HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Biggest flaw of Torts system

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-26-2012, 04:41 AM
  #1
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,513
vCash: 500
Biggest flaw of Torts system

IMO, the overuse of the stretch pass. Our breakout/transitional play was pedestrian all through the playoffs. Throwing pucks around the half wall, not using any poise with the puck from Dmen to the support from the wingers.

Our transition should have been more deliberate with the level of talent this team does not possess.

This is probably my biggest concern with Torts as a coach moving forward. I think he is stuck in a pre lockout transitional game. Teams will continue to exploit this.

Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 05:14 AM
  #2
MDL8981
Registered User
 
MDL8981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
IMO, the overuse of the stretch pass. Our breakout/transitional play was pedestrian all through the playoffs. Throwing pucks around the half wall, not using any poise with the puck from Dmen to the support from the wingers.

Our transition should have been more deliberate with the level of talent this team does not possess.

This is probably my biggest concern with Torts as a coach moving forward. I think he is stuck in a pre lockout transitional game. Teams will continue to exploit this.
Agreed. I dont mind using the stretch pass every now and then just to keep the defense honest. Kinda like in football where you want to throw the deep ball at least a few times a game, just so its in the back of the defense's head.

But for the stretch pass to be the major part of our breakout plan? Terrible. I mean what other team uses it? Nobody I know. We look like amateurs when we attempt to break out of our zone with regular passing and skating.

MDL8981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:54 AM
  #3
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,727
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Power (less) Play

BBKers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:56 AM
  #4
Nickmo82
Registered User
 
Nickmo82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, England
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
my main problem is that EVERY time they come up the ice they dump and chase. They quite end up with all 3 forwards below the goal line too. Mix it up a little. Get bodies in front. ya know?

Nickmo82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 07:06 AM
  #5
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,571
vCash: 500
Forward depth--someone who could play steady as a 6-7 defenseman. Rangers played 3 series against teams that had more depth to draw from--these teams all had size and grind on their bottom lines--more than we had anyway. Which brings to mind roles as well. Devils 4th line know exactly how they fit within their structure. Rangers 4th line is a conglomeration of who can't score and who isn't going well and throw in a d-man once in a while.

Torts doesn't like carrying 23 guys. IMO he should think about that again.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 07:42 AM
  #6
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,622
vCash: 500
Stretch pass.
I also really hate our collapsing method. There's no pressure on the puck carrier. Collapsing so much around the middle means you're not winning any races in the D zone, because the Opposition will always be much closer.

The offensive "strategy" is non-existent. And don't get me started on our POS Flowerplay.

Rangers Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 07:46 AM
  #7
Ryan McDonut
McD for Captain
 
Ryan McDonut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
giving the pointmen all day in the defensive zone

Ryan McDonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 07:54 AM
  #8
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,532
vCash: 500
Powerplay is the biggest flaw. If the Rangers had a powerplay that was to be feared, for one teams would be afraid to take penalties against them, and two they'd score a whole lot more goals.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 08:04 AM
  #9
Bugz
Registered User
 
Bugz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nantes, France
Country: France
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Devils 4th line know exactly how they fit within their structure. Rangers 4th line is a conglomeration of who can't score and who isn't going well and throw in a d-man once in a while.
This.
If the 3rd line is Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp), we have a problem (depth). But if forward depth allow them to form the 4th line...

Without any major trade, if the line-up for next year is something like that, the Rangers will be a lot tougher to play IMO :

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - another scoring forward (MZA ?, rookie ?, FA ?, trade ?)
Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp)

Bugz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 08:17 AM
  #10
Miller Time NYR
Wrong^
 
Miller Time NYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,793
vCash: 500
The dump and chase, it's all these guys know how to do, they look to do it on odd man rushes, the powerplay, basically every chance they get and their to stubborn at times to realize it doesn't work against teams that are quick on the backend or have a goalie like fatty that plays the puck ever oppurtunity he gets, we lost possession against the devils probably 8 times out of 10 after dumping it, and I don't remember any goals that came as a direct result of a dump n chase, all because. Only either has a set of balls is allowed to carry the puck in, IMO our biggest flaw which is relied upon way to much which brings me to my next point the dump and chase sets the whole offense up below the goal line and leads to terrible shots and opportunities, all u can do is throw the puck at the front of the net at a terrible angle and hope it hits something because of it doesn't and we've seen it before it can lead to an odd man rush against, but seriously somebody needs to realize that shooting from the outside of the circles and below them cuts off a HUGE part of the net and isn't exactly the greatest way IMO to score goals, it's like this team is allergic to taking the luck to the front of the net in front of the goalie and making it hard for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugz View Post
This.
If the 3rd line is Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp), we have a problem (depth). But if forward depth allow them to form the 4th line...

Without any major trade, if the line-up for next year is something like that, the Rangers will be a lot tougher to play IMO :

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - another scoring forward (MZA ?, rookie ?, FA ?, trade ?)
Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp)
I completely agree, but uk with tort'sone juggling and everchanging dog house the 4th line will never be a true 4 line it will be that conglomerate of guys who aren't scoring or playing well then u have 4th line guys playing 3rd line minutes and a 4th line that can't score or play as a tough grinding 4th line because u have a playmaker-grinder-tough guy with no chemistry or offensive chance, that leads to and overuse or the third (4th) line and a team that can't score for **** because were relying on the wrong guys to fill the wrong roles.


Last edited by Miller Time NYR: 05-26-2012 at 08:23 AM.
Miller Time NYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 08:20 AM
  #11
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,532
vCash: 500
1. Dump and Chase especially against teams who have goalies who can play the puck
2. Too many men deep behind the net
3. Blind passes from behind the net to nobody
4. Powerplay sucks
5. Not enough defensive pressure especially on the pointmen
6. Too many stretch passes to the point that they become predictable
7. Sitting on leads instead of going for the kill

Am I missing anything else?

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 08:28 AM
  #12
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
1. Dump and Chase especially against teams who have goalies who can play the puck
2. Too many men deep behind the net
3. Blind passes from behind the net to nobody
4. Powerplay sucks
5. Not enough defensive pressure especially on the pointmen
6. Too many stretch passes to the point that they become predictable
7. Sitting on leads instead of going for the kill

Am I missing anything else?
8. Too much Boyle.

Other than that, I think you hit the nail right on the head. The team NEEDS to learn to put games away, and I'm not talking about scoring into EN's with a minutes left. I'm talking about breaking a tie late in the third, less OT's, and getting that 2-goal lead. They let teams climb back into games all season long, and they let teams climb back into series in the playoffs. I hope they finally learn to win a game when leading a series too, because it got pathetic this year.

Rangers Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 08:31 AM
  #13
Tony D63
Tortsless Rangers
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,236
vCash: 500
I'm not the biggest fan of Torts. I hate the dumb and chase, blind passes, playing 4th line to much, benching Kreider for making a bad play in game 2 I think? And the "flower play"

Tony D63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 08:32 AM
  #14
Kreider Typical
flex
 
Kreider Typical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,548
vCash: 500
not sure if it's part of the system but my biggest problem with torts is player bias. guys like boyle, prust, del zotto, and staal playing despite having bad stretches, turnovers, or coverage lapses, or being down 2+ goals(in boyle/prust's case)... meanwhile guys like bickel, stralman, eminger, kreider, and stepan get severe ice time reduction when they make mistakes. in fact... del zotto gets more minutes when he screws up (first two goals in game 6 he failed his coverage).

another example is the sean avery, eric christensen situation--though i wouldn't be surprised if that was just a ref/discipline thing... but sean was surely a more consistent hockey player than christensen (especially when it came to off-sides )


otherwise...
crap forecheck this season
blocking shots increases likelihood of deflections and injuries. we have arguably the best goaltender in the league. he should be allowed to see shots.
pp (though i think that's sully's department)
does not change the offense EVER.
lines are screwy-- change too fast or don't change enough. seems like he just randomly throws guys out there
playing behind the net instead of the front
nobody screens the goalie
dump and chase/no end to end rushes
depth is a problem, but not really a system problem
refusal to bring in another assistant coach (or two)for another opinion on some things.
basically doesn't make any smart moves on offense. ever. no changes. no line counters. no real set plays. he's a bad coach in that aspect.
board work has sucked
does not allow guys to retaliate or try to sell a call. as respectful as it may be...it holds our team back.


to be fair some positives:
the guys like him.
everybody buys in
one of the best defensive teams in the league in terms of shot blocking
clutch time outs sometimes.
he responds to beer being spilled on him by chasing fans down with hockey sticks.
he cares a lot about the team.
guys follow him from organization to organization. (he got us richards!) basically everybody in the league speaks highly of the guy and wanted to play for him at some point.

Kreider Typical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 09:57 AM
  #15
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Forward depth--someone who could play steady as a 6-7 defenseman. Rangers played 3 series against teams that had more depth to draw from--these teams all had size and grind on their bottom lines--more than we had anyway. Which brings to mind roles as well. Devils 4th line know exactly how they fit within their structure. Rangers 4th line is a conglomeration of who can't score and who isn't going well and throw in a d-man once in a while.

Torts doesn't like carrying 23 guys. IMO he should think about that again.
This. Boyle and Prust are great fourth liners. They're subpar 3rd liners and they're awful 2nd liners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickmo82 View Post
my main problem is that EVERY time they come up the ice they dump and chase. They quite end up with all 3 forwards below the goal line too. Mix it up a little. Get bodies in front. ya know?
And this. My girlfriend must have heard me screaming at the TV dozens of times "you score from between the dots coming at the goalie, not throwing it blindly to the front from the corner!!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Power (less) Play
And of course this. I almost hope Sullivan gets the Calgary job so we can bring in someone who has an Adam Oates like pedigree on the PP to run our own.

Still, I have to admit I wasn't a huge fan of the Torts singing at the time - and several years later, there's no arguing that on balance the positives have outweighed the negatives.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 10:06 AM
  #16
Dangleberry
Registered User
 
Dangleberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
1. Dump and Chase especially against teams who have goalies who can play the puck
2. Too many men deep behind the net
3. Blind passes from behind the net to nobody
4. Powerplay sucks
5. Not enough defensive pressure especially on the pointmen
6. Too many stretch passes to the point that they become predictable
7. Sitting on leads instead of going for the kill

Am I missing anything else?
Thank you, I agree with all your points.

Dangleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 05:39 PM
  #17
Whoot Whoot
Biased-NYR-Homer
 
Whoot Whoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
IMO, the overuse of the stretch pass. Our breakout/transitional play was pedestrian all through the playoffs. Throwing pucks around the half wall, not using any poise with the puck from Dmen to the support from the wingers.

Our transition should have been more deliberate with the level of talent this team does not possess.

This is probably my biggest concern with Torts as a coach moving forward. I think he is stuck in a pre lockout transitional game. Teams will continue to exploit this.
This is another example of you thinking you know it all. This is so minor compared to the fact that the team was toast from being overplayed and overcoached. Transition play? Please.

Whoot Whoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:04 PM
  #18
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
This is another example of you thinking you know it all. This is so minor compared to the fact that the team was toast from being overplayed and overcoached. Transition play? Please.
LOL

So its not one of our largest problems? Our inability to move the puck territorially.

Please give me insights instead of insults. Or do you only have a cursory knowledge of the sport with simplistic bullet words like "overplayed" and "over coached."

Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:13 PM
  #19
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 17,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugz View Post
This.
If the 3rd line is Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp), we have a problem (depth). But if forward depth allow them to form the 4th line...

Without any major trade, if the line-up for next year is something like that, the Rangers will be a lot tougher to play IMO :

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - another scoring forward (MZA ?, rookie ?, FA ?, trade ?)
Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp)
Why aere Kreider and Stepan on the 3rd line and Dubinsky (especially) and Anisimov on the 2nd? Makes no sense.

SnowblindNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:17 PM
  #20
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
This is another example of you thinking you know it all. This is so minor compared to the fact that the team was toast from being overplayed and overcoached. Transition play? Please.
You know...when you can't Carry the puck out of your zone, and all you can do is try to chip it out 5X until you finally do, that only gives the other team the puck back. And then it repeats. Transition from defense to offense is very important. This team possesses none of it.

Rangers Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:20 PM
  #21
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
You know...when you can't Carry the puck out of your zone, and all you can do is try to chip it out 5X until you finally do, that only gives the other team the puck back. And then it repeats. Transition from defense to offense is very important. This team possesses none of it.
Be Quiet, you know it all.


Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:22 PM
  #22
NYR94
Registered User
 
NYR94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,723
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NYR94
McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto, and Stralman are all capable of carrying the the puck out of the zone. They could have been relied on to do that more often as opposed to the constant stretch passes. Bring all five skaters up the ice as a cohesive unit.

NYR94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:24 PM
  #23
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Despite losing the last 2 games, I was really impressed by the pinching capabilities by our defensemen. This really helped us control play for those two games.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:27 PM
  #24
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto, and Stralman are all capable of carrying the the puck out of the zone. They could have been relied on to do that more often as opposed to the constant stretch passes. Bring all five skaters up the ice as a cohesive unit.
That is what I was saying. At least try doing it once and a while.

Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2012, 06:27 PM
  #25
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Despite losing the last 2 games, I was really impressed by the pinching capabilities by our defensemen. This really helped us control play for those two games.
It also lead to oddman rushes and goals for the Devils.

Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.