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Old
05-25-2012, 12:22 AM
  #951
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It's not.
....

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05-25-2012, 12:26 AM
  #952
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What did you expect? It was some schmuck editing freaking Wikipedia.

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05-25-2012, 01:12 AM
  #953
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What did you expect? It was some schmuck editing freaking Wikipedia.
True but with the pirates I have to have something to be excited about.

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05-25-2012, 01:30 AM
  #954
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Yeah I figured it wouldn't be true, usually insiders on Twitter, ESPN, etc. report those things before they happen, even TIOPS would have an update, nothing about this though.

Besides, the person who edited those pages goofed, they said Youkilis would wear #20, that number is retired by the Pirates, and if it was a true Wikipedia edit because the trade was legit, the number would have probably been listed as "--"

I'm surprised Wikipedia had it up that long, usually false info gets deleted in a minute or so.

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05-25-2012, 07:50 AM
  #955
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Glad it's not true, because that would be mismanagement of a valuable asset. Not that I think Youk isn't worth Hanrahan, just that this team isn't one piece away from being a viable playoff team, it's 6-8 pieces away.

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05-25-2012, 11:00 AM
  #956
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Glad it's not true, because that would be mismanagement of a valuable asset. Not that I think Youk isn't worth Hanrahan, just that this team isn't one piece away from being a viable playoff team, it's 6-8 pieces away.
in fairness, a 30 year old MR reliever who can throw a max of 25 pitches and a 33 year old 1B are probably both "out" of this "plan."

They are not 6-8 pieces away from contending. They are 6-8 pieces away from being a solid all-around ball club. You don't need to be a solid all-around ball club to compete.

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05-25-2012, 01:39 PM
  #957
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McLouth DFA'd, Hague called up. It won't fix things, but at least it's a move.

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05-25-2012, 01:47 PM
  #958
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McLouth DFA'd, Hague called up. It won't fix things, but at least it's a move.
Kinda said it didn't work out lol.

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05-25-2012, 03:05 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
in fairness, a 30 year old MR reliever who can throw a max of 25 pitches and a 33 year old 1B are probably both "out" of this "plan."

They are not 6-8 pieces away from contending. They are 6-8 pieces away from being a solid all-around ball club. You don't need to be a solid all-around ball club to compete.
You need to have a solid all-around ballclub to be a viable playoff team, which is what I said. Hell, with the Cardinals in the division (every Cardinals starter has an OPS of .800 or better) you have to have a solid all-around team just to compete.

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Originally Posted by Johannes Climacus View Post
McLouth DFA'd, Hague called up. It won't fix things, but at least it's a move.
An improvement is better than nothing. A fix at this point would be a waste of resources anyway.

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05-25-2012, 03:22 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
You need to have a solid all-around ballclub to be a viable playoff team, which is what I said. Hell, with the Cardinals in the division (every Cardinals starter has an OPS of .800 or better) you have to have a solid all-around team just to compete.

yes to be a contender come playoff time but i think our definitions are different and I think expectations of many vary. I'd be cool with an 86-76 season which may not make us a "contender" but certainly in the "compete" category. I don't think adding Youk would do that either. Not claiming that. But I don't think we're 6-8 impact players away from being such.

especially not 6-8 outside players

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05-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #961
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yes to be a contender come playoff time but i think our definitions are different and I think expectations of many vary. I'd be cool with an 86-76 season which may not make us a "contender" but certainly in the "compete" category. I don't think adding Youk would do that either. Not claiming that. But I don't think we're 6-8 impact 2players away from being such.

especially not 6-8 outside players
What concerns me more is for all the publicity about how much money was spent on the draft the past few years (and face it the few million more they spent each year would not buy you a bench player, so was somewhat deceptive), how many trades for minor leaguers we made, their minors have little to show for it.

We all knew that this team would not be competitive this year, so why care about a few wins more or less? But the problem is except for Cole or Taillon, what is there to be excited about for the future? Oh some names can be thrown out there, but if anyone is genuinely excited about the collection of mediocrity in the minors, they are deluding themselves. And given the resources devoted, and what we have been told, thus far the results look alarming for the near and long term future.

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05-25-2012, 05:39 PM
  #962
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What concerns me more is for all the publicity about how much money was spent on the draft the past few years (and face it the few million more they spent each year would not buy you a bench player, so was somewhat deceptive), how many trades for minor leaguers we made, their minors have little to show for it.

We all knew that this team would not be competitive this year, so why care about a few wins more or less? But the problem is except for Cole or Taillon, what is there to be excited about for the future? Oh some names can be thrown out there, but if anyone is genuinely excited about the collection of mediocrity in the minors, they are deluding themselves. And given the resources devoted, and what we have been told, thus far the results look alarming for the near and long term future.
I don't think you understand the amount of minor league pitching we have. Most teams are hard pressed to find one guy with #1 starter potential and right now we have 3. The high spending in the draft has been the last 3 seasons max, this isn't the NHL. Some of these guys will spend 5+ years in the minors before even being included in the discussion of being called up. Cole is not so far away. We might see him climb the ranks to AAA this season and who knows after that but there are not going to be tangible results in 3 years no matter what.

We have climbed the ranks in terms of prospects quite heavily. Most people don't understand that before McCutchen, there were a few years where we did not have a single prospect with major league upside. To go from that to a top 15 system in 3 years its pretty spectacular. Like I mentioned before, we have 3 guys with Ace caliber potential which is not something to take lightly. Yes, we'll be extremely fortunate for those guys to actually develop, take it for what its worth right now.

The guys to hang our hats on right now are Taillon, Cole, Heredia, and Bell. Those are 4 top 50 specs. Thats a pretty good thing.

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05-25-2012, 05:47 PM
  #963
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McDonald has ace potential too. If this is a breakout and not just a hot streak for him, he's a #1 or #2 himself

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05-25-2012, 05:49 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
McDonald has ace potential too. If this is a breakout and not just a hot streak for him, he's a #1 or #2 himself
Agreed but as a 27 year old. He may be on the downside of his career if these specs come to fruition. Potentially a good to great back of the rotation guy if Heredia, Taillon and Cole all make it.

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05-25-2012, 06:17 PM
  #965
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Great effort by Walker on that grounder up the middle by Castro.

EDIT: Pedro singles, goes to 2nd on a Hague ground out. Barjas singles to
shallow RF, and Alvarez heads for home, and is safe only because of great
backdoor headfirst slide and sneaks the hand in avoiding the tag. Just a
super play by Pedro.

EDIT2: Burnett effective through 3, still 1-0 Buc's. Harrison and his .270 BA seems
like Bill Madlock compared to the rest of this lineup.

EDIT3:Haha, Blass called that one before it happened. Says the book on Pedro is throw soft stuff, soft stuff, soft stuff, get to strike 2, then throw the fastball way up high in the strike zone, and get the K. And that is exactly what happened on that AB. Pedro can't lay off that fastball at eye level.


Last edited by td_ice: 05-25-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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05-25-2012, 07:13 PM
  #966
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McDonald has ace potential too. If this is a breakout and not just a hot streak for him, he's a #1 or #2 himself
That's an exaggeration. He can be a solid 3, maybe a low end 2. Absolutely not a #1.

Keith Law actually got a question on this and said his potential is mid rotation guy.

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05-25-2012, 08:15 PM
  #967
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A guy with a mid-90s fastball and really good breaking stuff can definitely be a #2, IMO.

Interesting fact: in each the previous two seasons, A.J. Burnett's ERA through the end of May was below four.

EDIT: 3 batters, 3 Ks for Grilli in the 7th.


Last edited by Dread Pirate Roberts: 05-25-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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05-25-2012, 09:13 PM
  #968
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Pirates Baseball: 1-0 win with a mild heart attack..

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Old
05-25-2012, 09:31 PM
  #969
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Pirates Baseball: 1-0 win with a mild heart attack..
Yeah, wasn't the smoothest dismount, but Hanrahan gets it done.

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05-25-2012, 11:41 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
A guy with a mid-90s fastball and really good breaking stuff can definitely be a #2, IMO.

Interesting fact: in each the previous two seasons, A.J. Burnett's ERA through the end of May was below four.

EDIT: 3 batters, 3 Ks for Grilli in the 7th.
Your definition of a #2 is pretty loose; at least 2 plus pitches, average 3rd and average command is what I've typically seen. McDonald doesn't quite reach that or have the track record of demonstrating it. Also, he has a fb that has been averaging 91.8mph this year or slightly above average.

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05-26-2012, 12:08 AM
  #971
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The other thing with McDonald is that he often can't go more than 5 innings deep. I think you want a legit #1 or #2 man in your rotation to have a little more endurance than that. He can run out of steam very quickly, and the drop off is drastic.

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05-26-2012, 12:45 AM
  #972
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I personally think this pitch count stuff is ********. Either he can go deep or he can't THAT is what teaches endurance.

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05-26-2012, 09:20 AM
  #973
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The interesting thing this summer will be to see who goes in the fire sale. Burnett, Bedard, both?

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05-26-2012, 03:59 PM
  #974
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Mcdonald = #3. We have a bunch of those. Burnett and bedard and karstens too. There are only about 15 true aces. We have none of those. I dont think we have any of the next tier of pitcher either, though three of the four listed have the potential to look like #2s over a short span of time.

If both cole and taillon become aces then we will be in good shape, but odds are only one will reach full potential. Of course coles floor is probably something like aj burnetts career so that wouldnt be too bad.

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05-26-2012, 05:37 PM
  #975
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Your definition of a #2 is pretty loose; at least 2 plus pitches, average 3rd and average command is what I've typically seen. McDonald doesn't quite reach that or have the track record of demonstrating it. Also, he has a fb that has been averaging 91.8mph this year or slightly above average.
I've seen McDonald's slider, curve and change all rated as plus pitches. They're better pitches and he's throwing them more this year because he's controlling them better. You call his fast ball average, and two of this off-speed pitches plus pitches, notice that McDonald has improved his command, and you have a #2 pitcher, unless this is just a streak instead of a breakout and he regresses back to the guy with #2 stuff but doesn't throw it as well.

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