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Let's see a 2nd line centre who makes 8m a year for the nest 50 years how about we take him for your 1st round pick

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Old
05-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
Another example of Leafs fans proposing scraps for a star.
a fading star is what you meant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bang Bang View Post
Awesome. I'm glad we could agree.

The Leafs don't want or need a 32 year old who is past him prime and is now only putting up 50-60 points with a $7.73 cap hit FOR THE NEXT 8 YEARS!!!
this +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Just so all you Leaf fans are clear... this is Vinny's stats for the last 5 seasons over an 82 game season:


Games PlayedGoalsAssistsPoints
82314374

If that's not recent enough for you, last 2 years:

Games PlayedGoalsAssistsPoints
82303665

Lecavalier is a very good player. His contract sucks because it's so long, but this proposal is absolutely laughable. The fact that Leaf fans are saying no when you desperately need a center (and have needed one for years) is just typical Leaf Fan Mentality.

Brutal.

EDIT: This guy gets it:




You guys just don't have the assets to get a top-end, young, properly paid, center - unless you're moving Kessel which I am quite sure you are not.

Get with the program.
Extrapolating Vinny's last two years is a little silly no? there is nothing to say that he would have produced at the same rate during those missed contests. While Lecavalier may again play 82 games in a season(which I have reservations about) his point production per game is steadily declining:

07/08 1.14
08/09 0.87
09/10 0.85
10/11 0.83
11/12 0.77

that is a disturbing trend my friend

Vancouver just shut down Mr Yzerman flat, when he mentioned that Vinny had to be a part of any deal for Luongo. As we have come to understand isn't a true #1 goaltender one of Tampa's most (to use your term) "desperate needs"

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Old
05-25-2012, 03:10 PM
  #57
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Tampa wants to keep Vinny.. I don't know how else to say it.

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Old
05-25-2012, 03:12 PM
  #58
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To Tampa - Kulemin, Bozak, Reimer & 2nd in 2012
To Toronto - Lecavalkier

Fair?

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Old
05-25-2012, 03:16 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
a fading star is what you meant



this +1



Extrapolating Vinny's last two years is a little silly no? there is nothing to say that he would have produced at the same rate during those missed contests. While Lecavalier may again play 82 games in a season(which I have reservations about) his point production per game is steadily declining:

07/08 1.14
08/09 0.87
09/10 0.85
10/11 0.83
11/12 0.77

that is a disturbing trend my friend

Vancouver just shut down Mr Yzerman flat, when he mentioned that Vinny had to be a part of any deal for Luongo. As we have come to understand isn't a true #1 goaltender one of Tampa's most (to use your term) "desperate needs"
Do you have a Source for this? When did SFY do this?

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Old
05-25-2012, 03:16 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik Kristal View Post
To Tampa - Kulemin, Bozak, Reimer & 2nd in 2012
To Toronto - Lecavalkier

Fair?
Nope. No thanks. Vinny is a lifer. His contract is terrible yes but we are ok with it in Tampa.

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Old
05-25-2012, 04:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Astraphobia Catalyst View Post
Do you have a Source for this? When did SFY do this?
Would absolutely bet that he never said that. Some media person might have suggested that that would have to happen for Luongo to end up in Tampa but it didn't come from Yzerman.

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Old
05-25-2012, 04:40 PM
  #62
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Vinny has had 12 straight seasons of at least 20 goals. He's consistent.

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Old
05-25-2012, 06:12 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
a fading star is what you meant



this +1



Extrapolating Vinny's last two years is a little silly no? there is nothing to say that he would have produced at the same rate during those missed contests. While Lecavalier may again play 82 games in a season(which I have reservations about) his point production per game is steadily declining:

07/08 1.14
08/09 0.87
09/10 0.85
10/11 0.83
11/12 0.77

that is a disturbing trend my friend

Vancouver just shut down Mr Yzerman flat, when he mentioned that Vinny had to be a part of any deal for Luongo. As we have come to understand isn't a true #1 goaltender one of Tampa's most (to use your term) "desperate needs"
Even at 0.77, he's still 69th in the league in points per game. Tied or below him are names like Evander Kane, Lucic, Perry, Nash, Williams, Pavelski, Fleischmann, Semin, Fisher, Callahan, Weiss, Briere, Getzlaf, Ryan, Havlat, Skinner, Backes, Heatley, Oshie, Benn, Horton, Grabovski, Plekanec, Landeskog, Doan, Kesler, Carter, Cammalleri, Ladd, M.Richards, Stepan, Derek Roy, and Hemsky.

Among centers, he's #25 in the league (aka. a #1 center) and guys who are within 0.03 Points per game of him include: Brad Richards, Patrick Kane, Mikko Koivu, Patrice Bergeron, and David Krejci.

He's expensive, but if he can hold his 0.77 then he'll be a good acquisition since you give nothing up in this trade.

Sure he might decline, that's the risk you take when you get a currently #1 C on the cheap. EDIT: And by on the cheap I mean for salary dumps.

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Old
05-26-2012, 12:05 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Even at 0.77, he's still 69th in the league in points per game. Tied or below him are names like Evander Kane, Lucic, Perry, Nash, Williams, Pavelski, Fleischmann, Semin, Fisher, Callahan, Weiss, Briere, Getzlaf, Ryan, Havlat, Skinner, Backes, Heatley, Oshie, Benn, Horton, Grabovski, Plekanec, Landeskog, Doan, Kesler, Carter, Cammalleri, Ladd, M.Richards, Stepan, Derek Roy, and Hemsky.

Among centers, he's #25 in the league (aka. a #1 center) and guys who are within 0.03 Points per game of him include: Brad Richards, Patrick Kane, Mikko Koivu, Patrice Bergeron, and David Krejci.

He's expensive, but if he can hold his 0.77 then he'll be a good acquisition since you give nothing up in this trade.

Sure he might decline, that's the risk you take when you get a currently #1 C on the cheap. EDIT: And by on the cheap I mean for salary dumps.
69th in the league is pretty darn good no doubt, however not at 7.7 and certainly not 7.7 for the next 8 or so years

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Old
05-26-2012, 12:12 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ThunderRoad View Post
Would absolutely bet that he never said that. Some media person might have suggested that that would have to happen for Luongo to end up in Tampa but it didn't come from Yzerman.
exactly

the only way for Tampa to make the acquisition would be to free itself of the Lacavalier contract..........Gillis has apparently mentioned he would not be interested in that

so if that is indeed true then Yzerman would have(and I am extrapolating here) have mentioned that in prelims with vancouver

and again basing that on a certain reporter tv/radio who is known as a guy who scoops occasionally

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Old
05-26-2012, 12:42 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by chasespace View Post
Vinny has had 12 straight seasons of at least 20 goals. He's consistent.
Most expensive 20 goal scorer ever.

The deal in the op is ridiculous. I would take it and run as a Leafs fan.

I like him a lot, but let's not pretend Vinny is a superstar anymore. He might get paid like a top 5 player, but he's just not. Leafs are getting younger, they don't need an aging player, on the decline, with a massive cap hit.

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Old
05-26-2012, 01:21 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
Most expensive 20 goal scorer ever.

The deal in the op is ridiculous. I would take it and run as a Leafs fan.

I like him a lot, but let's not pretend Vinny is a superstar anymore. He might get paid like a top 5 player, but he's just not. Leafs are getting younger, they don't need an aging player, on the decline, with a massive cap hit.
Actually we do need an aging superstar on the decline. They're usually cheap, have been around the league, and know what it takes to stay at the highest level of competition (albeit not in recent years.) Arguably one of the biggest problems last year was the Leafs youth and inexperience which severely hampered their ability to deal with the massive slump in February.

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Old
05-26-2012, 02:35 AM
  #68
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Seriously?? You do realize that Lecavalier is still a star player, right? He may not be a 50 goal, 100 point player anymore, but he's definitely worth more than connolly or lombardi and komisarek and a 4th freaking round pick. Wow.

I don't often criticize trade proposals, btw. I try to be nice. This is just too much though.

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Old
05-26-2012, 06:48 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
exactly

the only way for Tampa to make the acquisition would be to free itself of the Lacavalier contract..........Gillis has apparently mentioned he would not be interested in that

so if that is indeed true then :Yzerman would have(and I am extrapolating here) have mentioned that in prelims with vancouver

and again basing that on a certain reporter tv/radio who is known as a guy who scoops occasionally
Stop spouting bs. Tell us who it is. I live in Van but I am a Tampa fan. So tell me the name of this reporter please. Is it Asland from Narnia? Because this sounds like some fairytale crap.

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Old
05-26-2012, 07:08 AM
  #70
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This actually the worst trade proposal I have ever read on a hockey forum.

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Old
05-26-2012, 07:35 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
To Tor:

Vinny Lecavalier

To TB:

Connolly/Lombardi
Komisarek
4th

Lots of cap coming both ways but Lombardi, Connolly and Komi all come off the books within this season or next while Vinny is signed for a long time. Just looking for a reclamation project similar to the Phaneuf deal.
We all know Lecavalier's contract is horrible for what he has done recently but at least the guy is still a valuable player and can come up big in big games. Why would a team that values a player's contribution trade him for those players who are basically a complete waste of cap space with no contribution on the ice except for to make your team worse.

These type of proposals actually make me angry sometimes because they are so unrealistic and I wasted my time reading and responding to it

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Old
05-26-2012, 09:58 AM
  #72
therealkoho
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Stop spouting bs. Tell us who it is. I live in Van but I am a Tampa fan. So tell me the name of this reporter please. Is it Asland from Narnia? Because this sounds like some fairytale crap.

the Kypper, so no it's not bs

and keep your insults to yourself, if you want to act like you're 13, then go post on the NHL team sites, lots of kiddies in there to stick your tongue out at

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Old
05-26-2012, 12:52 PM
  #73
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the Kypper, so no it's not bs

and keep your insults to yourself, if you want to act like you're 13, then go post on the NHL team sites, lots of kiddies in there to stick your tongue out at
Kyperios? Ha, that guy is just horrible. And pull out a source. Something that actually proves that he actually said that. All you have said is that it was is was him. Like I can say The Leafs are going to move to Regina and change the name of the team. I heard it from MacKenzie. Without proof, it is just crap. So I will keep insulting and calling crap on someone who cannot prove anything, and just destroy's a thread by adding lies to the discussion.

EDIT: I went on his twitter, back tracked to March. where his only mention of Tampa even happens. Its about the head shot on Connolly. Checked his blog editorial thing on sportsnet's website. Nothing no mention of anything you have said. I also did a broad Google search to see if he mentioned anything about Vinny, and still nothing. So provide a source


Last edited by stryfe604: 05-26-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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Old
05-26-2012, 01:14 PM
  #74
therealkoho
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Kyperios? Ha, that guy is just horrible. And pull out a source. Something that actually proves that he actually said that. All you have said is that it was is was him. Like I can say The Leafs are going to move to Regina and change the name of the team. I heard it from MacKenzie. Without proof, it is just crap. So I will keep insulting and calling crap on someone who cannot prove anything, and just destroy's a thread by adding lies to the discussion.

EDIT: I went on his twitter, back tracked to March. where his only mention of Tampa even happens. Its about the head shot on Connolly. Checked his blog editorial thing on sportsnet's website. Nothing no mention of anything you have said. I also did a broad Google search to see if he mentioned anything about Vinny, and still nothing. So provide a source
as I said radio

there is a Canucks writer talking about it as well, so it's not isolated

I'll ask you again to stop acting like a 13 year old, keep the nonsense to yourself

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Old
05-26-2012, 01:28 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
as I said radio
Then provide a link. Most talk radio shows(that aren't hacks) provide recordings of previous shows on their website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
there is a Canucks writer talking about it as well, so it's not isolated
Again, you need to provide a link.


I think you're full of it, Yzerman has already said he won't be trying to trade V4.
Quote:
I'm not going to go out and start shopping Vinny Lecavalier around
Link

See how that works? I claim something and back it up with a reviewable source.

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