Stop saying europe, this idea doesnt involve europe, it involves, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Russia, Swizz, Czech and maybe one more country and that would be streching it. The only reason i keep hearing is money, money and money. I dont know about Russia, i can only speak about sweden but here we have something call hockeyculture. Traditions. History. Rivalries. Creating a "european league" would destroy all that. For what? Profit? Better players? It would be a huge blow for swedish hockey and its fans. So not worth it. At all.
We dont care about russia, your teams and its "honest resources". We dont want it. Besides, i can only see 3 swedish teams that have the potential for what you are talking about, that is Frölunda, malmö and Djurgården. They are the ones that could have 10k+ visitors per game. Theoretical that is, it will never happen irl.
I think its cool idea that clubteams from diffrent countries are playing against eachother, but only freindly games and tournament like ET.
I love the sentiment. But please, enjoy losing your best players to larger, more financially successful leagues that can draw more interest from fans.
In other words, enjoy losing Sundin, Forsberg, Naslund, Lidstrom, Lundqvist, Kronwall, OEL, etc.
You cannot retain them with an extremely small league that can afford peanuts and garners minimal interest from fans.
But hey, different values for different people. Enjoy derbies that pit apartment block 1 HC vs apartment block 2 HC, that feature unskilled laborers masquerading as players, that have six fans in attendance (including family and friends of players).
I love the sentiment. But please, enjoy losing your best players to larger, more financially successful leagues that can draw more interest from fans.
In other words, enjoy losing Sundin, Forsberg, Naslund, Lidstrom, Lundqvist, Kronwall, OEL, etc.
You cannot retain them with an extremely small league that can afford peanuts and garners minimal interest from fans.
But hey, different values for different people. Enjoy derbies that pit apartment block 1 HC vs apartment block 2 HC, that feature unskilled laborers masquerading as players, that have six fans in attendance (including family and friends of players).
Even this guy seem to get it and he's an american. Altho he does appear a little cranky but still.
We need rivalries to show interest in almost any sport, besides football obviously. And hockey just isn't big enough for the popularity to rely on anything besides that.
I love the sentiment. But please, enjoy losing your best players to larger, more financially successful leagues that can draw more interest from fans.
In other words, enjoy losing Sundin, Forsberg, Naslund, Lidstrom, Lundqvist, Kronwall, OEL, etc.
That has been the case for 20 years, it's not really a surprise or a problem. Why would it be now?
Quote:
You cannot retain them with an extremely small league that can afford peanuts and garners minimal interest from fans.
Water is wet. Again, this isn't exactly news to Swedish fans, we know we're a small country without the resources of North America or Russia, but does that have to mean we have to side with either of them?
Quote:
But hey, different values for different people. Enjoy derbies that pit apartment block 1 HC vs apartment block 2 HC, that feature unskilled laborers masquerading as players, that have six fans in attendance (including family and friends of players).
Yeah, this solidifies your argument and makes you appear like a proper mature person.
That has been the case for 20 years, it's not really a surprise or a problem. Why would it be now?
Water is wet. Again, this isn't exactly news to Swedish fans, we know we're a small country without the resources of North America or Russia, but does that have to mean we have to side with either of them?
Yeah, this solidifies your argument and makes you appear like a proper mature person.
I see that as long term problem. Many fans probably got used to it during past 20 years, but I'm not ok with all good Europeans playing in NHL and I see that as a long term goal for KHL, to get Europeans back to Europe to play for European fans. Of course not all of us are gonna watch them live just as we don't watch them live in NHL. But I'd much rather watch them in normal times.
I see that as long term problem. Many fans probably got used to it during past 20 years, but I'm not ok with all good Europeans playing in NHL and I see that as a long term goal for KHL, to get Europeans back to Europe to play for European fans. Of course not all of us are gonna watch them live just as we don't watch them live in NHL. But I'd much rather watch them in normal times.
I dont have problem if European plays NHL regularly. It is good for every hockey player. But another story is playing AHL/CHL etc. Why?? If I am good, I sign with NHL and after a few games I dont have any problem with NHL size rinks. I know why NHL makes this politics but I dont like it.
So, it is great that hockey players can choose their route. They did not have it 10 years ago. If a played wanted to achieve something (and earn more money) these times, he had to go to NA (and play minors to proove attitude, desire etc). Now, player can develop at home (until 21-24), then signs in KHL and maybe later in NHL (great example Cervenka).
Most important question is this one. Why should euro leagues be NHL feeders forever??
I see that as long term problem. Many fans probably got used to it during past 20 years, but I'm not ok with all good Europeans playing in NHL and I see that as a long term goal for KHL, to get Europeans back to Europe to play for European fans. Of course not all of us are gonna watch them live just as we don't watch them live in NHL. But I'd much rather watch them in normal times.
Personally I'd rather see the best swedish players in teams like New York Rangers or Detroit Red Wings rather than Magnitogorsk or Minsk.
Personally I'd rather see the best swedish players in teams like New York Rangers or Detroit Red Wings rather than Magnitogorsk or Minsk.
I know. And majority of people would say the same thing as you did. I just pointed out my opinion as I don't care so much about names of the clubs. The location matters more to me.
@zorz. 20 years? Swedes have populated the NHL way before 1992.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz
I know. And majority of people would say the same thing as you did. I just pointed out my opinion as I don't care so much about names of the clubs. The location matters more to me.
In sweden there is no separation between these two things.
Sweden has developed fine among superpowers, military alliances, ideological battles and recessions nobody have any reason to worry about SEL both short and long term just because of temporary rubles. Swedish hockey is in fine shape and us losing players to the NHL isn't a big deal. Skellefteå for instance takes pride in being a steeping stone club that can attract fringe players who they can develop for the NHL and they "happily" let players go if they as an organization succed in develop an NHL regular (Or KHL as with Lehtonen and Warg, although the KHL option is stricly about $ for swedes, the NHL is attractive due to about sixty-seven more reasons)
Even this guy seem to get it and he's an american. Altho he does appear a little cranky but still.
We need rivalries to show interest in almost any sport, besides football obviously. And hockey just isn't big enough for the popularity to rely on anything besides that.
And what, new rivalries can never be forged? Is it utterly inconceivable that Stockholm could form a rivalry with Helsinki? It seems like in every single other sport new rivalries are forged every now and then. Are Swedes somehow impervious to the formation of new rivalries?
And what, new rivalries can never be forged? Is it utterly inconceivable that Stockholm could form a rivalry with Helsinki? It seems like in every single other sport new rivalries are forged every now and then. Are Swedes somehow impervious to the formation of new rivalries?
Swedish rivalries are usually about more than hockey. I find it very hard to belive that a Swedish team would be able to become rivals with a team outside of Sweden... Maybe some Finnish teams that are located in towns close to Sweden, but a team far away in Russia? Nope.
@zorz. 20 years? Swedes have populated the NHL way before 1992.
In sweden there is no separation between these two things.
Sweden has developed fine among superpowers, military alliances, ideological battles and recessions nobody have any reason to worry about SEL both short and long term just because of temporary rubles. Swedish hockey is in fine shape and us losing players to the NHL isn't a big deal. Skellefteå for instance takes pride in being a steeping stone club that can attract fringe players who they can develop for the NHL and they "happily" let players go if they as an organization succed in develop an NHL regular (Or KHL as with Lehtonen and Warg, although the KHL option is stricly about $ for swedes, the NHL is attractive due to about sixty-seven more reasons)
I said 20 years just because Lugaid said 20 years, everybody gets the point. The rest - as I said, I don't care about club names or NHL history/prestige. If I can choose to watch the best European players playing for NY Rangers at 2am or playing for Dynamo Minsk at 7pm, I go with the latter. But I completely understand that is minority opinion.
And what, new rivalries can never be forged? Is it utterly inconceivable that Stockholm could form a rivalry with Helsinki? It seems like in every single other sport new rivalries are forged every now and then. Are Swedes somehow impervious to the formation of new rivalries?
Maybe Djurgården and AIK could form a rivalry with a Helsinki team. But put for Example Djurgården and AIK to one club called Stockholm, would never work, if that is what you meant
Maybe Djurgården and AIK could form a rivalry with a Helsinki team. But put for Example Djurgården and AIK to one club called Stockholm, would never work, if that is what you meant
You could just place a new KHL (or United Hockey Europe or whatever, the name itself is not of importance) Stockholm hockey club in Stockholm.
If the quality of the league is like the KHL is right now (by far the best in Europe), then that hockey club would sit atop the hockey pyramid in Stockholm.
Essentially it would be similar to how the CHL functions in Canada relative to the NHL when looking at how Djurgarden and AIK would function relative to the KHL hockey club.
In many places, the CHL (OHL + QMJHL + WHL) have great attendance and rivalries that remain. However, this could simply be another layer -- a more professional layer -- to the hockey pyramid in Sweden.
The only markets in Sweden that could support a KHL (or whatever it would be called once more non-Soviet bloc teams are included and it becomes less Russian) team would probably be Stockholm, Gothenburg and perhaps Malmo.
I'd like a pan-European league with perhaps 16 teams, 4 divisions, 2 conferences.
Eastern Conference
Division A (Russian):
- Moscow
- St. Petersburg
- Kazan
- Omsk
Division B (East-Central):
- Prague
- Bratislava
- Riga
- Minsk
Western Conference
Division C (Nordic):
- Stockholm
- Gothenburg
- Helsinki
- Oslo (or Malmo)
Division D (West-Central):
- Berlin
- Cologne (or Hamburg)
- Zurich
- Bern
And there's obviously room for much expansion. Ufa, Zagreb, Malmo/Oslo, Hamburg/Cologne in the four divisions respectively could serve as potential expansion sites.
You could just place a new KHL (or United Hockey Europe or whatever, the name itself is not of importance) Stockholm hockey club in Stockholm.
If the quality of the league is like the KHL is right now (by far the best in Europe), then that hockey club would sit atop the hockey pyramid in Stockholm.
Essentially it would be similar to how the CHL functions in Canada relative to the NHL when looking at how Djurgarden and AIK would function relative to the KHL hockey club.
In many places, the CHL (OHL + QMJHL + WHL) have great attendance and rivalries that remain. However, this could simply be another layer -- a more professional layer -- to the hockey pyramid in Sweden.
The only markets in Sweden that could support a KHL (or whatever it would be called once more non-Soviet bloc teams are included and it becomes less Russian) team would probably be Stockholm, Gothenburg and perhaps Malmo.
I'd like a pan-European league with perhaps 16 teams, 4 divisions, 2 conferences.
Eastern Conference
Division A (Russian):
- Moscow
- St. Petersburg
- Kazan
- Omsk
Division B (East-Central):
- Prague
- Bratislava
- Riga
- Minsk
Western Conference
Division C (Nordic):
- Stockholm
- Gothenburg
- Helsinki
- Oslo (or Malmo)
Division D (West-Central):
- Berlin
- Cologne (or Hamburg)
- Zurich
- Bern
And there's obviously room for much expansion. Ufa, Zagreb, Malmo/Oslo, Hamburg/Cologne in the four divisions respectively could serve as potential expansion sites.
You don't understand the European sports culture. You can't simply "place a new team" to an area where market is already established,
let alone friggin Stockholm, where AIK and DIF (and Hammarby) supporters are one the craziest in Northern Europe.
People don't support a club just because it plays on a higher level, people apreciate their clubs traditions and heritage, which is passed down in the family.
Seriousley what do you think would be more popular, Djurgårdens Idrottsförening, a club founded in 1891, known to every person interrested in sports in Sweden,
or the Stockholm Eagles, Indians whatever, founded in 2012? People hate plastic clubs in Europe.
Stockholm Götreborg and Malmö playing against each other could be some interest if all three ever got "city teams" but not any city in other countries. Not even in Finland. A swede's biggest enemy is another swede especially the ones in the closest town. As in if there's anyone here from ängelholm they can eat **** and die.
You seriously need a crash course in European fan and sports culture.
It is VERY team oriented (or club oriented might be a better word). In Sweden for example team and club is everything, and that new made up Stockholm team would not have a single supporter, not a single one. Not the Gothenburg or Malmo team either. You don't just make a team up from nothing and place it in a market where hard core fans are closely attached to their own teams and the rivalry between their teams (Durgarden, AIK and Hammarby in Stockhom for example). That idea is stone dead before it is even born. And if one of those teams (except Hammarby whose hockey team suck) would decide to split from the SEL and join a KHL division by them selfes, they would risk losing their fan base...and the team management would also risk being chased out of town..
And just so you get this right. With losing the fan base I don't mean that the fans would just quit the team and go for another club. They would just not attend the hockey games, probably just go watch the football (soccer) team instead (the clubs have teams in more than one sport). This infact has already happend in the 90:s when the clubs went "Americanized", thinking more on revenue, "show" and image than on the hockey itself. Companies and sponsors was prioritized, the arenas turned into discos without taking the core fans into consideration. The fans felt that the clubs lost their souls and felt betrayed. The result? Empty silent stands...The teams had to work hard to get the fans back on their side again, finding the mix between the will of the fans and the demands of a more and more competitive market.
If the quality of the league is like the KHL is right now (by far the best in Europe), then that hockey club would sit atop the hockey pyramid in Stockholm.
Might as well join the Russian football league while we're at it.
Swedish fans are just that, not "consumers" who can be shifted around at will.
Attendance 4200 at a Division 4 game (Tier 6), which is the lowest possible in Sweden.
Calling it a beer league almost seems mean to beer leagues, because this might be even worst than a regular NA beer league.
Why would 4200 people attend a beer league game? because it's "their" team, they will support it until they die, no matter what tier the team plays in.
You could just place a new KHL (or United Hockey Europe or whatever, the name itself is not of importance) Stockholm hockey club in Stockholm.
If the quality of the league is like the KHL is right now (by far the best in Europe), then that hockey club would sit atop the hockey pyramid in Stockholm.
Essentially it would be similar to how the CHL functions in Canada relative to the NHL when looking at how Djurgarden and AIK would function relative to the KHL hockey club.
In many places, the CHL (OHL + QMJHL + WHL) have great attendance and rivalries that remain. However, this could simply be another layer -- a more professional layer -- to the hockey pyramid in Sweden.
The only markets in Sweden that could support a KHL (or whatever it would be called once more non-Soviet bloc teams are included and it becomes less Russian) team would probably be Stockholm, Gothenburg and perhaps Malmo.
I'd like a pan-European league with perhaps 16 teams, 4 divisions, 2 conferences.
Eastern Conference
Division A (Russian):
- Moscow
- St. Petersburg
- Kazan
- Omsk
Division B (East-Central):
- Prague
- Bratislava
- Riga
- Minsk
Western Conference
Division C (Nordic):
- Stockholm
- Gothenburg
- Helsinki
- Oslo (or Malmo)
Division D (West-Central):
- Berlin
- Cologne (or Hamburg)
- Zurich
- Bern
And there's obviously room for much expansion. Ufa, Zagreb, Malmo/Oslo, Hamburg/Cologne in the four divisions respectively could serve as potential expansion sites.
You can't simply come and dictate how swedish fans and clubs should work or behave. As you can see there is very little agreement with your asessment, and that's for a reason.
You could just place a new KHL (or United Hockey Europe or whatever, the name itself is not of importance) Stockholm hockey club in Stockholm.
If the quality of the league is like the KHL is right now (by far the best in Europe), then that hockey club would sit atop the hockey pyramid in Stockholm.
Essentially it would be similar to how the CHL functions in Canada relative to the NHL when looking at how Djurgarden and AIK would function relative to the KHL hockey club.
In many places, the CHL (OHL + QMJHL + WHL) have great attendance and rivalries that remain. However, this could simply be another layer -- a more professional layer -- to the hockey pyramid in Sweden.
The only markets in Sweden that could support a KHL (or whatever it would be called once more non-Soviet bloc teams are included and it becomes less Russian) team would probably be Stockholm, Gothenburg and perhaps Malmo.
I'd like a pan-European league with perhaps 16 teams, 4 divisions, 2 conferences.
Eastern Conference
Division A (Russian):
- Moscow
- St. Petersburg
- Kazan
- Omsk
Division B (East-Central):
- Prague
- Bratislava
- Riga
- Minsk
Western Conference
Division C (Nordic):
- Stockholm
- Gothenburg
- Helsinki
- Oslo (or Malmo)
Division D (West-Central):
- Berlin
- Cologne (or Hamburg)
- Zurich
- Bern
And there's obviously room for much expansion. Ufa, Zagreb, Malmo/Oslo, Hamburg/Cologne in the four divisions respectively could serve as potential expansion sites.
cool story bro, enjoy perennially being a collection of minor feeder leagues for North America. i certainly have no complaints with plucking the good ones and bringing them here.
cool story bro, enjoy perennially being a collection of minor feeder leagues for North America. i certainly have no complaints with plucking the good ones and bringing them here.
If the alternative was losing our teams then we have no problem giving them to you. No player (or a bunch of them) is bigger than the team. Enjoy!
what do you mean by losing teams? SEL would be the same as it is now even if some international league would have a team(s) in Sweden.
Yeah, but since it's not an alternative according to our sports culture to create new teams, the other one is for existing teams to join the league, which the fans are even more against.
especially the ones in the closest town. As in if there's anyone here from ängelholm they can eat **** and die.
