Well that's the point. When Nash is 35 and still being paid $8.2M in real money, he will be untradeable. And that destroys a rebuilding team.
The reality is that we won't always be a cap team, and we need to think ahead to avoid screwing this franchise over long term.
I'm not sure what point you think I'm making. I don't think it will be an issue financially and if it is then the team is in the tank anyways.
Any player is tradeable. You just might lose talent on the deal. Happens all the time. Not something one should plan on, but by then 8 mil won't be that high of a salary.
And he'd be 30 or 31 when you'd think about trading him, which is still 1 year younger than Thornton was this year. Thornton will be 34 at the end of his contract, Nash will be 33 during the last year of his contract.
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History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
That's assuming that the team hangs on to him for that long. We only kept Heatley for a couple years when it was supposedly untradeable. Nash is someone they can move at 31 when his NMC expires and is likely still a very good player. Someone will bite on it just because he's a star player and likely still productive at that point because while he may not be what people make him out to be, he is not in a worse way than Heatley.
Heater's contract doesn't last until the end of time.
The point is, we can't assume that he'll still be productive, we can't assume that "someone will bite". There are plenty of directions that the Sharks could go in, and adopting someone else's failed franchise player is not the right one.
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa
I'm not sure what point you think I'm making. I don't think it will be an issue financially and if it is then the team is in the tank anyways.
Any player is tradeable. You just might lose talent on the deal. Happens all the time. Not something one should plan on, but by then 8 mil won't be that high of a salary.
And he'd be 30 or 31 when you'd think about trading him, which is still 1 year younger than Thornton was this year. Thornton will be 34 at the end of his contract, Nash will be 33 during the last year of his contract.
It's very possible to be a budget team and make some noise in the playoffs.
So the plan is to trade for Nash for two or three years and then flip him out? He didn't even score 60 points this season and he's at $7.8M. People are flipping out enough about Marleau's 65 point season at $6.9M, and Marleau has defensive play and versatility to boot. If we're lucky, Nash is a 60 point player at age 31. If we're only giving up Clowe, Niemi, and a mid first to get him when he's a 60 point player on this contract at age 28, what kind of return do you imagine we'd get back when he's 31 and on an escalating salary so even a Florida won't want him (Campbell type situation). Worst case scenario, we have Scott Gomez 2.0 on our hands. And he'll have an NMC, which further restricts where we'd be able to trade him. And if he's still buddy-buddy with Joe in a non-pressure market, why would he ever waive to leave?
Heater's contract doesn't last until the end of time.
The point is, we can't assume that he'll still be productive, we can't assume that "someone will bite". There are plenty of directions that the Sharks could go in, and adopting someone else's failed franchise player is not the right one.
It's very possible to be a budget team and make some noise in the playoffs.
So the plan is to trade for Nash for two or three years and then flip him out? He didn't even score 60 points this season and he's at $7.8M. People are flipping out enough about Marleau's 65 point season at $6.9M, and Marleau has defensive play and versatility to boot. If we're lucky, Nash is a 60 point player at age 31. If we're only giving up Clowe, Niemi, and a mid first to get him when he's a 60 point player on this contract at age 28, what kind of return do you imagine we'd get back when he's 31 and on an escalating salary so even a Florida won't want him (Campbell type situation). Worst case scenario, we have Scott Gomez 2.0 on our hands. And he'll have an NMC, which further restricts where we'd be able to trade him. And if he's still buddy-buddy with Joe in a non-pressure market, why would he ever waive to leave?
Everything you post on this subject uses worst case scenario's, including Nash at 35 when he won't even be that age by the end of his contract. I get it. You don't think he's very good and he costs a lot and playing on the Sharks won't change any of that. He will quickly descend into mediocrity.
I think he might make a difference and not slide into obscurity. That's why I won't freak out if a decent deal is made to bring him here. I'm not a DW hater though and think he's an excellent GM, so I'm probably more inclined to trust his judgement, whatever that ends up being.
Heater's contract doesn't last until the end of time.
The point is, we can't assume that he'll still be productive, we can't assume that "someone will bite". There are plenty of directions that the Sharks could go in, and adopting someone else's failed franchise player is not the right one.
When they acquired Heatley, he had five years left on his contract. If they acquire Nash, there will be six years. That's not a big difference. Plus, it's mitigated by the fact that the Sharks would theoretically acquire Nash at a younger age.
If the team can get a team to take Heatley after a poor year and damn near the same large contract with at least one year of a big salary payout, the team can get someone to take Nash.
Everything you post on this subject uses worst case scenario's, including Nash at 35 when he won't even be that age by the end of his contract. I get it. You don't think he's very good and he costs a lot and playing on the Sharks won't change any of that. He will quickly descend into mediocrity.
I think he might make a difference and not slide into obscurity. That's why I won't freak out if a decent deal is made to bring him here. I'm not a DW hater though and think he's an excellent GM, so I'm probably more inclined to trust his judgement, whatever that ends up being.
We shall agree to disagree on the subject of Nash, but I'll agree with you on DW. He knows he has Howsen where he wants him; I have no doubt that if the Sharks do get Nash, it will be for silly underpayment, like the Heatley deal (Heater at the time was much better than Nash is now, and Milan was coming off another brutal playoffs). I trust DW to improve the team. I just think it would be better to stand pat.
Of course, this is all just speculation because everyone's going home for the long weekend and I'm bored as ****.
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd
When they acquired Heatley, he had five years left on his contract. If they acquire Nash, there will be six years. That's not a big difference. Plus, it's mitigated by the fact that the Sharks would theoretically acquire Nash at a younger age.
If the team can get a team to take Heatley after a poor year and damn near the same large contract with at least one year of a big salary payout, the team can get someone to take Nash.
I'm kind of a Heatley homer, probably not the best idea to make that comparison.
Anyway, I'm sick of talking Nash to death. We'll just wait and see.
I am amazed at how unaware people are of Nash's talent. That guy is a top 5 sniper in the league. He is twice the player Heatley is. I would be willing to bet 1,000's that he scores 45-50 goals on the Sharks. He is exactly what this team needs. His contract definitely scares me and I am not sure what it will take to get him. That being said people who are saying Nash is ordinary or overrated need to learn more about talent. Nash would be the best offensive player on the Sharks immediately.
We shall agree to disagree on the subject of Nash, but I'll agree with you on DW. He knows he has Howsen where he wants him; I have no doubt that if the Sharks do get Nash, it will be for silly underpayment, like the Heatley deal (Heater at the time was much better than Nash is now, and Milan was coming off another brutal playoffs). I trust DW to improve the team. I just think it would be better to stand pat.
LOL! No way Heatley was better when we got him than Nash is now,and don't even compare the 39 goals he had to Nash's 30. Nash as player is much better than Heatley. Heatley does not create his own offense the way Nash does. Nash is also a better skater. He will not fade like Heatley has.
I am amazed at how unaware people are of Nash's talent. That guy is a top 5 sniper in the league. He is twice the player Heatley is. I would be willing to bet 1,000's that he scores 45-50 goals on the Sharks. He is exactly what this team needs. His contract definitely scares me and I am not sure what it will take to get him. That being said people who are saying Nash is ordinary or overrated need to learn more about talent. Nash would be the best offensive player on the Sharks immediately.
There's this guy named Joe Thornton that would disagree with that statement... We all though Heater would score 60 on the Sharks, what makes you think Nash will be different? And don't say "well Joe and Nash played on the same team 7 years ago", because that doesn't fly with me.
There's this guy named Joe Thornton that would disagree with that statement... We all though Heater would score 60 on the Sharks, what makes you think Nash will be different? And don't say "well Joe and Nash played on the same team 7 years ago", because that doesn't fly with me.
Rick Nash is a better overall player than Heatley. Better skater, more physical, more creative(which this team needs). I like Heatley as well but his best offensive years were in Ottawa playing on a line with Spezza and Alfie, which was arguably the best line in the league at the time. Rick Nash has never played with that type of linemates like Heater has. I would agree that if Nash was in SJ playing with Joe he would put up 40g.
Something Heater never accomplished while he was here
I am amazed at how unaware people are of Nash's talent. That guy is a top 5 sniper in the league. He is twice the player Heatley is. I would be willing to bet 1,000's that he scores 45-50 goals on the Sharks. He is exactly what this team needs. His contract definitely scares me and I am not sure what it will take to get him. That being said people who are saying Nash is ordinary or overrated need to learn more about talent. Nash would be the best offensive player on the Sharks immediately.
How can you say a player is a top 5 sniper, is not overrated and then say his contract scares you in the same paragraph?
There's this guy named Joe Thornton that would disagree with that statement... We all though Heater would score 60 on the Sharks, what makes you think Nash will be different? And don't say "well Joe and Nash played on the same team 7 years ago", because that doesn't fly with me.
Nash is a much more talented player. Heatley was really just a shot. Nash can skate, handle the puck and create his own offense.
When teams play Columbus they literally just have to focus on Nash. When teams play the Sharks they have to focus on 4-5 guys. Nash will not only have more space in SJ, he will create more space for current Sharks.
How can you say a player is a top 5 sniper, is not overrated and then say his contract scares you in the same paragraph?
I personally don't like long contracts regardless of the player, especially at 8M per year.
Maybe this will put it more in perspective, I would have no problem with Nash getting paid 8M for 6 more years as the current player he is, but injuries and many things can happen over 6 season.
Nash is a much more talented player. Heatley was really just a shot. Nash can skate, handle the puck and create his own offense.
When teams play Columbus they literally just have to focus on Nash. When teams play the Sharks they have to focus on 4-5 guys. Nash will not only have more space in SJ, he will create more space for current Sharks.
You know what Nash will also have to deal with? Not getting to take 300 shots a year because unlike the Blue Jackets, the Sharks have many other goalscorers that need the puck as well. Even within the team this season, you can see the dynamics shifting. Putting Pavelski on the top line takes shots away from Marleau, when Pavs could produce the same amount of shots on the 3rd line.
Does anyone think that a forward on our team other than Thornton would have matched Nash's performance this season had they played on Columbus rather than the Sharks? If you do than I think you overrate our players.
Does anyone think that a forward on our team other than Thornton would have matched Nash's performance this season had they played on Columbus rather than the Sharks? If you do than I think you overrate our players.
Does anyone think that a forward on our team other than Thornton would have matched Nash's performance this season had they played on Columbus rather than the Sharks? If you do than I think you overrate our players.
Yes. Marleau and Pavelski would both, in their own way, have matched it. Pavelski likely would have surpassed it because of how he plays.
And the only reason why is that those guys would have had a lot more opportunities with the puck or in better situations than what they had this year. Those guys, this year, always got the toughest matchups and on a line where they aren't the ones creating the plays. Put them in a spot where they get the puck to play their game more, they will get more chances to score and convert on more of them.
I personally don't like long contracts regardless of the player, especially at 8M per year.
Maybe this will put it more in perspective, I would have no problem with Nash getting paid 8M for 6 more years as the current player he is, but injuries and many things can happen over 6 season.
Does that explain it?
Well, either you think a player is elite and should make 8m a season, or you don't. There's no being on the fence about it. When you sign that player, you're on the hook for the full amount. If Nash gets an ACL injury or whatever...still gotta pay him the remaining seasons unless he can't play anymore.
Very few players in the league are worth that kind of money. Nash is not one of them.
I may be wrong, but Nash strikes me as a guy who creates his own offense and may not play well with Thornton.
Before I get bombarded about their bromance in 2005, it was 2005 and Thornton is a much different player.
If the Sharks change their system in which Nash would be able to flourish, I'd support a trade for him.
This is exactly why i think he is a better player than Heatley. I think Nash would work better with Joe than Heater did also but its all just speculation unltill it really happens
I know some of you really do not want Nash, and some of you really do want Nash. If we could fetch Nash for a good price then I'm all for it. I'm very interested to hear about how DW will sweeten the offer for Nash.
Rick Nash would be highest paid player on this team by a significant margin, and nowhere near the best player. I think people are just looking forward to the excitement of signing a flashy name again, but if looked at objectively, I don't see it making much difference.
Rick Nash would be highest paid player on this team by a significant margin, and nowhere near the best player. I think people are just looking forward to the excitement of signing a flashy name again, but if looked at objectively, I don't see it making much difference.
Yep. I've been saying that since day one. Pass on Nash.
The only way we'll get Nash is via signifigant overpayment, and being stuck with one brutal contract. I love Nash as a player, I would love to have him, but dear gods no to that contract.
